1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Civilisation Attributes open discussion

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Faraway
    I am not your master. I am just telling your what the parameters of a productive conversation are.
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  2. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Yes, I understand.
     
  3. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Very thoughtful contributions which would make the UB Royal Mounted Police a more useful and historically representative UB. I'm inclined to agree with previous posts that Grand Railway Hotel might take away from the Chateau Frontenac wonder, so if we can fix the RCMP UB then that would probably be ideal. The role of the Mounted Police may well still be better represented by a UB than UU, though I still think the name needs work. We call the other building a constabulary not a constable, so why call it a Royal Mounted Police...? I like the stability idea, I initially thought about the RCMP as a settler could provide extra stability in the new settlement but it seemed too out there and could just be covered by Canada's stability parameters, but as a building it seems more reasonable because it is something you have to choose to build, whereas settling is mandatory.

    Still leaves a better UU than a Corvette though, any further ideas? And lets try not to dismiss ideas out of hand.
     
  4. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    376
    That's... an odd line to draw in the sand, unless it's technically unfeasible. Canada is already pretty severely incentivized against using their UU as it is, there's very little practical difference between what they have now and just not having one.

    If it's beyond discussion, though, I'll go back to hoping for a civilian UU which might at least have SOME function.
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  5. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,122
    Location:
    Canada
    The coureurs de bois or voyageurs as explorer replacement would probably be my preferred choice, if it wasn't pretty much completely unviable given that it's the wrong timeframe for the civ.
     
    Krieger-FS and TJDowling like this.
  6. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,888
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    In my 2nd UU modcomp, I used the Avro Arrow as the 2nd Canadian UU. I made it cheaper and gave it a bit more range.

    Pros:
    - Properly Canadian
    - Art available
    - The aren't many air UU, while there are many naval UU. (Although there are no lategame naval UU except the Corvette) It will make the UU roster a bit more diverse.

    Cons:
    - Also not really relevant for most Canadian games
    - Only 5 built IRL. I don't think it has a huge historical significance. Although it can be used to represent more than just the plane:
     
    trevor, Krieger-FS and TJDowling like this.
  7. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Polling my fellow Canadian historians amateur and otherwise Mounties (Quote: "RCMP built Canada, it's how we stole the West") and Coureur de bois came up. Among others:

    Loyalists
    Avro Arrow (probably not because it never really saw the light of day)
    Ice-Breaker (can move through sea ice)

    But no one seems to think Corvettes are uniquely Canadian or really worthy of mention.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
    Publicola and Krieger-FS like this.
  8. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    3,122
    Location:
    Canada
    It does have significant historical significance and is fairly well known, but for all the wrong reasons (i.e. being cancelled). Although quite frankly it's still better than the corvette.
     
    TJDowling likes this.
  9. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    UB CANDU reactor replaces Nuclear Power Plant.... never melts down.

    Off Topic:
    World Wonder: CANADARM... +1 production for all satellites

    "Kids in the Hall" or even all five troupe members and the cast of SCTV as a Great Artists for Canada? Great Artist John Candy.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-West_Mounted_Police

    Not just a police force.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  10. Steb

    Steb King

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    838
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Montréal
    Mexican Rurales are more police- than military-like, though. And the RCMP's predecessor, the North-West Mounted Police, was definitely at least paramilitary. It sounds to me like the idea could be worked into a settler or worker that can defend. (EDIT: crosspost/edit with TJDowling)
    Huh, I'd never actually heard of it. It's quite cool (and I agree with everyone that it's better than the Corvette), but yeah a cancelled project is probably not the best UU idea.

    From the relevant Quora question "How is the Canadian military unique?", I got another idea: the Canadian Rangers. They're a reservist organization, mostly made up of indigenous people, who patrol the less inhabited parts of the country. They have existed since 1947. Not sure what unit they would replace or what their extra ability could be. Extra movement/strength on tundra or ice?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Faraway
    Rurales are a fair point. In that case I am also interested in alternative Mexican UU ideas.
     
    triplebassist likes this.
  12. Steb

    Steb King

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    838
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Montréal
    Going in a totally different direction for the Canadian UU: UN Peacekeeper? This force was an idea from future Canadian PM Lester Pearson, and with their blue helmets they would be iconic.

    However, beyond being Canadian-invented, they are not controlled by the Canadian (or any) government, include very few Canadians in their ranks, and I have no idea what abilities they could have. To be truly interesting they'd need some sort of new peacekeeping mechanic, I think.
     
    stillblackadder and Hickman888 like this.
  13. trevor

    trevor Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Messages:
    262
    Rurales were frequently nationalized & folded into the Mexican Army several times in their existence plus the officer corps were seconded from the Army. I think it's got a better argument for keeping it than would the RCMP.

    How about a spy with a less-powerful Great Statesman effect (renamed Diplomat or Chargé d'affaires)?
     
  14. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Literally every Canadian outside this forum I've polled familiar with the Civilization series says Mounted Police first (as a civilian unit) though most admit it is kind of a vanilla idea (like something out of Civ VI). Somehow though, the collective opinion of people who have lived and studied Canadian history is a non-starter. Look I'm not suggesting a hockey rink for UB.... Further ideas:

    Peace-keeper or APCs (again, very late-game and not directly relating to Canada's core gameplay)
    Metis Settler (I think that could be pretty good)
    Mac Paps (of the Spanish Civil War, less late game but again not related to Canada's core gameplay)
    Missile Shield... not a unit
    Someone said "Angry 1830s Liberals" not sure what that meant but I guess we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here but somehow it's still better than Corvette.

    I like this idea, but I think in the past there has been resistance to adding a unique Spy.

    Neat idea, could help with the settle 90% UHV. Would likely serve the same purpose as Mounted Police but may fulfill the bizarre requirement of not being the police.
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Faraway
    It's not a bizarre requirement to have military units in the military, so shut it.
     
  16. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Mounted Police as a civilian unit.
     
  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,994
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Faraway
    Civilian units cannot fight in this game.
     
  18. TJDowling

    TJDowling King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Except for the Pioneer... but whatever we don't need to give it fighting functions. Most of my suggestions for actual functions in my original post were civilian functions but you still dismissed it off-hand. I honestly don't think Canada has much use for a fighting or military unit.
     
    triplebassist likes this.
  19. MechatronicJazz

    MechatronicJazz Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    299
    RCMP aside, would you be open to more suggestions for a civilian UU for Canada?
     
  20. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Messages:
    436
    Location:
    Italy
    I had an idea: give RCPM exploration capabilities (cannot attack, only defend), but an effect to make population happy, as military units do under monarchy civic.
     
    Publicola and TJDowling like this.

Share This Page