[R&F] Civilization Ability Elimination Thread

[tedhebert]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [16]
Australia - Land Down Under: [23]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [23]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
China - Dynastic Cycle: [8]
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10] fit.
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [25]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [21]
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Spain - Treasure Fleet: [2] 5-3 This is just so useless. Sea battles are not important enough to make this interesting
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22] 21+1 On the other hand, land unit ARE important enough to make this top notch. Yes, you have to wait until medieval to make use of this, but afterwards, you just steamroll with this, it's very impressive to see how strong your corps and armies get

 

[Leathaface]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [16]
Australia - Land Down Under: [23]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [23]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
China - Dynastic Cycle: [8-3=5] This ability doesn't do much for me, it definitely doesn't change the tide of a game.
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10] fit.
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [25+1=26] This ability can make you districts way, way better. A top 3 ability for certain.
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [21]
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Spain - Treasure Fleet: [2]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Ziad]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [16-3=13] - While this is no doubt interesting, it's also quite clunky. And I'd take boring over clunky. Also can be infuriating to play against.
Australia - Land Down Under: [23]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [23]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
China - Dynastic Cycle: [5]
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10] fit.
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [26+1=27] - Really fun empire building potential. Makes you wanna cluster your cities for maximum effect.
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [21]
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Spain - Treasure Fleet: [2]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[DWilson]

I think the text "fit." from the end of my post about England's UA was accidentally left in, and is now floating along in the scores. (Does that count as a correction allowing a post?)

 

[JJOne]

]
Norway - Knarr: [18=17+1] I guess the discussion is based on vanilla and RF, no GS, so Norweigan overflow is a huge bonus.

Moderator Action: <snip>

Another reminder that this is a game thread, not a general discussion thread. You should only be posting in this thread if you are voting or correcting a vote total (DWilson, your post is, more or less, correcting a vote, so it's OK). JJOne, your snipped comment should be held until the next time you vote. -- Browd

 

[God of Kings]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [23]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [23]
Brazil - Amazon: [14]
China - Dynastic Cycle: [5]
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [27]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [21+1=22] Keeps the war machine going
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Spain - Treasure Fleet: [2-3=ELIMINATED] Not really useful
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[kingofsealand]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [23]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [23]
Brazil - Amazon: [14 + 1 = 15] no other civ can get the consistent adjacency bonuses Brazil can with this power. In my current game I had early +5/6 campus and theater districts easily outdoing most other adjacencybluffs. Yes map dependent, but I've rarely had Brazil start in anything that isnt jungle.
China - Dynastic Cycle: [5-3 = 2] really could use a rework, inspirations are nice but compared to other bonuses this is very lackluster
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [27]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [21+1=22] Keeps the war machine going
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Sagax]

New
Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [23]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [23+1=24] Consistently strong on its own. God-tier when you realize how it synergizes with the rest of the Aztec's kit (except for Tlachtli. We don't talk about it...)
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
China - Dynastic Cycle: [2-3=ELIMINATED] The name makes no sense given the mechanics - even though I really like the idea behind it, seeing how it reflects China's ancient ingenuity and quick learning/adaptation in modern times. In practice, the UA has little impact - if you invested into science and culture at all, then the output will eclipse this UA completely. Well, at least China is also getting early canals now...
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [27]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [21+1=22] Keeps the war machine going
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [23+1=24] Like Japan's ability but stronger and with two more bonuses.
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [10-3=7] Weak and late-arriving.
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [27]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [17]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

Edit: Fixed, oops.

 

[local_hero]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [15]
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [7]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [27+1=28] One of my favourite abilities in the game. You get more out of every district you place.
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [17-3=14] Should this really finish ahead of China or America? I don't war much, but even then it feels weak compared to other militaristic civs. I'd rather have an economic bonus ahead of this even if I'm playing domination. And AI golden age you have no control of (although a large combat bonus).
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Human Crouton]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [15 + 1 = 16] It's map dependent, but I've never gotten a start that's bad for this. It lets you choose whichever super-powerful district you want. Want to be a religion powerhouse: you can do it. Want to be a science powerhouse: you can do it. Want the best yield theater square in the game: you've got it.
Cree - Nihithaw: [25]
England - British Museum: [7]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [14-3=11] +25% combat bonus would, at best, be an okay bonus. Putting any kind of restriction on how to get it makes it bad. I'm going to build my units in whichever city I find best to build units, and I'm going to keep my governors where they are most efficient. Should those two not be the same city, I'm not going to move my governor for such a small bonus. The bonus against civs in golden ages is nice sometimes, but it's bad for defense because it does nothing if your attacker is not in a golden age. It's also bad for offense because you'd have to attack your opponent when they are at one of their most powerful points in the game to use it.
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[KnightModern]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [16]
Cree - Nihithaw: [25+1=26] free tiles, free trade route, free trader, oh baby a triple
England - British Museum: [7-3=4] weak, buggy, even firaxis wanna get rid of this
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [11]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [ 21]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[JacquesChabrac]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [16]
Cree - Nihithaw: [26]
England - British Museum: [4]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [11]
Mongolia - Ortoo: [22]
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [11-3 = 8] I've been really unimpressed with this ability. The culture bomb can be strong, but it requires you to build a district you normally wouldn't. Converting a military slot to a wildcard slot shines in the early stages and then becomes progressively weaker.
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest: [21+1 =22] Sumeria's ability, on the other hand, rewards you for something you were going to do either way. Clearing barbarian camps becomes a source of faith, gold, eurekas, and so on. Really helpful.
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[SagarRathore]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [16]
Cree - Nihithaw: [26]
England-British Museum: [4-3=1]
Weakest and not exciting
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [11]
Mongolia-Ortoo:[22+1=23]
Goes well with Domination strategy.
Netherlands - Grote Riverien: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland- Golden Liberty: [8]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria-Epic Quest:[22]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Dutch word for "rivers" is "rivier-e-n" not "rivier-i-en". The misspelling is driving me nuts. (still less annoying than that achievement that reads "own 7 Zeven de Provinciën" X_X)

