Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ

[Thyrwyn]

With all the massive amount of time, money, and resources that Firaxis and 2K have saved on using Steamworks, will this mean that all this huge mass of additional time and resources will be spent on actually developing the game further?

Watch the GDC scalability presentation. For one thing, they have completely re-written the code and drastically increased CPU/GPU performance, efficiency, and scalability.

300 units x 15 animated figures (and shadows) on screen at the same time No late game lag.

 

[tom2050]

Watch the GDC scalability presentation. For one thing, they have completely re-written the code and drastically increased CPU/GPU performance, efficiency, and scalability.

300 units x 15 animated figures (and shadows) on screen at the same time No late game lag.

It is nice to have faster graphics... I have no doubt it will be incredible to have a game looking so nice, with very little lag.

In fact, lag is a huge thing with this type of game. I prefer the game to be fast enough so I don't need to stop constantly and wait. So this is great news indeed.

I just hope they put as much time into all aspects of gameplay, as they have for graphics. Combat model, social policies, and AI are all big changes (if AI is excellent all-around; HUGE POINTS to Firaxis!). But I feel diplomacy, and other non-combat modes of the game may have been left to hang.

I have always been a war-monger, because diplomacy has always felt a little un-interesting. I really hope there is a nice new dynamic diplo model. After all, this should be a top priority, it is Civilizations after all, and diplomacy has played the biggest role in the world and has an impact with everything. Trading Wood for 5 gold a turn isn't really anything to get diplomatically excited about.

Are there new things with diplo, I'm sure there are... but will diplomacy be anything dynamic?

There are alot of Builders out there too I would assume. Empire building players need some major new improvements also! Not sure if social policies will fill that out or not.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Removed - wrong thread

 

[Wotan]

Regarding privacy of personally identifiable information:
"...Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy..."

However this isn't always the case:

"Personally identifiable information protected under this privacy policy and collected from users may be done in conjunction with associates under agreement with Valve... Valve's privacy policy does not extend to associates of Valve."

This is in a nutshell the core reason why I will probably never see Civ5 on a computer owned by me. I will NEVER allow a third party software like steam to run on my PC collecting information when I have sensitive information stored on it relating to my work. It is surprising so many headlessly install and use Steam without thinking about the risks involved in allowing a third party to gain access to your PC with what i can only describe as spyware.

 

[Senethro]

This is in a nutshell the core reason why I will probably never see Civ5 on a computer owned by me. I will NEVER allow a third party software like steam to run on my PC collecting information when I have sensitive information stored on it relating to my work. It is surprising so many headlessly install and use Steam without thinking about the risks involved in allowing a third party to gain access to your PC with what i can only describe as spyware.

Having any unnecessary software on a business/research/work related PC is a potential security concern, so thats all games and communication software.

Or are you seriously suggesting theres a special risk in this situation because Steam is actively trying to steal your data?

 

[Wotan]

Steam is actively collecting data from my PC. 'nuff said.

 

[Senethro]

So you are seriously suggesting that Valve has a policy of stealing your data. Thank you for enlightening us. Now, how do you suggest we go about pursuing legal action?

 

[The_Coyote]

actively trying to steal? = actively collecting = has a policy of stealing your data

But more important

Guys can we please refrain from answering questions unless you can provide a link to an official source? The questions here are addressed to 2K Greg.

 

[nokmirt]

From what I gather here is that to play Civ 5, you need to use steam. Otherwise you will not be able to play it. To me this is not fair, but curiousity killed the cat. I have to see this game. I don't really care for the idea that I do not have a choice of using steam or not. However, I am willing to try it out. So I can decide for myself, what I like and don't like.

 

[Nachts]

I would love to know if civ 5 will have a bigger zoom in the cities, so we can observe/admire or cry (lol) about our constructions?
I think this was a big mistake in previous editions. I hope we can have a better zoom on this version.

Thanks!

 

[Senethro]

actively trying to steal? = actively collecting = has a policy of stealing your data

But more important

You should have scrolled up a bit. Wotan referred to sensitive information regarding his work being on his computer. He will not use Steam because he believes Valve will steal this data. How nefarious of them!

 

[Zoolooman]

Steam is actively collecting data from my PC. 'nuff said.

Yes. Gameplay stats and the occassional system survey which has to be answered by hand. Also your DirectX level, operating system, and whether or not Steam crashed.

Obviously vital information to be hoarded and defended.

Edit: Why are you installing ANY software on a computer containing sensitive data, presumably under threat of corporate espionage?

This is why you have IT depts who manage your work computer.

 

[tom2050]

If programs like 3ds Max or Photoshop ever used Steamworks, businesses would not purchase them because I assure you they don't want it running in the background either; checking to see what their server specs are and having popups trying to sell their employees other junk with surveys. Companies can't be tied down to lose access to their software if it 'needs an update and can't connect' kind of nonsense. Also, companies probably don't want their hardware drives being auto-updated by steamcloud either. And companies would not want their software being auto-updated against their will.

It's like an annoying fly that keeps buzzing around your head, and consumers just can't get rid of it. (Actually there is a way to get rid of the fly, by using a flyswatter).

 

[Senethro]

Its not wrong or unexpected that an entertainment distribution system has features that would make it unsuitable for a business environment.

 

[Zoolooman]

If programs like 3ds Max or Photoshop ever used Steamworks, businesses would not purchase them because I assure you they don't want it running in the background either; checking to see what their server specs are and having popups trying to sell their employees other junk with surveys. Companies can't be tied down to lose access to their software if it 'needs an update and can't connect' kind of nonsense. Also, companies probably don't want their hardware drives being auto-updated by steamcloud either. And companies would not want their software being auto-updated against their will.

