Civic tweaks

ICanHasName? · May 20, 2009

solistus said:
I don't have a well thought-out specific idea for this, but it would be really cool if God King scaled better with game length. As it stands, it's the "early game civic" only, and as others have pointed out, it can't be buffed too much because it's already powerful when you only have a couple cities, and becomes obsolete before long.

Thats exactly what I want to do with it, allthough I don't really know exactly how either. I changed its bonus to commerce instead of gold, which should mean you get alot more science out of it. The net 2 happies in the capitol help you leverage that while the net 2 unhappys in your large cities (>_< I couldn't figure out how to put it in all cities... whatever) shouldn't matter too much if they remain small.

I worry that this won't really change its useage though, it will just mean you churn out settlers slightly faster while you tech to something else faster...

also I want to make a python thing so when a civ running conquest razes a city the player gets about 10 gold per population killed, probly to a limit of a hundred. I have it mostly set up but how do I actually give the player gold.

Shatner · May 20, 2009

ICanHasName? said:
Theocracy - Zeal promotion for disciple units giving +1 attack strength .75 exp gain modifier and free inquisit abilities. Also, [-20% ] [+20% ] 3 from state religion 1 from other religions.

I think you got the gold bonus and science penalty reversed.

solistus said:
I don't have a well thought-out specific idea for this, but it would be really cool if God King scaled better with game length. As it stands, it's the "early game civic" only, and as others have pointed out, it can't be buffed too much because it's already powerful when you only have a couple cities, and becomes obsolete before long.

Basically, what I'd like to see is staying small as a viable option. Some mechanic that would either directly scale the numerical bonuses of God King over time or would indirectly scale in a way that makes it more useful late game without breaking the early game (this seems like a better/simpler approach but I can't think of a good bonus to accomplish this). Other options (dunno how hard they would be to implement) would be additional civic bonuses unlocked later on (similar to scaling the numerical values but adding new bonuses instead of increasing existing ones; perhaps unlocked at various techs further down the tree?), adding UBs/UUs for God Kings later down the tech tree or somehow scaling the effects by population in the capital. As I said, I really don't have a specific idea but it would be neat if God King were a viable option for civs that decide to limit or completely avoid expanding. This would probably still be very situational and in many maps/settings it would still be a very bad idea not to ReX but, for example, on a small map with No Settlers, God King turtling could be a viable alternative to conquering barb cities.

I'm not at all attached to any specifics but I'd be interested in others' thoughts on the general change in God King's role. Currently, God King is a civic that almost every civ should use early game and almost no civ should use beyond that. That's no fun!

I can see two quick and (semi) easy ways to give God King more late-game mileage. The first is to have mid-to-late game buildings give bonuses under God King (like how training buildings give happiness under Aristocracy). Examples include the Tax Collector (bonus money in capitol), the Tavern (bonus trade in capitol), the Forge (bonus production...) and maybe the Alchemist Lab (bonus science).

The other solution (and the one I personally like better) is to have later techs enhance the palace wonder itself. Have currency give the palace +25% gold or something. Have sanitation give the palace +2 health, and so on. This way you are sure it will ONLY benefit the capitol. If the Machinery tech (for example) gives the capitol (and only the capitol) a production bonus or extra great engineers or something then people might be more inclined to use God King that late in the game.

Now, there is one palace wonder per civ and the above change might require modifying each and every one of them; not a pleasant idea. So, instead you could have God King put a "Holy Throne" building in the capitol city which then exudes bonuses as you unlock techs; that way the modder only has to add one new building, rather than change 20+. If you want to, you can make all non-capitol cities get some building from God King which penalizes them... or you can give ALL cities the penalty building and have the Holy Throne compensate for the penalties (like how your current idea for God King gives the top 4 cities -2 happy and gives the capitol +4 happy so it gets a net gain of +2 happy).

Onionsoilder · May 21, 2009

Am I the only one who thinks that the FoL civic is overpowered? It grants something like 20 happiness and 5 health to every city(not that health is a problem when every single tile is forest). Coupled with the extra food from Ancient Forests, you get insane populations... Even if only half your tiles are forests, the raw population bonus is still stronger then most other civics.

WarKirby · May 21, 2009

Maybe a little, but compare it with other things in it's category.

Conquest and Agrarianism are truly incredible civics in their own right. I often find myself hard pressed to choose between them.

Foreign trade and Mercantilism could do with a little improvement, rather than weakening anything much.

ICanHasName? · May 21, 2009

Conquest is powerful enough to compete with Ag? I guess I'll have to try to abuse it in game before changing it. Foreign trade and merc got some improvements, but foreign trade may need something else... I think I'll make it decrease the cost of Inns and harbors, so you could leverage a trade route based economy easier. And inns are way expensive for what they do anyway.

