Civfanatica Resolution 01: Mutual Defence Treaties

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MHSoft

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During the Aphex Twin III delegacy, contact was made with several foreign regions, listed below, with the intention of agreeing mutual defence treaties. While the finer points of these alliances would need to be agreed on a region by region basis, it is generally accepted that such an agreement would require us to assist in the defence of these regions should they come under attack. Obviously we would also be able to count on their support should we be threatened.

Since this is an issue of huge importance, it shall be put to a vote. A referendum will be held under Section D of the Treaty Of Civfanatica.

General Resolution 01: Mutual Defence Treaty

Proposer: The Federal Empire (UN delegate)
Seconder: None required

The nations of Civfanatica believe that the signing of defensive agreements with other regions will improve Civfanatican regional security. The nations authorise the United nations delegate to negotiate and, subject to the agreement of the regional founder, sign treaties with the following regions:

1) Shen Zhou
2) 1st Nation of United Tribes
3) Lancre
4) SciTechnius

Voting has now ended.

This resolution has failed.

See bottom post for details.
 
The reason why the free nation of Blue-Crossed-Flaggy objects this proposal:

A continent that consist of sovereign nations cannot make a pact with another continent without violating the sovereignity of nations that live in the continent. Not even if most of the nations would support the alliance.

Accepting this kind of agreement even if there is only one country objecting it is against all international laws, as it would violate the sovereignity of that one country.

A wise man once said: "He who gives up his freedom for security doesn't deserve either". This agreement might give us security against an enemy invasion, but it takes away our freedom to run our own sovereign foreign policy - and that sovereign foreign policy is in BCF's case the policies of neutrality.

We urge nations to vote "nay" for this proposal when the time for voting comes.
 
The Federal Empire is inclined to agree with the BCF on this issue. The Lord President believes that alliances are more likely to attract trouble that ward it off. And, as the BCF points out, the decision whether or not to implement to treaty would always remain at national level. Therefore we could never count on the support of nations in times of trouble.

The Federal Empire is likely to vote against this resolution when the voting begins. It has been proposed by us because we believe that it is our duty as delegate to offer this choice to Civfanatica and because of the work already done by Aphex Twin III, not because we support the idea,
 
The NRI republic has already enterd multiple treaties of this kind with differnt regions, and we can say with complete re-assurences to all that a single countries foring policy is never affected, the most that will happen is that if an "ally" happens to be friends with a nation attcing us, they will be neutral, it is also worth mentioning that the only way our region will trully prosper is by entering the world stage, and the best way to do this is by making alliences, the NRI republic is willing to make a little wager that is far more well known in the U.N, then even the current U.N deligate, and has already made staunch arguments in some issues(free speech related),nad has helped the federation of Atlantian Outcasts in keeping the "true" royal house on the throne, when a civil war was started, and aided by the nation of kecha (we seem to have a truce with Kecha now-a-days though)
Unless we get our selves involved with alliances such as the ACC(a possible threat to ALL regions we might add), and the GDODAD(an enemy to all democratic/republic/people have self government nations) there is relativlly little war, other exceptions include the constant anti-nazi conflicts(which the NRI may one day fully support), and the even more constant anti capitalist/anti-communist conficts

In closing the NRI has had no experience what-so-ever where any form of our self power in any policy, be military, domestic, or forign, or any other has been taken from us in any amount, and we full heartedlly support this action, both to ensure the security of all our nation, Civfanatica as a whole, but also have our chance to "fight the good fight", as we must indeed be very "choosey" about whom we ally with, and always make sure we stay on the side that beifits all
 
After looking at NRI's message carefully, BCF experts find it to be filled with flaws.

First of all: the treaty will affect one nation's foreign policies, because signing such an alliance is part of it's foreign policy - even the signing of the alliance happens on continental level. If we as a continent make an alliance with another continent, our foreign policies have already been affected!! So how can you claim that it won't affect them? To be more precise, how can you claim that BCF's foreign policies of neutrality haven't been affected, when our continent is in close militaristic ties with another continent? Don't get us wrong, we have nothing against alliances; but if an entire continent makes such an alliance, it needs everybody's support or else the sovereignity and neutrality of those countries who don't like it has been violated!

Entering the world stage can be done in other ways than signing militaristic alliances with others. Close trading relations with all important regions and active participation in UN discussions will give us just as much influence as military power or occupied territories. No, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have any military forces, on the contrary, we must be able to defend ourselves. But we should have no obligation to bring our own men to die somewhere else (that could happen, wether you like it or not) in order to gain small amounts of political influence, when it can also be done with policies of neutrality.

If you want to fight your "good fights", go ahead. But BCF has no will to join those fights - not even morally. That's why we ask that we - and other neutral nations - are not dragged into alliances. Because, you may say what you want, but if we are in an alliance, we have already chocen sides. Even if we stood neutral, we are still taking "moral" sides after signing an alliance. And that way, our domestic, militaristic and foreign policies have already been affected if we sign this alliance. It violates the sovereignity of our policies, and it also violates our neutrality.

