Civics Improvements Suggestions

[Vokarya]

I think that's too close to Banditry, personally.

I think there's more overlap between Banditry and Raiders than there is between Horde and Banditry. Banditry has way more connotations than I want.

 

[Vokarya]

don't forget you have the 'hoard' building (Treasure), horde of massed population, might be a bit too close together and confuse people.

One is a civic that is obsolete by the end of the Ancient Era, and the other is a building that doesn't show up until the mid-Classical. I don't think there is opportunity for confusion. If truly necessary, I can extend the building name to Treasure Hoard.

 

[<Nexus>]

How about Horde? It gets the "disorganized rabble" feeling across.

No way! That's not an ancient "disorganized rabble" but the nomadic Mongols who controlled the largest land empire ever.
...or it's the orc hordes of Warcraft3. Anyway, Horde is not "disorganized".
Also, DinamicCivNames also has Horde for something IIRC.

We could simply use "Disorganized", "Unorganized" or "Rabble".

 

[Vokarya]

Those won't work for me. Rabble implies really bad fighters and Disorganized doesn't work for a military civic. Dynamic Civ Names only uses "Horde" for something triggered by "SDTK.sdObjectGetVal( 'BarbarianCiv', pPlayer, 'BarbStyle' ) == Military" -- is that even possible to show up? Or is it left over from something else?

I'm also not going to give any one civilization exclusive rights to a civic name. I think Horde is a much better fit than Banditry, and the one that feels the best to me so far.

 

[Pepo]

I don't think horde is a fitting name as it implies a big number of soldiers (normally nomadic) working with some coordination, while the early civic should represent utter discordination of forces, normally raised in self defense. I suppose War lords would be the most fitting, but militia would work as well

 

[Arakhor]

Militia, Levies or Fyrd would certainly describe what are typically unprofessional troops raised at short notice, usually in self-defence.

 

[Vokarya]

Militia might just work, but Levies sounds way too much like Conscription. I picked up on a nuance of Horde that escaped me until last night -- Hordes conquer. These aren't conquerors. (To borrow Magic: the Gathering terminology, I want white, not red; but I also want Warriors, not Soldiers.)

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Seems to me you've got only Warbands, Unorganized, or Raiders.

You can invent a little bit if you have to. Apparently archaeology surmises some controversy in prehistoric warfare.

 

[Vokarya]

Side idea: How about splitting the Conscription/Mobilization civic building into 2 buildings?

• Press Gang: Civic building for Conscription only. Gives +20% military production at the cost of a flat +1 unhappiness and no other negative effects. I know the name is an anachronism, but I think the concept works.
• Draft Office: Civic building for Mobilization, also open to Despotism. Gives more military production, like +50%, with a steeper cost; at least keeping the increased food to grow and adding increased war weariness, but I'm thinking actually having it employ 1 citizen. This makes it a substantial cost. This is available at Grand War.

 

[<Nexus>]

Militia still sounds a bit too modern for an ancient civic that you will leave as soon as possible. In this civic you don't really have trained soldiers, they are rather the hunters of the tribe picking up some weapons. How about Venatic, Hunters or Huntsmen?

Side idea: How about splitting the Conscription/Mobilization civic building into 2 buildings?

I like individual buildings for individual civics though not at all cost.

Press Gang: Civic building for Conscription only. Gives +20% military production at the cost of a flat +1 unhappiness and no other negative effects. I know the name is an anachronism, but I think the concept works.

Never heard that word but if that name is good for the native English speakers I have nothing against it.

Draft Office: Civic building for Mobilization, also open to Despotism. Gives more military production, like +50%, with a steeper cost; at least keeping the increased food to grow and adding increased war weariness, but I'm thinking actually having it employ 1 citizen. This makes it a substantial cost. This is available at Grand War.

Don't employ citizens, it's not a factory and would only confuse players.

