Civilization 7 Soundtrack/Music discussion

[Baudshaw]

I also think Roland Rizzo's civ 6 work and civ 7 work kinda blend together sometimes

 

[evonannoredars]

Rizzo imo predominantly makes very average music (agreed, 'desert or water level music' is a very good comparison), but occasionally produces absolute bangers - with not much inbetween.

Knorr's are more experimental, and even if I think they're not as appealing to my tastes sometimes, I appreciate them a lot more regardless for being different.

 

[benjamin28]

Rizzo imo predominantly makes very average music (agreed, 'desert or water level music' is a very good comparison), but occasionally produces absolute bangers - with not much inbetween.

Knorr's are more experimental, and even if I think they're not as appealing to my tastes sometimes, I appreciate them a lot more regardless for being different.

I agree. Knorr could have settled for the formula he used in 5 and that he handles so well (a few local instruments over a grand orchestra background, an emotive crescendo). Instead, he decided to experiment. Like you said, these experiments don't always gel, but you gotta admire the ambition and the risk he takes: from the absolutely minimalistic Hawaiian theme to the heavy use of dissonance in the Bulgarian one to the melancholic and subdued tone of Great Britain.

In contrast, Rizzo has basically two modes: the direct and catchy approach, which resembles the structure of a song (the Incas, for example) or the droning, very static approach (think of the Roman theme, which I actually like). There are a few exceptions: Japan, for example, has a very dynamic structure. But that's not the usual with him. And, again, above all there's the obsession with Renaissance music and the uncanny "joyful" undercurrent that's not joyful at all.

Yes, Rizzo has composed some outstanding tracks. However, my point is: we need more composers!

 

[benjamin28]

Beyond the two composers, I don't like how Civ 7 handles the soundtrack and this is inherited from 6: it cycles between the themes of the civs you're playing against plus a handful of ambient tracks. This becomes repetitive very quickly. I said before I didn't play Civ 6. In reality, I played less than 2 hours and then asked for a refund. And one thing I remember very clearly is starting a game as Gilgamesh and then finding out that my only neigbhour in the continent was Roosevelt. So I had a soundtrack consisting in a very, very minimal Sumerian hymn followed by the American banjo. Over and over again. It was really off-putting (that's not the reason I asked for a refund, of course But it left a bad impression for sure).

I prefer how Civ 5 approached the soundtrack: you only listened to your civ's theme once, when you started or loaded a game. Something similar happened with the other civs' themes: you'd hear the peace version when you met them for the first time and then the war version when war was declared. The rest of the time you had music based on the geographical region of your civ. That was much more varied, immersive and enjoyable, imo.

I LOVE pompous music. But one problem with the 6 & 7 approach is that you end up hearing pompous music all the time and it can get exhausting. Especially in the modern age, when all the tracks are orchestrated and go ham with the loudness. If we were only to hear our civ's theme once per game I wouldn't mind the over-the-top tracks as much.

Finally, the lack of war themes can lead to some weird scenarios: I get attacked by the Ming, for example, and the next thing I hear is their very calm, very relaxing tune. I don't know if we need the return of war themes per civ, but the current model is not doing it for me.

 

[Willie5000]

You have voiced many of the concerns I had with the soundtrack.

I will preface all of this by saying that I didn't play Civ 6, but I listened to some of the tunes on my own (Malian, Zulu, Mongolian) and to some others by watching streamers. I don't know who composed what in that game, but I was aware that one of the Civ 7 composers (Rizzo) had started in that previous iteration.

After listening to the entire soundtrack from 7, I have to say: I'm not a fan of how Rizzo composes. That doesn't mean he lacks brilliant moments: there are some outstanding tunes with the Incas, the Songhai, the Aksumites, among others. In general, however, I find that his tracks are very... safe. Sterile, sometimes. Like Baudshaw commented, much of the percussion sounds the same. The tempo is quite similar in most cases too. And then there's the "insane" origin of some tracks: The hunt for red october? A Lithuanian song for Prussia? Somebody mentioned that the main inspiration for Nepal was a song from Studio Ghibli, which turned out to be false, but given these precedents, I wouldn't have been surprised if it was true.

Accuracy (or lack thereof) aside, my impression is that most of Rizzo's music is coded as happy (major chords, lively percussion, clear melodies), but everything is so stale, so repetitive that it feels like it's a forced happiness, or a sad celebration. Special mention to the two exploration ambient tracks: I'm quite fond of baroque music, but these two are not only repetitive: they're almost grating, between how corny they sound and how Eurocentric they are. I've come to the point of muting the game during exploration because I can no longer tolerate those.

The DLCs have done nothing but to reinforce these impressions:
- Great Britain (by Knorr)? Incredibly moving and serene. Carthage (by Rizzo)? It may have over-the-top percussion and horns, but the whole thing feels heavy and slow, almost tiresome.
- Bulgaria (by Knorr)? It's bold, it's innovative and includes a solid vocal work. Nepal (by Rizzo)? I know it has its fans in here, but I found it to be generic, not very representative of the region and, once more, happy only in theory.

In the end, it's all subjective when it comes to music. I hope, though, that the game incorporates more composers in the future. Plus I hope we get more and more ambient tracks: two per era (in a game that lasts hours and hours) was an insane decision.

Honestly? Just dump Rizzo and give the entire soundtrack to Knorr from here on out.

 

[MutilationWave]

Beyond the two composers, I don't like how Civ 7 handles the soundtrack and this is inherited from 6: it cycles between the themes of the civs you're playing against plus a handful of ambient tracks. This becomes repetitive very quickly. I said before I didn't play Civ 6. In reality, I played less than 2 hours and then asked for a refund. And one thing I remember very clearly is starting a game as Gilgamesh and then finding out that my only neigbhour in the continent was Roosevelt. So I had a soundtrack consisting in a very, very minimal Sumerian hymn followed by the American banjo. Over and over again. It was really off-putting (that's not the reason I asked for a refund, of course But it left a bad impression for sure).

I prefer how Civ 5 approached the soundtrack: you only listened to your civ's theme once, when you started or loaded a game. Something similar happened with the other civs' themes: you'd hear the peace version when you met them for the first time and then the war version when war was declared. The rest of the time you had music based on the geographical region of your civ. That was much more varied, immersive and enjoyable, imo.

I LOVE pompous music. But one problem with the 6 & 7 approach is that you end up hearing pompous music all the time and it can get exhausting. Especially in the modern age, when all the tracks are orchestrated and go ham with the loudness. If we were only to hear our civ's theme once per game I wouldn't mind the over-the-top tracks as much.

Finally, the lack of war themes can lead to some weird scenarios: I get attacked by the Ming, for example, and the next thing I hear is their very calm, very relaxing tune. I don't know if we need the return of war themes per civ, but the current model is not doing it for me.

Very good points. I would love a war theme for each civ, but if I could only have one thing it would be more ambient tracks so we're not getting bored. Sometimes I turn off the music and play the soundtrack from other games.