Anyway,

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [16]
Cree - Nihithaw: [26]
England-British Museum: [ELIMINATED]. Booting this for two reasons. Firstly, it will be replaced with another (maybe inferior?) ability very soon. Secondly, I can't remember who said it (Lily_Lancer? Victoria?) but someone described this ability as "just a faster way of winning an already won game" and that's precisely why this ability sucks. It makes hardly a difference in single player, other than to shorten the time you'll play your game and that's a pretty glaring design flaw imo.
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [12]: (11+1) Effectly means governors function as a free barracks in their city, except their bonus applies to *all* units (including siege) and stacks with that of encampment buildings. (up to double experience for infantry and cavalry) +10 vs Golden Age civs is amazing when the Mapuche are in a Golden Age of their own, allowing them to flatten GA opponents. Everyone is always so shocked Mapuche does so well as an AI; this is the reason: their units are always of a higher level than those of other civs and since many AIs get Golden Classical Ages, it's super easy for a Mapuche AI to start snowballing off that. Not a game-changing bonus but it drastically increases the appeal of going domination and that's always a positive.
Mongolia-Ortoo:[23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland- Golden Liberty: [8]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria-Epic Quest:[22]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Weraptor]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [16-3=13] Inferior compared to other district yield bonuses.
Cree - Nihithaw: [26].
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui: [12+1=13] +10 is a bonus which you should play around. The problem with the Mapuche is Lautaro's weird anti-synergy.
Mongolia - Ortoo:[23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland - Golden Liberty: [8]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [22]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria - Epic Quest:[22]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[Wingednosering]

This is tough. Civ abilities are much tougher to rank than units, building or leader abilities.

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [25]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [13]
Cree - Nihithaw: [26]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [13]
Mongolia-Ortoo:[23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland- Golden Liberty: [8 - 3 = 5] - Policy slot changes are less valuable as time goes on. Encampments are generally bad in vanilla and R&F. I think it's time for this one to go.
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [23]
Russia - Mother Russia: [22 + 1 = 23] - I love this ability. Better land grab for the Shoshone in V was my favourite then as well. It's FUN. It provides a great boost at the start, makes slightly later settling less awful and gives the player a lot of flexibility.
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria-Epic Quest:[22]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[DWilson]

@Legacy of Smiles wrote "+4" then added two to Australia, taking them from 23 to 25. I believe they should be at 24.

 

[WillowBrook]

[Australia corrected to correct @Legacy of Smiles vote per @DWilson post above]
Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [24]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [13]
Cree - Nihithaw: [26]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [19+1=20] I often would like to have this ability with other civs.
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [13]
Mongolia-Ortoo:[23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren: [21]
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland- Golden Liberty: [5-3=2] better than America's, but now that they're gone, time to go.
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [23]
Russia - Mother Russia: [23]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria-Epic Quest:[22]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]

 

[AmazonQueen]

Arabia - The Last Prophet: [13]
Australia - Land Down Under: [24]
Aztec - Legend of the Five Suns: [24]
Brazil - Amazon: [13-3=10] - I like jungle starts but thats because I can use them to build/grow cities quickly. This doesn't work for me.
Cree - Nihithaw: [26]
France - Grand Tour: [17]
Germany - Free Imperial Cities: [20]
Greece - Plato's Republic: [25]
Indonesia - Great Nusantara: [15]
Japan - Meiji Restoration: [28]
Kongo - Nkisi: [24]
Macedon - Hellenistic Fusion: [22]
Mapuche - Toqui [13]
Mongolia-Ortoo:[23]
Netherlands - Grote Riveren: [21+1=22] - Useful, easily obtained boost for district adj., the culture bomb is occasionally useful but being able to place good theatre districts, campuses and industrial zones is the main thing.
Norway - Knarr: [18]
Nubia - Ta-Seti: [24]
Persia - Satrapies: [21]
Poland- Golden Liberty: [ 2]
Rome - All Roads Lead To Rome: [23]
Russia - Mother Russia: [ 23]
Scotland - Scottish Enlightenment: [25]
Scythia - People of the Steppe [24]
Sumeria-Epic Quest:[22]
Zulu - Isibongo: [22]