Now, we have nothing against countries making militaristic alliances with each other. But we want ourselves and other nations to have the right to determine these "allies" themselves. Xen speaks about fighting against such things as Nazism, but has it ever occured to you that not even all countries in Civfanatica are democratic?!? If you go on great crusades against ideologies you don't like, you might be dragging some sovereign nations in Civfanatica into conflict of interrests.

That can not and must not happen. In the name of national sovereignity of all nations on Civfanatica, we plead all free, sovereign countries to vote for "NAY"!
 
Yes, you do heve a point, and i see that i made some errors in judgment while writing, let us say, for a moment that the the allaince was made not for all of our region, but rather for the select countries that choose to accept this, would this not bring more attention to our entire region? Yes it would, and it also effect, at lest limitedlly the opinion of an "enemy" nation to our entire region, so is it not better therefore, to have the entire region with the same forign policy, and alliances so that should an indipendentlly minded fanatican nation attract trouble to our region, or one of those huge "imperial conglomerates", such as the GDODAD, decide to invade our region we have a good chance of coming out victorious, your government must see as well that when looking at history neutral states have never done much, save the fact that they are -eventually, give time- used as pawns for the major players, if not simplly disregarded, and invaded anyway

The fact of the matter is, no matter how much our region wants to stay neutral, the world will never let us, they will see the stances of our leaders, and assume all have a similer stance, neutralty is, it seems considerd an annoyince at best, and a weakness at worst by many nations looking for hostilities, and regional conquest, that is how we of the NRI percieve it at least,
the NRI dose not nesissarilly feel the need to ally with other regions nearlly as much as we need to form a regional mutual protection pact for all fantican nations, as if we were invaded, neutrality is ever an option, as the best a neutral nation can expect is nulifaction in regional politics, if they are not disbanded from the region compleatlly, WE NEED protection, until our nation become large, healthy, and strong, and can support ourselves, rather that have a need for alliances, allances, be they strictlly monoregional, or pan-regional are needed, and we need a consensus to do it, vote aye, my friends, vote aye, so that you may never have to know the crule yoke of a forign master, vote aye, so that your country may grow prosperous and strong under self civil, and economic rule, vote aye so that you own traditions may be respected, instead of just heaped needlessly into one of the tran-nation alliances currentlly eating away at all that trully just, all that we need give up is a measure of self military rule, and what do we get in return?- a promise of protection, safty, and friendship, we become equal(we need not enter alliances in which we are treated as such) and thus still have a good measure of control over our forces, and otheres, to trully decide wht is the best coarse of action for all, and to prote the ideal of fair democracy, as even the dictatorships will have a voice, and because of the fact that a large enough alliance will ensure that no will dare attack us, the sincere possibility for peace everlasting.
 
Cilpotistan have decided to concur with BCF after a hefty discussion in the various departments of the government.

Result:
Proposal to ally with Shen Zhou: vote Nay
Proposal to ally with Nation of United Tribes: vote Nay
Proposal to ally with Lancre: vote Nay
Proposal to ally with SciTechnius: vote Nay

Cilpotistan will keep a huge effort to keep its curren neutrality, and believes that a unanimous alliance within Civfanatica should be proposed before entering an external alliance.
 
Proposal to ally with Shen Zhou: Nay
Proposal to ally with Nation of United Tribes: No such region/country exists
Proposal to ally with Lancre:Nay
Proposal to ally with SciTechnius:Nay

The NRI republic wishes to remind all, that THIS IS NOT a contradiction of it prvious statements, remember, the NRI only wishes for our region to keep an open mind about alliances, and accept them, if the majority finds the candidates acceptible, after researching these realms, the NRI republic has deemed these area unacceptible to its current government stances (OOC-they dont role play thier countries very well...), and thus as there is no ideiologicle common ground, nor an immediate military advantage (OOC-all quite on the western front for the N.R. of I) we see no reson to enter alliance with them, but make no mistake, if the NRI republic thinks it prudent we will support our allies in a diplomtic, in region effort to gain more in region, though as this is said there is so little happening in the world of minor alliances that we may soon sever some, as the only real actions have been with the largest alliances, like the ACC, Imperial forces, and the GDODAD, which we want to stay well away from, well the exception might be Imperial forces, they seem to have simler principles in mind(the destruction of the GDODAD) in mind, but we are still hestient to contact them at all
 
BCF

Proposal to ally with Shen Zhou: nay
Proposal to ally with Nation of United Tribes: nay
Proposal to ally with Lancre: nay
Proposal to ally with SciTechnius: nay
 
Results of Resolution 01 Vote:

Votes For: 0,0,0,0
Votes Against: 9,9,9,9
Abstentions: 0,0,0,0

Total Members: 38
Total Eligible: 26
Quorum: 33% x 26 = 9

This resolution has failed on all FOUR points.
 
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