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Civilization 6 Tier List 1.0

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Keaton_AU, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. lamaros

    lamaros Chieftain

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    They're better, certainly if there is a lot of deep sea to navigate to good settlement spots, or if all islands are small enough that most things are coastal.

    The AI is so bad as those maps generally though that it's almost irrelevant.
     
  2. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Chieftain

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    I'd put England up higher. I'm playing a game with them and I'm very impressed so far. A 50% off harbor is not a small boost, and lets you get an economy going much sooner. I got sea dogs and frigates at about the same time in my game, but if I had played it better, I might have been able to beeline redcoats instead of frigates, because I didn't realize I got sea dogs from a civic. For once, cross continental conquest is not only viable, but pretty great as England, and the +food/gold for alt-continent cities also helps Elizabeth. Even so, I'm storming the other continent and taking over everything there with my frigate/sea dog armada, and I'm now close to getting redcoats. If I can conquer the rest of the new world and get a redcoat for every city I take, I might be able to use that redcoat army to crush enemies on my own landmass.

    I'm using their civ abilities just as much if not more than I used Rome's, and way more than I used Spain's and Norway's. Special harbors are great, sea dogs are good, and getting free melee units for capturing/founding cities on other continents is really nice. England is very good. The only issue is that they're a little slow in the early game, so surviving a rush on diety might be difficult, but come the renaissance, they can conquer.
     
  3. lamaros

    lamaros Chieftain

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    Yeah England is very good on the right map. The reason I put her down a bit is that she is more situational, some maps she is much much better than others.
     
  4. Kwami

    Kwami Warlord

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    At least the aqueduct and commercial hub, plus all of the buildings that go into the commercial hub. That's probably more saved hammers than you save with Hansa. If you can take advantage of the extra adjacency bonuses, then maybe Hansa eventually wins. But Egypt is still pretty strong.
     
  5. lamaros

    lamaros Chieftain

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    Egypt is one I've only theorycrafteted to date. How powerful is the gold generation ability?
     
  6. ScorpionTDC

    ScorpionTDC Chieftain

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    Pretty powerful. Your pretty much never have to worry about money again once you get a couple trade routes going, especially if you start throwing in social policies on top of that. I think Cleopatra is second only to Victoria in the amount of gold you can amass. I wouldn't call her God Tier or anything, but Cleopatra definitely holds her own.

    Sphinx is also one of the better unique improvements. Which is admittedly by saying tons, but it's actually a little useful going for a cultural victory. I actually got a couple foreign tourists for each Sphinx I had on the map, even. The faith generation also can make religion more viable. Don't spam them everywhere, but throwing a couple down here and there is helpful. They can also go on desert tiles to avoid this going completely to waste
     
  7. lamaros

    lamaros Chieftain

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    I didn't know about the tourism side. When does that start, once you get to the next era? Just +1 per era like wonders?

    That's pretty powerful actually, as it means they do something even if they're not worked.
     
  8. RMcD94

    RMcD94 Chieftain

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    Where's the Pantheon tier list?
     
  9. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle Available in wax cylinder!

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    This is gonna go stupidly in-depth, so prepare for a Wall of Text which discusses the meta of the meta before actually getting on my tier list.

    Generally speaking, the best Civs in Civ have either been the ones that had the best, most flexible bonuses or fit the game's most optimized meta better. To analyze in Civ V, the top tiers were Poland, the Maya, Babylon and Korea. Poland was stupidly versatile, and quite literally got free stuff. However, all the other three were Science civs, be it seizing a massive advantage in the early game in the case of Babylon, or just outsciencing everyone as Korea. While the Maya did not reach the same "level" of Science as early as Babylon or as powerfully as Korea, it still was a Science powerhouse punching a ton above its weight, and for the science Civs, it was easily the most versatile of them. Drop a few levels below, however, and England, China, the Huns and the Zulu, pure war civs based around overwhelming your opponents with massive strength, showed up in the radar. Meanwhile, the more versatile civs were also featured here, such as the Inca, Ethiopia, the Shoshone and Russia; in addition, the Civs whose entire point was to be good at one victory type and that did so masterfully, such as Brazil or Greece, also appeared fairly high. On the other hand, while there were other, more versatile Civs down the list, they didn't perform so well due to not being as powerful as they need to be.

    In short, the key in Civ has always been having three good scores: versatility (how many options are open to you on a particular game), power (how powerful your options are), ease of usage (how easily can you get those bonuses) - all of that being analyzed to the meta of the game.

    Based on that, I'll rank the Civs we've so far, the 20 of them, on a scale of 1 to 10 on each ranking.