It's like an annoying fly that keeps buzzing around your head, and consumers just can't get rid of it. (Actually there is a way to get rid of the fly, by using a flyswatter).

Yes, if I ran a business, you'd be right. But I don't run a business and the Steam standards seem perfectly acceptable to me as a casual consumer.

You can try to hold entertainment to the same standards, but apparently not everyone does.

 

[fromeast2west]

There are tons of programs that install and run services when PCs start up that we use in business environments.

Pretty much anything from Adobe, and we use most of the here - from Acrobat Reader to Adobe CS - install and load crap like auto-updaters and start up TSRs. We prune some of them, but it's not worth chasing, even to protect 'sensitive business information'.

On a side note, you shouldn't be installing any non-business programs on a business PC. Even if you own the company, the more you install on a PC, the greater the risk the PC will have issues. If you value your business you should keep the install as clean as possible, or host the image/data somewhere remote (and there are tons of options there, from Citrix to just about any Remote PC program).

 

[nokmirt]

You should have scrolled up a bit. Wotan referred to sensitive information regarding his work being on his computer. He will not use Steam because he believes Valve will steal this data. How nefarious of them!

It does seem quite far fetched, but imagine how you would feel if he was right! I don't trust anything, and do you really think hacking in the future is going to become harder or easier? I think your under the impression that corporations would never attempt to perform a dastardly deed, like pirate your personal info and make money off of it. I wonder how much you think they care about your feelings?

If I was the CEO of a corporation, and I wanted, or was into collecting information on people, I suppose it would be easier if nobody thought I was a bad guy. My favorite targets would be folks like you. Consumers who trusted me. Those who would never believe that I could possibly do such a thing.

 

[The_Coyote]

You should have scrolled up a bit. Wotan referred to sensitive information regarding his work being on his computer. He will not use Steam because he believes Valve will steal this data. How nefarious of them!

I had seen this post, but while i would agree that you made a possible conclusion it is no inevitable conclusion. (so you can conclude this, but you don´t must conclude this). You assumed the most fitting conclusion for you, but not one that must be necessary correct. [wotan never claimed precisely that Steam collects also his the sensible informations, he only said Steam collects data]. Perhaps it was a bit nitpicking from my side, but only wotan knows the truth.

But again this thread looks more like a discussion and not like a "ask 2K Greg your Steam questions and get an offizial answer from 2K" thread

 

[CommandoBob]

Greetings Civilization fanatics!

Greetings right back at you, 2K Greg. And a very big for taking on the task of interfacing with some of your most loyal / most vocal customers. As you know, these folks are serious about their fun and all of them want to spend a lot of time with Civ-Five.

On Succession Games
I enjoy these kind of single-person multi-player games. One game, passed around from person to person, with shared notes and plans and things like that. They take several months to complete, depending on the game setup and degree of discussion about the game from the players. There is a sub-section in the both the Civ 4 and Civ 3 forums for these types of games (Stories & Tales -> Succession Games).

The Set Up
On January 1, 2011, I start a Civ 5 Succession Game named 'CBob15'. It has six players:

1. CommandoBob
2. Dangerous Drac
3. Fearless Frank
4. Weird Ole Wolfie
5. Yankee Doode Dandy
6. Zack The Snack Attack

We are playing as US since we can pronounce all the city names.

CommandoBob and Fearless Frank have bought the Civ Babylon via Steam. The others have not. Other than that, everyone has the same verision of Civ5, v1.00.

1. When I create the game with random opponents, if Babylon is NOT selected during game setup, can the others play the game, from start to finish?

2. When I create the game with random opponents, if Babylon is selected during game setup, can the others play the game, from start to finish (ie, after Babylon is met ingame)?

On March 1, 2011, Civ 5, v1.10, is released and the game is in-between players (no one actively playing that day). Weird Ole Wolfie is the current player, but has not played his turns.

If eveyone gets updated at the same time (March 1):

3. Is the current save in v 1.00 still playable?

If this is a Yes (which seems reasonable) then if only the current player gets updated on March 1, plays their turns on March 2 and then posts the turns and save game on March 2 and none of the others get their game updated (still in v 1.00):

4. Can they open the save game, now saved in v 1.10, with their v 1.00?

In the save of March 1 (v 1.00), the team had built the world wonder of 'The Great Bede Whomp'. This wonder required tech #15 and grants a bonus of extra movement for all units. It expires when tech #75 is learned. In the game, tech #65 was just learned. In the changes (v 1.10) the bonus from The Great Bede Whomp now expires with tech #60.

5. When is this change effective, this game (CBob15) or the next time I start a new game?

Also in this new version is a new leader for the US, Anthony "Tony" D. DiNozzo Jr., currently employed by NCIS. This is artwork change only.

6. When is this change effective, this game (CBob15) or the next time I start a new game?

On March 1, Weird Ole Wolfie gets updated to v 1.10, plays his turns and passes the game to Yankee Doodle Dandy, who has not updated to v 1.10, but can open the saved game with v 1.00.

7. Can Yankee Doodle Dandy use the bonus from The Great Bede Whomp world wonder (one extra movement for all units)?

Even to me, some of these sound pretty obvious, but that does not mean that the obvious answers are the correct ones.

 

[bonscott]

Great questions CommandoBob. I think one main thing is that in the Civ 4 days all the players could have 2 different installs of the game. They could all have a v1.0 for playing the succession game and then have a separate install with the latest version for regular games. I don't believe that is possible with Civ 5 being thru Steam. That would be my biggest question (if not already answered).