Civics

[woodelf]

No offense taken P_L. It's always best to put numbers down, even when ludicrous, because then people have to adjust them instead of simply saying "They suck!"

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Sorry.

Ok, can we get back to brainstorming now?
What king of %'s will begood then? what are other peoples ideas?

 

[Duke van Frost]

To get back to brainstorming (but not giving any effects or %-numbers):

I really want something like "teef´ Trading>" (or Economy etc.) only available for Greenskins in the "Economy Column" to make the pillaging Victory Condition we talked about before more interesting to them. (Once you see Squigs you just gotta love 'em - alltime orcsfanatic, forget about gobbos, they are just a feast to the stronger Greenz!)

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Pillaging-victory would be interesting for Norse as well.(and possibly for some other civs we maybe put in later like Hung or Skaven)

 

[Duke van Frost]

I think I might have a really good idea for an early Economics civic that would become available with the tech Trade:

Barter (or is it called Bartering?!?)

Every city with one of some specific resources (like stone, wheat, pigs, rice, horses - what ancient folks can really make good use of - unlike spices or dye, for example) in the city-radius gets +1 trade route.

 

[woodelf]

You have a Barter Economy and the act is bartering, so really either way would work and I really like the idea. Any bonus for having more than one in your radius?

 

[Duke van Frost]

I wouldn´t suggets that, just +1 if you got one or more in the radius.

But I fear that our python-wizards will have to do another programming for this, it seems like they are becoming our main workforce

 

[woodelf]

Indeed. You can only do so much in XML....

 

[El Loco Mono]

+1 trade routes or +% to trade route value? If it's bartering, i would think good deals, not necessarly more deals

Also how about extending a conquest civic to also give a a bonus XP for razing cities instead of capturing them. Or maybe giving a wicked decrease to war weariness.

 

[Duke van Frost]

+1 trade routes or +% to trade route value? If it's bartering, i would think good deals, not necessarly more deals

I thought of it as being the first new economic civic becoming available. That´s why I came up with the idea that if people know that they can get special things at your village they would come and offer things in exchange for those rarities you got. That´s why i thought about + trade routes or +% to trade routes.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i like that idea Duke

 

[member66170]

But isn't bartering a really unefficent way of running an economy? I would think of barter as the basic economy civic. Maybe something like this:

Barter - basic
Local Currency - no upkeep for distance to capital - medium upkeep
National Currency - +2 trade routes per city - high upkeep
Free market - can rush with gold, +1 gold per specialist - low upkeep
Isolationism - 1 free merchant specialist per city, +10% gold per city, no foreign trade routes - medium upkeep

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Any more ideas here. I'm revamping this right now.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

well, what have you got so far? i have a lot of ideas but its pointless putting them down if you already know them

EDIT: oh, and what do they do?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

please keep in mind that i know these are not balanced , please change them where you think they need balancing

Government
Elder’s Council
Low upkeep
Monarchy
Low upkeep
Effects: Plus one for every military unit in a city. Castles and Forts give some extra defence.
Representation
High upkeep
Effect:+3 science per specialist;
+3 in 4 to 6 largest cities, depending on map size.
Can spend gold to finish production
City States
Medium upkeep
Effect: city upkeep costs reduced by 50%, Workers work half speed, Military units build half speed, units upkeep reduces by 50%
God King
Medium upkeep
Effect: +1 in cities with state religion. All magic units get one extra spell from their primary wind of magic. +50% upkeep in capital, State religion spreads faster.
Tyranny
Very High upkeep
Effect: No in any cities. Workers build twice as fast. Higher chance that units can enslave defeated enemies. +25% military unit production, -20% research per city.
Oligarchy
Low upkeep
+15% research per city. Can spend gold to finish production

Warfare
Warlords
low upkeep
Standing Army
Medium upkeep
Effect: All new units get +2 EXP. Plus some free units. All new units get the ‘defender’ promotion, which makes them weaker when attacking but stronger when defending
Horde
Medium upkeep
Effect: No unit upkeep costs. Units built faster. - 20% research and +15% city upkeep cost
Militia
High upkeep
Effect: Workers gain the ability to attack and defend (with strength 1), workers and civilians can upgrade to militia units cheaper. Militia units cheaper and built faster. Cottages spawn militia more often. more free units
Scattered Forces
Low upkeep
Effect: All new units gain the Guerrilla I and Forest I promotions.
Chivalry
Medium upkeep
Effect: Horse resource gives +1 . Mounted units get to retry failed psychology tests.
Pacifism
no upkeep
Effect: +100% great person birth rate in cities with state religion;
+1 gold support cost per military unit

Knowledge / Magic
Ancient Wisdoms
low upkeep
Bardic Knowledge
Medium upkeep
Effect: 20% culture in all cities, Plus 20% great people in every city .
Apprenticeship
Mediumupkeep
Effect: All units get Plus 2 EXP, units produced 15% slower, educational buildings (library, College) build 50% faster.
Scholarly
High upkeep
Effect: +30 % science in every city, Plus 20% Great People in the 3 largest cities. +20% war
Theology
Very High upkeep
Effect: Plus 1 for cities with state religion, Plus 10% science for cities with state religion, Plus 10% culture for cities with state religion, state religion spreads faster.
Free Knowledge
Low upkeep
Effect: +100% culture in all cities;
+2 science from Cottages.
penalty for civs without Free Knowledge
Propaganda
High upkeep
Effect: No War . +1 in all cities.


