Civilization 6 Tier List 1.0

[CaiusDrewart]

I'm going to put Spain at the bottom which makes me sad. The only decent advantage I see them get is the international trade but that's about it.

Let's look:

+4 combat bonus isn't huge against other religions but not wholly crappy.
Create fleets earlier is not extremely useful except on maybe an Island map
The mission is a rather terrible tile improvement and even a farm get's more use throughout the game.
The bonus to international trade is quite good.
Conquistador comes at an awkward time and not hugely powerful
The extra charge on an inquisitor is mostly useless.

But all of this would be decent IF Spain was a Civ that got a unique district. Being a religious Civ they need to crank out that Holy Site early which counts against the district cap. So building your cities presents a challenge and Spain doesn't even get a bonus for a holy site like Japan or Russia and they are quite clearly defined as a religious Civ. Spain grows slow because religion actually slows them down a lot. I feel like they are weaker version of England.

I'd like to see Spain get some kind of perk to founding a religion, maybe a unique district like Russia and get rid of the mission or can we make the Mission Spain's version of the Lavra?

Yeah, I think I would rather have just the War-Cart than literally all of Spain's bonuses. The mission in particular is pathetic.

 

[theoddone]

I see your point theoddone, but I disagree.

Most city states get conquered in the Ancient era, maybe early Classical era too. That is when your hoplites come out to play.

Just liberate the conquered City states while the warmongering penalties are low/inexistant, use the extra wildcard slot to get double envoys and focus on culture to get complex goverments faster.

I was suzerain of 5 city states at the end of my game, getting a +25% in culture.

I have to admit this was all in King difficulty, so your mileage might vary.

But look at it this way, if you were doing really early wars and instead of liberating the cities, you'd claim them and instead of Pericles but have Gorgo for the culture bonus, how much more Culture would you get to snowball, especially at the start where the 5% bonus of Pericles is non existent. If you kill 300 strength of units (say 10 chariots or horsemen), thats 150 culture from Gorgo's special early while Pericles special has to wait much longer to have that impact (which possibly at that point you're already in the lead for civics). Add in a longer war and barbarians and Gorgo can quickly catch up to the higher difficulty AIs in Civics to get the highly valued Government civics.

Though I do think later on you'd be able to get suzerains more effectively (the 2 points per envoy vs a different government suzerain), I feel like by then culture is almost irrelevant as most of my games end with me researching Globalization/SocialMedia over and over as higher culture later game in Civ VI compared to V hits a wall of nothing to spend it on.

You're all so obsessed with production on single districts, and yet no one mentions Egypt and leaves her to languish as an "Okay" civ? She has 15% production reduction on every building, district, and wonder in the game right from the beginning. Certainly this saves you more hammers over-all than a half cost district or even three.

Looking at the civs above her, I honestly couldn't say Egypt better than anyone except maybe China (until they nerf the 100% production cavalry for Scythia into sell abuse I still think they're better). Unless my math is off, you'd have to build 3.33 districts beside a river each city to match the half price of a special district for any of the other civs. Often that isn't possible or will force a district into a situation where you lose some bonuses (for instance most of my Campuses have never been near rivers as they're shoved into a bunch of mountains) and 15% is pretty low compared to 50% off a unique district which also doesn't go towards the district cap for a city. Though personally I think Aztecs are actually stronger than Egypt and should be moved up as they're able to drastically speed up districts in any city with 0 production just by using builders.

 

[Abraxis]

Unless my math is off

It sounds to me like it is considering you're not taking into account the reduction to the building cost within those districts or the cost of wonders.

Anywho, I'm not advocating for a change in placement, I havn't played enough of them to even really begin comparing. Not to mention I'm really not sure this list even has much value at the moment without a more defined set of variables. I'm just pointing out what everyone seems to be ignoring -or unaware of.

 

[Esperr]

After playing a game with england I would definitely rate them higher, getting a free unit, the most modern one I might add, every time you sack a city on a different continent is pretty OP.

edit:As for egypt, the wonders part doesnt really matter, and the district thing is nice, but feels like a worse version of germanys hansa, which you get super cheap and then it snowballs and makes everything cheaper.

 

[theoddone]

It sounds to me like it is considering you're not taking into account the reduction to the building cost within those districts or the cost of wonders.

Anywho, I'm not advocating for a change in placement, I havn't played enough of them to even really begin comparing. Not to mention I'm really not sure this list even has much value at the moment without a more defined set of variables. I'm just pointing out what everyone seems to be ignoring -or unaware of.

I personally haven't tested if buildings within the districts receive that bonus but that would make it far more desirable to use than just for district placement. Problem with the bonus towards wonders is the fact that wonders have really annoying placement issues which means it's very possible that the requirements for a wonder placement would have a problem with using the special unless they're near a river. And even then 15% towards wonders is not too hefty of a bonus or else Catherine would look good as I feel most of the good wonders get eaten up by the AI really quickly aside from a few (coliseum).

For the person wondering about germany vs egypt, it's more that egypt gets placed relative to the strength of civs near it rather than compare it to the top/bottom civs, eventually if you do this for every civ you can get a somewhat agreeable tier list. Most of the civs above Egypt I feel are correct (aside from maybe China, deity makes it hard to get certain ancient/classical era wonders and most of the ones they don't go for are weak anyway).

 

[Abraxis]

edit:As for egypt, the wonders part doesnt really matter, and the district thing is nice, but feels like a worse version of germanys hansa, which you get super cheap and then it snowballs and makes everything cheaper.