The FOL civic is in some ways overpowered. Size 25 cities with every single tile an ancient forest cottage beats even the Lanuan economy. Plus treants, plus woodsman II, plus how early the religion comes, plus how bad it is for everyone that isn't elf... The only real downside is how many workers it takes to get all those cottages up. I would rather distribute up its happiness bonuses among a ton of buildings then just outright nerf it though. That would make their growth more steady and make them choose between enough workers to improve the land or enough buildings to work it, and it would mean they couldn't just found a city and expect it to be the biggest in the world in just a few turns.

WarKirby · May 21, 2009

ICanHasName? said:
Conquest is powerful enough to compete with Ag? I guess I'll have to try to abuse it in game before changing it. Foreign trade and merc got some improvements, but foreign trade may need something else... I think I'll make it decrease the cost of Inns and harbors, so you could leverage a trade route based economy easier. And inns are way expensive for what they do anyway.

When you end up in a grassland river valley with barely any hills, and you're being invaded, you'll see how useful it is to be able to make troops with food.

Also, 2 extra xp is pretty useful. It allows your troops to still start with a free level if you want to run something in place of apprenticeship. Or you can even combine it with apprenticeship and one other source of xp (theocracy, command post, form of titan) to have troops starting with 2 free levels.If you've a charismatic leader, you don't even need that extra source. conquest + apprenticeship is instant lv3 troops with any charismatic leader.

deadliver · May 21, 2009

God King is a great civic for capital-centric civs like the Scions, D'Tesh, Kurios and Khazad. God King works great if you build an uber capital, otherwise it stinks pretty badly. Also it is rough expanding beyond a continent due to maintenance problems.

The more I think of it, the more God King seems like a civic good (and appropriate) for a few civs and okay for the rest.

Valkrionn · May 21, 2009

Honestly, I always run God King until the upkeep costs get too high. :lol:

deadliver · May 21, 2009

Valkrionn said:
Honestly, I always run God King until the upkeep costs get too high.

Same here, except for the civs I mentioned (for whom I rarely change to another civic).

Once in a while I use aristocracy but that is usually for a lark.

The culture penalty from city states (not only doesn't make sense) really kills that civic for me. Instead city states should have pacifism style upkeep, a gold and culture bonus, reduced maintenance. I'd also give City States increased war weariness too.

Valkrionn · May 22, 2009

Hadn't noticed that ICanHasName? decided to go with Shatner's idea, with a few changes.... Figure I'd make it easy, and post my own version. :lol:

You can use it or not... Either way, it's in the next version of FFPlus. :lol:

Edit: Updated the python, forgot to remove a reference to the Mechanos. :lol:

In Civ4CivicInfos.xml.... Theocracy.

Spoiler :

Code:

