Civilization elimination thread

[Tachii]

I kind of wanted a domination-oriented civ to at least take a spot here... whatever happened to Genghis Khan anyways? He's not as broken as Attila and his AI isn't as pissy as Cathy or Alex... shame, that. Well you can argue any of them to be domination-oriented, but they often excel at other areas more. Meh.

 

[ezbutton]

If you check the opening post you can find out which civs got eliminated and where they rank. Mongolia was ranked at 20th and there were a few reasons as to why, but honestly one trick pony civs aren't going to crack the top 10. I think the trend of the civ elimination thread has been towards economic powerhouses as the top 3 atm are China, Arabia and Incans, which doesn't come as a surprise since gold is flexible in its use.

 

[woodshadows]

"Way stronger" is an exaggeration - Korea, Siam, and probably the Inca, Maya and Persia are strong contenders alongside Babylon. And Arabia's relied on an exploit to get this far - an exploit that isn't even that impressive a lot of the time and which is completely redundant if you happen to have multiple luxuries of the types you can trade anyway. I'm not at all sure why China is still so high - I think people may have forgotten it for a while and just left it up there...

It's hardly an exploit to take advantage of the very purpose for which the UB was designed, to sell off multiple luxuries. The only exploit potential would be if someone is choosing to sell then dow to steal ai gold, but any civ can do that arabia is just better for it. I really place Arabia in top spot as the strongest civ, right after Austria, which is exactly why I play neither, they both pretty much guarantee a very easy victory without a great deal of effort or creativity.

 

[Algeroth]

Arabia 22
Babylon 25
Carthage 17
China 26
England 7
Ethiopia 7
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 14
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 17

Ok, I probably should vote for some other favorites/dislikes of mine befero, now i would be only repeating what I've said.

Maya good - they have good UB, decent UU and the UA isn't bad as some poster wrote here, it just need some planning - if it wouldn't reset your GP points, it would be _the_ strongest UA in the game. Now it still strong, just not overwhelmingly. Plus, cool colourful civ.

England bad - ok, not bad as weak, but bland. They got buff in the expansion - but without it they would be one of the first civs to go. Now they are competent, but still bland. If i want to have fun with seafaring civ, I pick Polynesia.

 

[Buccaneer]

Arabia 23
Babylon 25
Carthage 17
China 26
England 7
Ethiopia 5
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 14
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 17

Should get Arabia back up there. Still don't like the evaluation of a stronger civ only means more cities, as with Ethiopia's UA.

 

[Awsome Sause]

Arabia 23
Babylon 25
Carthage 17
China 26
England 7
Ethiopia 3
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 17

Maya: Can't believe this Civ is so low! They are by far the best Civ to go wide with IMO. When going wide with pyramids and messenger of the gods pantheon they can build up a nice amount of science. There UA fits going wide perfectly to because you will not be generating many great people when you go extremely wide.

Ethopia: A great UB but i don't think that makes up for a sub par UU and UA! A good Civ but I think its time for them to go.

 

[DGDobrev]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 5
Ethiopia 3
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 17

Upping Babylon for all the obvious reasons... If someone thinks they are not so obvious, please check the screens. There is no other civ that can plant 6 GS's by T155 and gain so many BPT at this point. And some say Babylon was nerfed... If that's a nerf, I'd like to see what was this civ like before

I am surprised that England is still keeping the front up. This civ is largely dependent on its navy, and even though having an extra spy and access to longbowmen is great, it still fails in many important aspects: 1. Early game weakness. 2. Pangaea and other large landmass maps weakness. 3. Poor AI. I never saw England being remotely close to any type of victory.

 

[woodshadows]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 3
Ethiopia 4
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 17

Ethiopia is great, all-around strong civ

England is fun but of all the civs on this list they are the least powerful.

 

[PhilBowles]

It's hardly an exploit to take advantage of the very purpose for which the UB was designed, to sell off multiple luxuries.

Was that the purpose, or was it meant to allow extra lux trades to keep happiness up?

The only exploit potential would be if someone is choosing to sell then dow to steal ai gold, but any civ can do that arabia is just better for it. I really place Arabia in top spot as the strongest civ, right after Austria, which is exactly why I play neither, they both pretty much guarantee a very easy victory without a great deal of effort or creativity.

No, the exploit lies in using the civ's UB to, indeed, exploit the AI's tendency to hoard rather than use its gold. If the AI were programmed to better-use its gold rather than hoard unnecessary quantities, you wouldn't be able to reliably trade luxes for gold (and as it is I often find myself short of civs with the gold for RAs on Immortal, let alone the gold to trade for multiple luxes).

And although Civ is a single-player game first and foremost, it shouldn't be neglected that the civ doesn't work when you don't have AI opponents, or on duel or other small maps where you have very few, and it can be very heavily contingent on starting position and particularly who it starts close to - if most neighbouring civs have the same luxes, it's no use. If you have multiple luxes you can't shift (as typically happens to me in most games on all map sizes), the bazaar gives you no useful benefit. None of which is consistent with Arabia being the "strongest civ". Like Spain stumbling on El Dorado, it can be gamebreaking when it works, but look where Spain is now.