Buildings. Buildings. Jesus people... buildings.

How many times must this be said.

Would it help bring awareness if i added some obnoxious colours and formating?

Everything that isn't a unit that she builds next to a river is 15% off.

If we can't even all get on the same page about the basic facts, how can we even begin to collaborate on this list?

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I don't think the real strength of Egypt is the 15% off some production items, which seems pretty modest. It's the chariot archer. That thing is comparable to the War-Cart. Much more expensive, unfortunately, but even more devastating. +8 melee and ranged strength compared to an Archer and twice as fast.

A good early UU (or an equivalent, like Scythia's UA) makes an enormous difference in Civ VI. It reminds me of Civ IV in that respect.

 

[Kwami]

Buildings. Buildings. Jesus people... buildings.

How many times must this be said.

Would it help bring awareness if i added some obnoxious colours and formating?

BUILDINGS!!! ALSO RECEIVE 15% off!!!

Everything that isn't a unit that she builds next to a river is 15% off.

No, I still don't get it. Please make your message more obnoxious!

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

A good early UU (or an equivalent, like Scythia's UA) makes an enormous difference in Civ VI. It reminds me of Civ IV in that respect.

A good unique unit in any era can make a huge difference. It is possible that UU is the most important thing about all civilizations because military investment are so good in civilization VI.

 

[Abraxis]

No, I still don't get it. Please make your message more obnoxious!

done

 

[CaiusDrewart]

A good unique unit in any era can make a huge difference. It is possible that UU is the most important thing about all civilizations because military investment are so good in civilization VI.

I agree that unique units are more important than they were in Civ V, because conquest is more rewarding. The lack of per-city penalties makes wide play enticing, and the best way to go wide is not to build a bunch of Settlers (with their sharply escalating costs), but instead to conquer.

But early unique units are way, way better than late ones. The early game is when conquest is the most rewarding and the warmonger penalty is at its lowest. Moreover, in the early game the UU makes a much bigger difference. That's when you'll be technologically equal, at best, to the AI--and more than likely, they'll be technologically ahead of you. Something like the war-cart or chariot archer can be a real gamechanger then.

Sure, in the Renaissance era the Conquistador is nice. But a) the game might already be de facto won by that point, never the case in the ancient and classical eras, and b) you could get yourself a military advantage in that era simply by outteching the AI or beelining particular units. The UU is much less needed.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Depend on map, early unique are useless in isolated game will stuff such as conquistador and redcoat are in their prime in a map which you must get oversea travle before you can reach other civs.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Depend on map, early unique are useless in isolated game will stuff such as conquistador and redcoat are in their prime in a map which you must get oversea travle before you can reach other civs.

Isolated starts are way less common than non-isolated starts.

 

[Galbias]

I wonder if Aztec's workers can rush Spaceports, considering it is a district. Their cost seems to be pretty much consistent and really high (2000 production, I think). Not a huge consideration, but kind of interesting.

I realized my post about England can be summed up in "Royal navy dockyards are an amazing UD"

I want to see a Civ with a Commercial Hub UD, seems like most of the value is getting your trade route limit up for cheap since traders can give you valuable hammers/food wherever you need them most as well as roads (or money, or even other stuff).

Thinking about it some more I'd probably put them one tier above bottom, something like:

top:
Scythia
Germany
Russia
Rome
Greece

high:
Aztecs
Japan
Brazil
Egypt
Kongo
China

mid-low:
Sumeria
America
England
Arabia

bottom:
France
India
Spain
Norway

 

[Qin Shi Hung]

BUILDINGS!!! ALSO RECEIVE 15% off!!!

While that's interesting, how many districts will you want to build next to rivers?

Even if you have a lot of rivers, you might have to sacrifice adjacency bonuses and good tiles to keep that extra 15%.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

My list (for Continents or Pangaea, Immortal or Deity):

Top
Scythia (with selling exploit)
Germany

Great
Rome
Greece (either leader, though Gorgo is slightly better)
Brazil
Aztecs
Russia

Good
Scythia (without selling exploit)
China
Japan
Sumeria
Egypt

Meh
England
Arabia
Kongo

Weak
France
India
America

Pathetic
Spain
Norway

I don't think Spain and Norway have a single above-average bonus between them. The +5 combat bonus juuuust barely keeps America out of pathetic tier. It's close though.

 

[lamaros]

My list, based on play and theorycrafting for those I've not played in depth. In general order in the groups. I've not played them all yet, so obviously I'll get a few wrong. I know others have rated Brazil a lot more than I.

Very good

Japan
Greece (Gorgo)
Aztec
Rome
Germany

Good-Very Good

Kongo
Greece (Pericles)
Arabia
Scythia (though a one trick wonder)

Average

England (Bump her up a group on maps with more continents and sea areas)
Russia
Egypt
Sumeria

Poor

Brazil
China
India
America
France

Very Poor

Norway
Spain

 

[lamaros]

Well, at the least it seems that most agree the following are good to very good:

Scythia (with selling exploit)
Germany
Rome
Greece
Aztecs
Japan

And... that Norway and Spain are the worst.

 

[LoneDragon]

Agreed. Also, if you are lucky enough to find a relic in a goody hut, it's absolutely massive. +2 food, +2 production, +4 culture, + 4 gold in the early going is incredbile. I also trade for my enemies relics as soon as I am able to

And yet stupid Kongo AI trades me his only relic for a luxury resource...

 

[Qin Shi Hung]

And... that Norway and Spain are the worst.

Norway might be very strong on an islands map.