    By the way, sometimes the lack of ease of usage, especially if compensated in the other areas, can make a Civ much more engaging. It was very common for modders in the Civ V community, which though about the design of Civs a lot more than other modders, to consider how you can make something engaging - by having a very strong focus in one area, with a certain direction of things you have to do, Civs became much more interactive as you had to push for specific things, do certain specific goals rather than just follow the same old paths as it's always been.

    S Tier:
    Germany (Versatility 9, Power 10, Ease of Usage 10) - Frederick's bonuses are extremely powerful and easy to use, although there is very much a warlike style to them. While warring can be the most powerful style (and it generally is), there should be considerations that it isn't always the path followed for whatever reason. Besides, any beginner can pick him up and play him decently well - his bonuses always apply.

    Pericles!Greece (Versatility 10, Power 8, Ease of Usage 9) - What is one of the best begginer Civs in the game, Pericles shows up early on as a good, more passive, Diplomancing Civ that tears through the research tree. Their power isn't spetacular in all areas (save for Plato's Republic), but the great majority does its job extremely well, and it's very well balanced around a plethora of paths possible, save for a slight focus towards Culture - but it's like a Science bonus in Civ 5, you're basically getting more progress faster.

    Gorgo!Greece (Versatility 9, Power 9, Ease of Usage 9) - Pericles' more agressive version. The fact that she has a more warlike bent does detract a bit from the possibiltiies available, but she's still very versatile and her LUA is very useful during the early game. Her bonuses, however, are far more powerful that Pericles' are - they come in earlier, they have more effect, and they're very useful throughout the entire game still. Again, very versatile, very useful, very cultural in a way, but due to its bonuses require action it's not as versatile as Pericles.

    Brazil (Versatility 8, Power 10, Ease of Usage 7) - Pedro II does well in literally every area, although he prefers to be a bit more Science-like (with a bit of luck, he's also very Religious). With arguably the highest yields in the game, only rivaled by Tojo, Pedro's can be amongst the best. On a not-so-bright side, however, Pedro has a small issue of being almost restricted by where he settles. Since he's so limited in that way, he loses a lot of his Ease of Usage and Versatility.

    Japan (Versatility 7, Power 10, Ease of Usage 8) - Hojo's in a bit of a weird spot. He's very much a versatile guy, don't get me wrong - but he's even more shoehorned into being this Military-Culture hybrid than Gorgo or Frederick are. He can have the best yields in the game if he plays his cards right, and building things for half cost is very powerful, even if they're not the main things that people follow. Basically, Hojo can can be stronger than anyone, but you need to follow a very specific path with him to squeeze every drop of power you can from him.

    A Tier:

    Rome (Versatility 9, Power 8, Ease of Usage 7) - Trajan's strength comes in free Production, free Roads, free Gold, nearly free everything. He can go very settling-wide, defend or attack whoever's at his borders, while also growing his cities. He does a bit of everything, really. Why isn't he higher? He has to go wide. Say you're in an awful situation where going wide is not possible. Is Trajan still decent? Very much so. But if he doesn't get a strong start rolling, he can't reach maximum potential. His power is hampered by the fact that if he doesn't get a strong start, he drops in the rankings a fair amount.

    Scythia (Versatility 5, Power 10, Ease of Usage 9) - Tomyris is an example of a Civ which does something really freaking well, but it only does that something really well. Her Faith game, while above average, is meh. But dear Lord can this woman ever wreck stuff. Some of the largest armies in the game allow her to overwhelm cities with sheer numbers - and let's face it, she's not really gonna stop for anything in her path. I'd compare her to the Huns in Civ 5. Very powerful, obsecenely so in the early game, but due to a few bonuses that carried on they could capitalize on early conquests better than anyone. Past a certain point, however, not really.

    China (Versatility 8, Power 7, Ease of Usage 8) - Qin would be a great Civ - the +1 free Builder charge is one of the strongest bonuses in the game, much like increase in Eurekas and Inspiration effectiveness. They're also very very versatile because of that. Afterwards, however, while a good, defensive turtle Civ, Qin lacks enough power to truly punch into the S tier.

    Russia (Versatility 10, Power 6, Ease of Usage 7) - Peter's main issue is that he has no focus. Allow me to clarify. Peter's powers in every area allow him to gobble up territory, generate tons of Great Works, never really fall back behind anyone and even defend decently well. However, were one of his focus actually in the same direction in a way that would make you actually win, he'd lose some of his Versatility for a massive power trade off. In any case, Lavras are massively strong. Peter is, IMO, one of the best Civs in the A tier for Deity, becoming S tier as it can maximize its LUA bonus, making it actually be worth something.