 

[Pepo]

With my recent game finished, I think that there are to many production modifiers to make the ones of civics useful. The 20% production from planned doesn't see as much when you have manufactory plants and buildings boosting production as well. Except for mobilization ( the draft office shouldn't require employing a citizen, just give it harsher maluses) and M.A.D that got very high modifiers, the rest of civics are much less powerful. Civics that affect raw yields like tecnocracy or slavery or the ones that give modifiers in aspectes were they are few (food, commerce before corporations) are much more powerful in the current version. I suggest to possible solutions: make the production civics affect raw yields (for example, planned giving +1 extra production per specialist) or change the way production and modifiers work, giving much less modifiers from buildings and more raw yields. I think the second approach is better, but the first would be much less work

 

[Vokarya]

Militia still sounds a bit too modern for an ancient civic that you will leave as soon as possible. In this civic you don't really have trained soldiers, they are rather the hunters of the tribe picking up some weapons. How about Venatic, Hunters or Huntsmen?

I don't like Hunters because it doesn't have anything to do with the hunting mechanic or Recon units, which is what I think players would be expecting. I looked through all the mods I have and Militia seems to be the preferred choice for naming the starter military civic, although I will agree it does sound a bit too modern.

About the only other thing I can come up with is Brutes, which does play into the "disorganized" theme but at least sounds relatable to military.

 

[Vokarya]

I took a look at comparing Slavery to Caste and I think we can do some adjusting here.

First, reducing the Slave Market:

• Remove the production and gold bonuses.
• Add flat +3 gold/turn. I think +3 is okay, but I would rather have gold here rather than commerce.
  
• Possibly add an additional -1 health.
• That leaves 1 free Slave, +3 gold/turn, and -1 happy.

Second, boost Caste a little:

• Remove the largest city unhappiness. I think the GPP penalty is the more appropriate drawback, and Caste doesn't need two different negatives.

Third, for Revolutions only:

• Slavery should not grant a stability bonus for switching to. If anything, the sign should be reversed and should increase instability.

How does this look so far?

 

[Pepo]

Seems good to me

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

About the only other thing I can come up with is Brutes, which does play into the "disorganized" theme but at least sounds relatable to military.

The idea being that the Brutish among them fall into the role of being the clan's muscle?

Hits close to your mark of "mob defense". The key is not to get a term that selects for any sort of role or duty, but instead specifies who gets the summons and maybe how they form their ranks.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I've been enjoying this mod over the last couple of days since I've started playing it, and figured that here would be the place to ask it.
Are the distance costs imposed on running government as a Republic balanced?
I found when I switched from Monarchy to Republic that I was nearly crippled with maintenance costs within 10 turns, I had to turn back.
I assume it's best used for small nations, rather than large ones? I like to sprawl nice and wide so perhaps Monarchy is my best civic for that.

Also it's a little unrelated but is specialization still relevant in Rise of Mankind?
I found it was quite easy to specialise cities in BTS but with the influx of such a wide variety of buildings and the restructure of the game, I've found it's harder to specialise cities - especially given with the dynamic border option I have enabled.

Enjoying the mod very much I'll add, so hat's off to the creators.

 

[Vokarya]

Republic is absolutely intended for small civilizations, and Monarchy is meant for big civilizations until Federation comes on the scene.

Specialization is hard to do. I can specialize cities by Great Person type but not anything more complex than that.

 

[Vokarya]

How would Proletariat look with the +1 health removed and the flat +1 happiness changed to -25% happiness from population? Conscription is definitely losing its extra unhappiness and I think I am going to cut Divine Cult's reduced unhappiness from population as well, so I think this is a good place to use reduced unhappiness from population.

I haven't played a long game in a while, but I believe there is currently a bit too much health floating around and that unhealth is not a problem until the Industrial Era. So removing a point of health won't wreck anything. On the other hand, this makes Proletariat better only for cities that are size 8 or more.

 

[<Nexus>]

About the only other thing I can come up with is Brutes, which does play into the "disorganized" theme but at least sounds relatable to military.

I think I like Brutes. It also reminds me of Populous 3 where the warriors were called Braves. That could also be an option.

 

[Pepo]

I really like the propose change for proletariat, makes it a better population civic

As for removing the health bonus, it isn't a big deal. The main problem I have with health is that there is I believe some overlapping between Superhuman and paradise effects and some buildings. Considering that superhuman main selling point is removing citizen , I would tinker things a bit