	<CivicInfo>
            <CivicOptionType>CIVICOPTION_GOVERNMENT</CivicOptionType>
            <Type>CIVIC_THEOCRACY</Type>
            <Description>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_THEOCRACY</Description>
            <Civilopedia>NONE</Civilopedia>
            <Strategy>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_THEOCRACY_STRATEGY</Strategy>
            <Help></Help>
            <Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Civics/Theocracy.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Civics_Civilizations_Religions_Atlas.dds,6,3</Button>
            <TechPrereq>TECH_RELIGIOUS_LAW</TechPrereq>
            <iAnarchyLength>1</iAnarchyLength>
            <Upkeep>UPKEEP_HIGH</Upkeep>
            <iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
            <iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
            <iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
            <iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
            <iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iStateReligionGreatPeopleRateModifier>
            <iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>0</iDistanceMaintenanceModifier>
            <iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>0</iNumCitiesMaintenanceModifier>
            <iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>0</iCorporationMaintenanceModifier>
            <iExtraHealth>0</iExtraHealth>
            <iFreeExperience>0</iFreeExperience>
            <iWorkerSpeedModifier>0</iWorkerSpeedModifier>
            <iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>0</iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>
            <iMilitaryProductionModifier>0</iMilitaryProductionModifier>
            <iBaseFreeUnits>0</iBaseFreeUnits>
            <iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>0</iBaseFreeMilitaryUnits>
            <iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeUnitsPopulationPercent>
            <iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>0</iFreeMilitaryUnitsPopulationPercent>
            <iGoldPerUnit>0</iGoldPerUnit>
            <iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>0</iGoldPerMilitaryUnit>
            <iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>0</iHappyPerMilitaryUnit>
            <bMilitaryFoodProduction>0</bMilitaryFoodProduction>
            <iMaxConscript>0</iMaxConscript>
            <bNoUnhealthyPopulation>0</bNoUnhealthyPopulation>
            <iExpInBorderModifier>0</iExpInBorderModifier>
            <bBuildingOnlyHealthy>0</bBuildingOnlyHealthy>
            <iLargestCityHappiness>0</iLargestCityHappiness>
            <iWarWearinessModifier>0</iWarWearinessModifier>
            <iFreeSpecialist>0</iFreeSpecialist>
            <iTradeRoutes>0</iTradeRoutes>
            <bNoForeignTrade>0</bNoForeignTrade>
            <bNoCorporations>0</bNoCorporations>
            <bNoForeignCorporations>0</bNoForeignCorporations>
            <iCivicPercentAnger>0</iCivicPercentAnger>
            <bStateReligion>0</bStateReligion>
            <bNoNonStateReligionSpread>1</bNoNonStateReligionSpread>
            <iStateReligionHappiness>3</iStateReligionHappiness>
            <iNonStateReligionHappiness>-1</iNonStateReligionHappiness>
            <iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>0</iStateReligionUnitProductionModifier>
            <iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>0</iStateReligionBuildingProductionModifier>
            <iStateReligionFreeExperience>0</iStateReligionFreeExperience>
            <YieldModifiers>
            </YieldModifiers>
            <CapitalYieldModifiers>
            </CapitalYieldModifiers>
            <TradeYieldModifiers>
            </TradeYieldModifiers>
            <CommerceModifiers>
                <iCommerce>10</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>-25</iCommerce>
                <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
            </CommerceModifiers>
            <CapitalCommerceModifiers>
            </CapitalCommerceModifiers>
            <SpecialistExtraCommerces>
            </SpecialistExtraCommerces>
            <Hurrys>
            </Hurrys>
            <SpecialBuildingNotRequireds></SpecialBuildingNotRequireds>
            <SpecialistValids>
                <SpecialistValid>
                    <SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_PRIEST</SpecialistType>
                    <bValid>1</bValid>
                </SpecialistValid>
            </SpecialistValids>
            <BuildingHappinessChanges>
            </BuildingHappinessChanges>
            <BuildingHealthChanges>
            </BuildingHealthChanges>
            <FeatureHappinessChanges>
            </FeatureHappinessChanges>
            <ImprovementYieldChanges>
            </ImprovementYieldChanges>
            <WeLoveTheKing>TXT_KEY_CIVIC_WE_LOVE_PRIME_MINISTER</WeLoveTheKing>
            <bCompassionHigh>0</bCompassionHigh>
            <bCompassionLow>0</bCompassionLow>
            <bHidden>0</bHidden>
            <bNoDiplomacyWithEnemies>0</bNoDiplomacyWithEnemies>
            <bPrereqWar>0</bPrereqWar>
            <iAttitudeShareMod>0</iAttitudeShareMod>
            <iCoastalTradeRoutes>0</iCoastalTradeRoutes>
            <iEnslavementChance>0</iEnslavementChance>
            <iFoodConsumptionPerPopulation>0</iFoodConsumptionPerPopulation>
            <BlockAlignment>NONE</BlockAlignment>
            <PrereqAlignment>NONE</PrereqAlignment>
            <PrereqCivilization>NONE</PrereqCivilization>
            <PrereqReligion>NONE</PrereqReligion>
            <iAlignmentModifier>0</iAlignmentModifier>
        </CivicInfo>

In Civ4PromotionInfos.xml.... The Zealotry Promotion.

Spoiler :

In Civ4SpellInfos.xml.... Inquisition, and Incite Fervor.

Spoiler :

In CvSpellInterface.py.... The Incite Fervor spell.

Spoiler :

Code:

def reqInciteFervor(caster):
	pPlot = caster.plot()
	pCity = pPlot.getPlotCity()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
	StateBelief = gc.getPlayer(pCity.getOwner()).getStateReligion()
	iReligion = 0
	
	if (StateBelief == gc.getPlayer(pCity.getOwner()).getStateReligion()):
		if pCity().getOwner() == caster.getOwner():
			return True
		
	if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SCIONS'):
		if pCity().getOwner() == caster.getOwner():			
			return True