    Arabia (Versatility 8, Power 8, Ease of Usage 6) - Saladin does decently in every area. He can always guarantee a Religion, he can make use of the Faith he produces, he can generate plenty of Science and a good amount of Culture, he can fight decently well. But his Ease of Usagew drops him from being an S tier contender - you actively need to pursuit things with him to make him work properly, especially in a way that's engaging. It's not so much as that he needs X to truly work, but if you want to do anything with him, you'll have some focuses and goals you don't really have in other games. That makes it a bit harder to use him in a game.

    B Tier:

    Aztecs (Versatility 6, Power 7, Ease of Usage 7) - Montezuma's not really all over the place, but he's got goals and directions that very much limit him. He's warlike, he loves his district and builders, he does decently with faith, he wants to have as many amenities as one can. It's all very interesting and engaging, but compare him to other Civs, and he pales a bit. However, notice that he's labeled as "B tier" - all Civs in here are very much usable and can dominate entire games, they're just more bound to one single goal, one single idea in general, although not always.

    Kongo (Versatility 4, Power 9, Ease of Usage 5) - Mvemba's issues stem from his path being very weird. He's definitely a Tall Civ that's also very Cultural-focused and will likely win through Tourism, granting a fair amount of power. But being gimped completely in the Religious Victory department, with a Cultural runaway, Mvemba can be absolutely shutdown, requiring him to follow other, less effective paths for his more peaceful, culturally-focused style of gameplay.

    Egypt (Versatility 8, Power 5, Ease of Usage 5) - Cleopatra does a bunch of stuff decently well... and nothing particularly great. She's very good at conquering and can get tons of incoming trade routes, she can do very well culturally and she can grow a ton too. Her only real issue is that none of this versatility is enough to carry her own weight across the finish line to win the whole thing purely on its inherent abilities.

    Sumeria (Versatility 5, Power 8, Ease of Usage 5) - Gilgamesh likes to go in and go agressively. The Ziggurat's nothing to write home about, but it does its job decently well. Gilgamesh can also help his friends with conquest, which means you'll want to join someone who's as agressive as you are, but then again, it's nothing to write home about. The War Cart and the UA really carry Gilgamesh with their overwhelming power early on. He's got an issue of being very good at the early game and needing to ride that wave, because otherwise he kind of falls off compared to other Civs.

    India (Versatility 7, Power 4, Ease of Usage 6) - Gandhi's... weird when it comes to analyzing. He's so variable that it's hard to pinpoint what's his goal. Honestly, the main thing you'll want to do is grow tall and gain tons of Faith, which grants him some useful versatility. But seeing as his abilities are too dependent on others, Gandhi's power isn't really obvious.

    C Tier:

    England (Versatility 3, Power 7, Ease of Usage 5)

    France (Versatility 6, Power 6, Ease of Usage 3)

    America (Versatility 4, Power 6, Ease of Usage 4)

    Spain (Versatility 4, Power 6, Ease of Usage 3)

    Norway (Versatility 4, Power 4, Ease of Usage 4)

    [WARNING: Unfinished, will finish tomorrow when it's not 1:30 in the morning]
     
    Ikael, CelJaded and Zantetsuken like this.
  10. lamaros

    lamaros Chieftain

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    Interesting summary.

    I don't really agree about where you're going to put England though.

    Also someone explain what I'm missing with Pedro II, I just don't see his power.

    Spain I'm going to try and force something good out of. The big problem with Spain I think is that you're going to struggle to get a religion on Deity, and he really needs it.
     
  11. KmDubya

    KmDubya Chieftain

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    Scythia - current Emperor game going

    • Without the sell exploit she is not that great, I'd put her in the average tier.
      • The good
        • Two for one builds on light cavalry is frackin awesome, especially when coupled with the +100% card. I'm making two horseman with a stable every two turns.
        • Selling off those horseman for cash is broken powerful, its basically the ability to print money.
        • The heal on kill lets you keep the conquest going.
        • Midgame cavalry zerg will clear the next continents.
      • The bad
        • War is all you have and you'd best clear your continent quickly so that the next continent knows nothing of your genocide.
        • The Kurgan is crap, not sure why you'd ever waste the builder charges on it.
        • The Saka horse archers have a very short window, they are like a more mobile slinger. Very susceptible to counterattack from melee due to the 1 range. Spears can wreck them. Plus the upgrade is not until field cannons so they have a really long period of being obsolete.
        • You need one horse pastured and an encampment or else two pastured horses. Getting the needed infrastructure can delay when the horseman come which are needed for the conquest as the Saka horse archer just doesn't have the punch to roll the whole continent.
        • Walled cities really put the brakes on your horse army
        • The upgrade for your horde of horseman isn't until cavalry which is a long long ways away.
        • Pikes will be the end of the conquest.

