Civilization elimination thread

[Dogmouth]

Arabia 18 (+1)
Babylon 18
China 24
Inca 35
Korea 30
Maya 15
Netherlands 0 (-2)
Persia 20
Siam 9

Bump to Arabia and neg to Netherlands. Netherlands dies! As I argued above, Arabia is basically a stronger version of the Netherlands with a better starting bias.

I would upvote the Incas if they weren't already running away. I think the downvotes are based on a misunderstanding of their UI.

 

[ense7en]

Re: Inca


As has been shown, terraces are a BASE 2f2p, from the beginning!
With more adjacent mountains that goes up to 3-4-5+ food and 2p, and with rivers it goes up ANOTHER 1f.
It's insane.
Even WITH the longhouse a there is no way a lumber mill remotely compares to terraces, as it takes till way later in the game to get 1f4p.

Free roads on hills, half price roads (and railroads) on regular terrain.
Again sorry, but free trades route in friendly territory only with forests is much more situational than Great Andean Road.

Mohawk warrior i can definitely agree is a stronger UU than a slinger, but if you keep the slingers alive they are quite useful for pushing in wars later on as you can play a lot more offensely with them than normal, or defensely with fewer of them.

As for situational starts, the only time you don't get the needed mountain/hill start with Inca is if you turn off start bias.
And if you turn off start bias, Iroquois also would get screwed, so again, not a valid argument.

The extra movement in forests for Iroquois again only applies in friendly territory, so again, when at war the Inca being able to move normally on ALL hills is a much larger benefit.

Honestly i cannot fathom how someone [Mesix] could argue Iroquois > Inca unless they have never played the Inca and have no idea just how strong they can be.

Speaking of which, Babylon is a rather boring one trick pony. Science, every time.
Yes, it's extremely important at higher difficulties.
It's also boring having to play the same way all the same.
Their walls are nice, sure, but pretty bleh overall, and their bowmen are bleh in G&K now too.
Only thing they have going for them is yay, free scientist to settle that acedemy and cheap great scientist slot spam.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I would upvote the Incas if they weren't already running away. I think the downvotes are based on a misunderstanding of their UI.

Frankly, the Inca would be a house even if they had no UU at all and no ability at all other than to be able to make terrace farms. It also doesn't hurt that they're fun to play.

 

[Mesix]

You don't get free roads with Inca. You get unrestricted movement in hills. That is exactly why I said the forest ability of the Iroquois is better. Free early in the game makes a big impact. If Inca had this benefit with their UA, they might compare. Otherwise, I'm not very impressed.

I was not aware that G&K had given the fresh water and Fertilizer bonus to the terrace farm improvement. This might make it somewhat more attractive. I would still rather have an Iroquois start with three forested deer (much more common) than an Inca start with three (unworkable) mountains.

...and the few times I played them, I didn't find them fun to play. Different people have different play styles I guess.

 

[Dogmouth]

You don't get free roads with Inca. You get unrestricted movement in hills. That is exactly why I said the forest ability of the Iroquois is better. Free early in the game makes a big impact. If Inca had this benefit with their UA, they might compare. Otherwise, I'm not very impressed.

I was not aware that G&K had given the fresh water and Fertilizer bonus to the terrace farm improvement. This might make it somewhat more attractive. I would still rather have an Iroquois start with three forested deer (much more common) than an Inca start with three (unworkable) mountains.

...and the few times I played them, I didn't find them fun to play. Different people have different play styles I guess.

I love the Iroquois, and I think they died to early. However, you misunderstand the Incan UA. They DO get free roads on hills, and it's very easy to build a road entirely on hills or mostly on hills, giving free or really cheap roads. Non-hill roads are half maintenence. In the early game, getting cheap or free trade routes with the Incans is approximately as easy as getting them with the Iroquois. In the late game, only Incans can build free and half-priced railroads.

 

[The QC]

Frankly, the Inca would be a house even if they had no UU at all and no ability at all other than to be able to make terrace farms. It also doesn't hurt that they're fun to play.

Exactly! Even if you avoid slingers alltogether, the Inca still rule.

And I agree with the second point too. The Inca are fun to play, and in my opinion this is BECAUSE it's situational, not in spite of it. It's fun, because you have to look around and optimize your city/road/farm placement in a way that you don't have to do for other civilizations. It's more engaging...

 

[Lord Kid]

You don't get free roads with Inca. You get unrestricted movement in hills. That is exactly why I said the forest ability of the Iroquois is better. Free early in the game makes a big impact. If Inca had this benefit with their UA, they might compare. Otherwise, I'm not very impressed.

I was not aware that G&K had given the fresh water and Fertilizer bonus to the terrace farm improvement. This might make it somewhat more attractive. I would still rather have an Iroquois start with three forested deer (much more common) than an Inca start with three (unworkable) mountains.

...and the few times I played them, I didn't find them fun to play. Different people have different play styles I guess.

When we say free roads, it means no upkeep on them. Any improvement built on a hill has no upkeep per turn. And the unrestricted movement is on any hill, not just in their own territory like the Iroquois. Honestly, Inca>Iroquois. Their UA is easily the best in the game, providing three very useful bonuses.