 

[bbobb23]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 1 (-2)
Ethiopia 4
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 18 (+1)

England: Im surprised they managed to make it this far, their UA is very underwhelming and although the longbowman is great, they definitely do not deserve to be this far past civs like Greece

Siam: The extra 50% food, culture and faith doesnt seem like a lot at first but if you play with a good amount of city states, you will have an abundance of allies which means an abundance of gifts

 

[PhilBowles]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 1 (-2)
Ethiopia 4
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 18 (+1)

England: Im surprised they managed to make it this far, their UA is very underwhelming and although the longbowman is great, they definitely do not deserve to be this far past civs like Greece

The spy makes a big difference, and the Frigate is a good unit to replace with a UU - not to mention that extra naval movement is very relevant with the greater importance of navies in G&K. You also get very fast Triremes for early exploration.

 

[ense7en]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 2
Ethiopia 2
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 20
Siam 18

I know it's futile, but England is an excellent civ overall, and the best civ on water maps by far.

Extra spy! This cannot be overstated!
Having TWO spies when Renaissance is hit is huge, especially in Immortal-Diety games where you are behind.
It's extremely helpful for catching up in tech in a way no other civ can achieve.

Longbowmen are like early artillery, and great for defense or offense really.
SOTL need no sell...they are insanely powerful and wreak sea havoc for a very long period of time without match.

And the extra naval movement is icing on the cake.

Ethopia is actually a really decent turtling civ, but someone has to go.
Nice UB (really good for getting religion going), but rather restrictive UA (have to stay small/tall or you lose it). UU is just meh, really nothing great unless turtling.

 

[Uzumati]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 2
Ethiopia 0
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 15
Netherlands 22
Persia 21
Siam 18

Bye Eth, I'm not a fan of the weird UA. Couldn't get it.

I refuse to let such a fun civ be anything less then top 5. lol

I love this thread so far. Been playing alot of these civs for the first time. TY

 

[lollibast]

Arabia 23
Babylon 26
Carthage 17
China 26
England 2
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 16 early theology gets you an early boost, that easily outperforms increased GP cost, tbh what kind of an argument is that? "i don't want GPs because it increases my GP cost"
Netherlands 22
Persia 19 i don't plan on GA to win a game
Siam 18

 

[Uzumati]

Persia 19 i don't plan on GA to win a game

You don't plan them; you make GA's last forever.
My last game I finished with 115 turns of a GA. Just coming out of a 75 turn GA. Why you go freedom and buy GA.

 

[Mesix]

Arabia 21 (-2)
Babylon 27 (+1)
Carthage 17
China 26
England 2
Inca 31
Korea 26
Maya 16
Netherlands 22
Persia 19
Siam 18

Babylon is still the best. Nothing can replace the benefit of , especially very early in the game where you can get a lead and never look back.

Today I am going to down vote Arabia. Their UB (which a lot of people seem to rave about) is mostly about getting extra from selling resources or extra from trading resources. Since G&K, really isn't a problem (especially by the mid game when the Bazaar is up and running), and the extra can't buy . If I want to get more gold, I'd rather research the economic techs earlier which is possible when you have an edge in .

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Arabia 21
Babylon 27
Carthage 15
China 26
England 2
Inca 31
Korea 27
Maya 16
Netherlands 22
Persia 19
Siam 18

Carthage: To be honest I have no idea why they are still in this poll. Their UA is nice, but they are extremly map dependend, even more than England who has at least longbows AND a more useful UA fpr land maps (extra spy).

Korea: Specialist economy + one of the best (if tnot THE) OCC CIVs.

 

[Monthar]

Arabia 21
Babylon 27
Carthage 15
China 26
England 0
Inca 31
Korea 27
Maya 16
Netherlands 23
Persia 19
Siam 18

Fairwell England. Good UU's and an ok UA, but I'd rather use the Sea Beggar to capture those SoL's. Plus Netherland's UA lets me do an early rex without stunting my growth. Lastly, Polders are great.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Arabia 21
Babylon 27
Carthage 16 (+1)
China 26
Inca 31
Korea 27
Maya 16
Netherlands 21 (-2)
Persia 19
Siam 18

Carthage: To be honest I have no idea why they are still in this poll. Their UA is nice, but they are extremly map dependend, even more than England who has at least longbows AND a more useful UA fpr land maps (extra spy).

I'm using you to upvote Carthage and downvote the Netherlands.

Carthage needs to have a map with ocean, not very map dependent, since ecen Pangea has a massive coast to work with (assuming you build ONLY coastal cities, which is insane anyway). You'll almost always play maps with oceans and get something from the UA.

The Netherlands require very specific terrain for the polder, lots of coastal cities to make the UU worth it, and different nearby resources to make the UA decent.

Who is a slave to the map?

 

[Avatan]

Arabia 21
Babylon 27
Carthage 16
China 26 + 1 = 27
England 0
Inca 31
Korea 27
Maya 16
Netherlands 21
Persia 19 - 2 = 17
Siam 18

China's place in here seems to surprise some people. I really don't see why: extra general with extra power is nice since I rarely do a serious assault without one, and the citadel is now useful for both war and resource grabbing.
Two shots Gatling gun are very nice too. UB is nothing to be ashamed of neither.

Persia I like but I always feel pressured to time my war according to the GA counter and I find it stressful and suboptimal, because I'm not good enough obviously but still.

Edit: I'm too slow