	return False
			
	
def spellInciteFervor(caster):
	iOwner = caster.getOwner()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iOwner)
	pCiv = pPlayer.getCivilizationType()
	pPlot = caster.plot()
	pCity = pPlot.getPlotCity()
	iScions = gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SCIONS')
	iOrderp = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DISCIPLE_THE_ORDER')
	iVeilp = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DISCIPLE_THE_ASHEN_VEIL')
	iLeavesP = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DISCIPLE_FELLOWSHIP_OF_LEAVES')
	iOOP = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DISCIPLE_OCTOPUS_OVERLORDS')
	iRoKP = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DISCIPLE_RUNES_OF_KILMORPH')
	iEmpyP = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_DISCIPLE_EMPYREAN')
	iLegate = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_LEGATE')
	iLeaves = gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_FELLOWSHIP_OF_LEAVES')
	iRoK = gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_RUNES_OF_KILMORPH')
	iEmpy = gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_EMPYREAN')
	iOrder = gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_ORDER')
	iOO = gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_OCTOPUS_OVERLORDS')
	iVeil = gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_ASHEN_VEIL')
	StateBelief = pPlayer.getStateReligion()
	
	if StateBelief == iLeaves:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iLeavesP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iLeavesP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iLeavesP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)
	if StateBelief == iRoK:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iRoKP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iRoKP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iRoKP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)
	if StateBelief == iEmpy:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iEmpyP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iEmpyP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iEmpyP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)
	if StateBelief == iOrder:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iOrderP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iOrderP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iOrderP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)
	if StateBelief == iOO:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iOOP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iOOP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iOOP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)
	if StateBelief == iVeil:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iVeilP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iVeilP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iVeilP, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)
	if pCiv == iScions:
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iLegate, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iLegate, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iLegate, pCity.getX(), pCity.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
		pCity.changeHurryAngerTimer(3)
		pCity.changePopulation(-3)

Opera · May 22, 2009

If I read this right, does that mean that you just need a state religion to use Incite Fervor in any city, even if not yours? And even if it hasn't the state religion in it?

Valkrionn · May 22, 2009

Good catch on the ownership... Forgot to put a check in for that.

There IS a check for the state religion, though.

If the State Religion is in the city, iReligion = 1. If iReligion is equal to 1, then it allows it to be cast. I did it that way because I can go in afterwards for special cases like the Scions, and set it to 1 for them specifically.

Edit: Added a check for owner.

Opera · May 22, 2009

Valkrionn said:
There IS a check for the state religion, though.

If the State Religion is in the city, iReligion = 1. If iReligion is equal to 1, then it allows it to be cast. I did it that way because I can go in afterwards for special cases like the Scions, and set it to 1 for them specifically.

I don't understand then. When you define stateBelief, you define the state religion, right? Then you run a loop which goes into all religions and compare their ID to the stateBelief; if there is a match, that means that the player has a state religion, right? Or... does getNumReligionInfos() check the religions in a city? Yeah, that would make sense

Valkrionn · May 22, 2009

After looking at it again, I don't like the way I had it... Changed it by using some code from Inquisition. :lol:

deadliver · Jun 2, 2009

Hey Icanhasname,

you had a chance to look at what I doing with the Slavery civic?

ICanHasName? · Jun 3, 2009

Yea it looks pretty cool. I wasn't sure what to do about slavery. On the one hand the power to whip population is powerful, especially with ag and Calabim, etc but I never really find myself using it. I really really like the slaver unit and selling slaves, and revolts should help balance it.

Anyway, I think I'll still finish this (for FF+ I guess) and then start tinkering with other stuff. I think I'll add some more early events, try and teach the AI not to build so many Inns and Aqueducts and add more lair results that are both good and bad (your unit finds a sweet sword among a pile of treasure, but taking it has angered some ghosts ohno)

deadliver · Jun 4, 2009

Hey! So maybe the civics need an overhaul to FF/+ standards? that is, they actually do something interesting beyond, well what they do now!

With my slavery module I am trying to make slavery much more pervasive, and the same could be applied to most civics really. For example, what about if republic allowed you to train Republican Guards? Or if God King (eventually considering it is an early civic) gave access to fanatical units that drew strength from your God King Hood?

deadliver · Jun 6, 2009

Hey Icanhasname. How about a line of buildings for God King that help reduce the maintenance upkeep at the cost of unhappies? Similar to what was mentioned earlier about extra happy faces in the capital and extra unhappies in the other cities. Another thing to do could be to have God King only UUs available at later techs to keep them interesting. I'd say someone could steal freely from history and use those societies as a model for this.

Civic tweaks

ICanHasName?

Warlord

Shatner

Warlord

Onionsoilder

Reaver

WarKirby

Arty person

ICanHasName?

Warlord

WarKirby

Arty person

deadliver

Loud Mouth Amateur

Valkrionn

The Hamster King

deadliver

Loud Mouth Amateur

Valkrionn

The Hamster King

Opera

Deity

Valkrionn

The Hamster King

Opera

Deity

Valkrionn

The Hamster King

deadliver

Loud Mouth Amateur

ICanHasName?

Warlord

deadliver

Loud Mouth Amateur

deadliver

Loud Mouth Amateur

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