Society
Tribal
low upkeep
Barbaric
Low upkeep
Effect: Military units get +2 EXP, units get extra bonuses against barbarian units, 15% less science in every city.
Feudalism
Low upkeep
Effect: Farms produce +1 gold, +2 tax collector specialists in all cities. +1 unhappiness in all cities.
Military Caste
Medium upkeep
Effect: - 50% culture in all cities. -50% military building and military unit building time. +1 guard specialists in every city
Magocracy
High upkeep
Effect: Spell caster units get +4 EXP and one free spell (book?). +2 mage specialist in every city.
Theocracy
High upkeep
Effect: Unlimited priest specialists in all cities. + 1 free priest specialist. State religion spreads much faster.
Communal
Low upkeep
Effect: No city maintenance cost from distance to palace;
+1 food from Farms, workshops, watermills.

Economy
Bartering
low upkeep
Decentralization
Medium upkeep
Effect: Farms and cottages produce +1 gold. Palace’s effects doubled.
Mercantilism
High upkeep
Effect: + 1 foreign trade per city, +1 trade route per city. Markets and docks produce extra commerce.
Free Market
Low upkeep
Effect: +1 trade route in 5 largest cities, and plus one per trade route.
penalty for civs without Free Market
Isolationism
Medium upkeep
Effect: No foreign trade. +1 trade route in All cities , Plus 15% gold per city, Plus 1 tax collector specialist per city
Naturalism
Medium upkeep
Effect: +6 health in all cities +1 from jungle, forest
???

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I will probably make it very different.
Still not bad to have some ideas but they all need to be doable in xml only now, just comes in handy if I run out of ideas. Basically I'm doing a mixture of FFH, vanilla and our ideas now.
I will do 6 civicoptions:

Government(mixture of former Government and Legal)

Fist Law
God King
Heridary Rule
City States
Imperial Representation
Tyranny

Military(everything related to Exp, military happiness, Generals and mil.production)

Warlords
Horde
Vassalage
Militia
Standing Army

Labor(mostly vanilla, slightly altered, guilds like FFH but engineers instead of merchants)

Tribalism
(Clans-Dwarfs and Elves)
Slavery
Serfdom
Caste System
Guilds

Economy

Decentralization
Agriculture
Barter
Mercantilism
Foreign Trade
(Sylvan Ways?)

Religion

Shamanism
Mysticism
Pantheism
Organized Religion
Theocracy

Knowledge(this should be a mixture of tech related boni and placeholder for the planned new commerce)

Ancient Wisdoms
Bardic Knowledge
Devine Lore
Arcane Lore
(something related to mechanisms-need name)



As you can see there is still room. I'm almost done withthe first 3 options. So mainly ideas for the last 3 would be nice but of course ok if you offer mor(sorry no time to list effects here now, but be assured I consider everything you propose)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

The Government ones all sound good. we could also call Fist Law 'Rule of Thumb'. or something.

Military sounds good.

Labor also looks good, but what do you mean by:
"(Clans-Dwarfs and Elves)" BTW, i dont think Elves have 'clans'

Under the Economy list, what does Decentralization do? is it the default one? i think Barter should be instead. also what do you propose "(Sylvan Ways)" does? the same as Environmentalism? we could call it Sylvan law or something, dunno though, thats a hard one.

Should we not leave the religeon civics until we get the religeon completed first? what do you propose these do?

Knowledge looks good too, but what about Apprenticeship, or just one for ordinary education like that? I think "devine" should be spelt 'Divine' with an 'i'. and when you say "(something related to mechanisms-need name)" do you mean Machines? if so you could say Alchemism, or Earth Lore, or Rune Lore, or Machina, i dunno, thats also ahard one.

Id like to know what you propose each one does, because i cant gather much from just the name whats the upkeep, the effects, etc.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Clans is an ancient civic therefore still should fir better than tribes for elves as well(I thought for a default for those races- both are able to climb the ladder afterwards.
I won't list all the changes here now to much work(and of course WIP so much stuff isn't decided), you will all see what I've done with the next release here in forum and then can comment it- won't release to public before this can be discussed here no worries. Knowledge will have to be revamped totally with the new commerce anyway so no need to worry much about that civicoption now.
Decentralization is default and does nothing.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i personally think tribes fits Elves better than clans, but, whatever. i dont mind

Shouldnt Barter be the default for economy? you do know that Decentralization can only hapen if there are big cities, and generally only occurs in modern cities.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Decentralization is the basic vanilla civic!
But I don't mind I will probably rename it to barter anyway.