Arabia 18
Babylon 18
China 24
Inca 36
Korea 30
Maya 15
Persia 20
Siam 7

Again Siam just doesn't do it for me. Their UA is nice, but as was stated earlier with espionage causing so many issues with keeping them as friends and allies it's almost not worth it.

 

[ense7en]

They DO get free roads on hills, and it's very easy to build a road entirely on hills or mostly on hills, giving free or really cheap roads. Non-hill roads are half maintenence. In the early game, getting cheap or free trade routes with the Incans is approximately as easy as getting them with the Iroquois. In the late game, only Incans can build free and half-priced railroads.

Mesix you really should actually play the Inca

Oh i see, you are arguing that you have to build them...yes, you have to build the roads on hills, which are maintenance free. Free railroads later on is just ridiculous too.

 

[truenarnian]

Arabia 18
Babylon 18
China 24
Inca 36
Korea 30
Maya 15
Persia 18
Siam 9

I feel that Persia's war bonus condition is OP. I love optimizing city placement with Inca in order to see super farms.

 

[Karmah]

I ve been gone a few days and so many civs are gone !

Arabia 18
Babylon 16
China 24
Inca 35
Korea 30
Maya 15
Persia 20
Siam 10

I don t like babylon and korea , too much OP science victory so pretty dull ones , at least korea is also quite good for a cultural victory so not deadlocked into science.

Siam : Versatile ,that s quite nice. They lack a bonus with military (turn reduction for spawning ?) to be a complete swiss army knife

 

[Mesix]

Maybe I'll try Inca again and see if the free improvement benefit makes them any better. I really never found them to be much fun, but maybe with some of the changes in G&K, they are worth another go. I can see situations where having Gatling Guns and Machine Guns with the retreat ability upgraded from a Slinger might be fun.

Even so, I don't think the Inca are better than any of the other remaining civs on this list. Although I don't particularly care for Arabia or Korea, I understand their strengths and can see how others might place them higher on the list of desired civs. I initially disliked the Maya, but I am warming up to them after testing them out more and finding out how to best exploit the Long Count benefits/weaknesses.

 

[Gali]

Arabia 16
Babylon 16
China 24
Inca 36
Korea 30
Maya 15
Persia 20
Siam 10

The Inca are great fun because they allow you to warp terrain and bend the rules. Actually being able to have a trade network is really fun and means workers don't have to sit around as much. Add in the ability to make killer unique production cities and what a good time.

Arabia is really strong but only on higher levels to farm ai gold and then its an exploit since they don't even need the luxuries since they have free happiness.

On the Iroqouis doesn't the longhouse lose the base 2 of a workshop so you have to work at least 3 forests to even gain anything. With reduced need for melee, since seige is what kills cities they are only ok

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Arabia 16
Babylon 17
China 24
Inca 36
Korea 30
Maya 15
Persia 18
Siam 10

Haha, just because I've been arguing for Inca that doesn't mean Babylon isn't awesome. They're still super good.

Persia, sorry. They're good too (everyone still on the list is) but it seems to want to go wide and that isn't my style.

 

[jacksone7]

On the Iroqouis doesn't the longhouse lose the base 2 of a workshop so you have to work at least 3 forests to even gain anything.

You lose the +10% production bonus from the workshop, not the base 2.

 

[loki75]

Arabia 16
Persia, sorry. They're good too (everyone still on the list is) but it seems to want to go wide and that isn't my style.

Of the last remaining civs, I would say only China, Maya and Arabia have to go wide to reap the benefits of their abilities. Persia's GA bonus depends on how happy you will keep your civ, I think it's easier to manage hapiness going tall.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

You lose the +10% production bonus from the workshop, not the base 2.

Isn't that even worse during the later stage of the game?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Of the last remaining civs, I would say only China, Maya and Arabia have to go wide to reap the benefits of their abilities. Persia's GA bonus depends on how happy you will keep your civ, I think it's easier to manage hapiness going tall.

To be sure I haven't tried them since the GAs add to your culture too. I might have to.

 

[Lord Kid]

Corrections:

Arabia 16
Babylon 17
China 24
Inca 38
Korea 30
Maya 15
Persia 16
Siam 8

 

[Avatan]

Isn't that even worse during the later stage of the game?

It can be but don't forget that the bonus is PRE-modifier. So a few hex of forest can amount to a a bigger amount late game with all the modifiers from SP/factory etc.
The 10% is only on the base production, which very rarely more than 50.
On the contrary 3 forests is 3 hammers, and amount for a lot more after all the modifiers.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Arabia 16
Babylon 18
China 24
Inca 38
Korea 28
Maya 15
Persia 16
Siam 8

In the argument for who's better at science, Korea wins the bpt part but Babs wins the timed GS part. you get so many GS that you can settle enough and still not have to save every GS for the final push. Timing certain techs for new buildings and eras is more important to me than raw BPT. both take a great person strategy and korea benefits from all the GPeople they get while babs benefits from being able to generate more total GSs. In a science race the latter is more important, imo. I have to down vote korea as compared to Babs even though it clearly looks like Korea will beat them in this elimination.

it will be a staggering upset if Inca doesnt win this whole thing. They have pretty much been over 30 for the whole thing and led 90% of the time.