    Rome - first game on King won space after clearing my continent of Spain and England with legions

    • Really strong and solid performer, conquest focused but does it really well
      • The good
        • free monuments - get culture faster and without needing to build. Helps the capitol and really helps the satellite cities
        • free roads - helps with movement, no need to screw with moving traders around sub-optimally to get roads
        • free trading posts - get extra gold by routing your trade routes through your cities
        • legions - all around ass kickers. No iron required so you can upgrade your warriors, also no need for encampments. Strong enough to crush walled cities and take any unit of its era and even hold its own against later era samurai and even muskets with promotions. Can repair pillaged tiles and can even build forts eras before anyone else. Add in some battering rams or siege towers and you are a juggernaut. Useful all game they are top tier until upgraded to muskets and then infantry. Never has a long period of being obsolete, your experienced core can go on through the whole game without ever needing any other unit types except later siege.
        • Baths - better aqueducts which you'll probably need anyway.

    • The bad
      • Best going wide but that is the pretty dominant strategy anyway.
      • Isolated starts would be a problem as without legion fueled conquest they lose a lot of their shine.
     
  12. ScorpionTDC

    ScorpionTDC Chieftain

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    It wasn't a direct output to tourism as far as I can tell, but I did have 1-2 foreign tourists at every Sphinx by the last couple eras. I think it was a snowball of how much culture they produce (one culture over 300 turns is still 300 culture. Plus it gets upped to 2-3 at some point) I'm sure it's not entirely game changing, but I'll take any tourists I can get when aiming for a culture victory. It makes me curious if I misjudged France's Chateau (which is nice for culture and gold, but...... The Civ itself can generate insane amounts of tourism however) and if that would have a similar effect or not.

    The only part of Egypt I actually didn't try was the Chariot Archer. I got sidelined with other things, and never really had a chance to try it out.
     
  13. lamaros

    lamaros Chieftain

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    Only tourism produces tourists, so they must have picked up tourism at some point. Would be interesting to see which era this is, and like you say if the same applies to the Chateau.

    Probably not very significant compared to the power of seaside resorts, but if it's +1 per era then if you spam them it will add up and only at the cost of a builder.
     
  14. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle Available in wax cylinder!

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    Pedro II's yields if played properly are only rivaled by a compact Hojo. Especially Sacred Path Holy Sites or Campi. Focus on getting as many adjacent bonuses as possible, and keep the rainforests as much as you can.

    Besides, he's arguably the best at producing Great People in the game.

    I'd say he's the best at a Science Victory of all available.

    As for Victoria, she's fun but overwhelmingly mediocre. Little synergy with the UA and anything else, and she can do decent warfare and gold generation but that's about it.
     
  15. ScorpionTDC

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    They also have the benefit of being able to be placed anywhere (except next to another Sphinx), whereas Seaside Resorts and National Parks are relatively strict. Definitely nothing on the tourism power of those two, the but every little bit helps with a culture win. I think all of mine were also only next to wonders, which may have impacted it some.

    If the tourism applies to the Chateaux as well, that would definitely make the improvement more significant than I first thought (as is, I do like it okay... But it's really impractical to find a place to put one down, and it comes far too late on the tech tree)
     
  16. caiman0815

    caiman0815 Chieftain

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    I really like kongo and definetly see them A tier. Why? At higher difficulty levels its disadvantage is actual an advantage to me. Not competing for the prophets saves a lot of hammers and a tile you can use for better things. And their unique district is awesome. It effectively doesn't waste the tile (2f 4g instead of the 2f1p jungle tile). Furthermore, every relic ore sculpture is an additional yield like a good tile. And last, the unique unit doesnt need iron, and that is crucial at the early stage of the game

    And faith is not useless for kongo: just save it for patronage or buying units with theocracy
     
  17. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Chieftain

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    It seems like Civs with useful unique districts and/or discounts or really powerful unique units in the early game are favored to be top tier.

    My List

    S tier
    Germany

    Great
    Greece (Gorgo)
    Rome
    England (definitely with coast to build lots of royal navy dockyards , otherwise okay tier)


    Good
    Greece (Pericles)
    Scythia (without exploit)
    Russia
    Egypt
    Kongo
    Japan

    Okay
    America
    China
    Sumeria
    Arabia
    Aztec

    Not so good
    Spain
    Norway
    India
    Brazil
    France
     
  18. CurtisManning

    CurtisManning Chieftain

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    Don't forget Scythia's bonus also apply for the Industrial Era Cavalry. Spamming two 62 power units at once is quite powerful.
     
  19. Kwami

    Kwami Warlord

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    Is "campi" a thing, or are we just going to pluralize every -us word with -i now? Boni was annoying enough, already!
     
  20. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle Available in wax cylinder!

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    Latin word. Plural is campi, campuses is an Anglicization of the original.
     

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