Civilization elimination thread

[loki75]

Arabia 19

Korea - What's not to like? Great civ all around.
Babylon - UU obsoletes too fast, UB isn't that great.

I think we all get the point you like korea, I mean you have been upvoting them every day for like a week except yesterday, almost always downvoting babylon. You could be a bit more varied in your choices, it feels like some AI spy is rigging elections every fourteen turns in the same CS.

 

[krc]

Arabia 19 + 1 = 20
Babylon 20
Carthage 2 - 2 = 0
China 25
Inca 35
Korea 29
Maya 13
Netherlands 8
Persia 19
Siam 11

Time to remove Carthage, for reasons others have already detailed. Trying to put every city on the coast invariably leads to some inferior city placements. Having two UU and no UB also makes them weaker than other civs.

Arabia on the other hand has lots going for it: camel archers are powerful (and one of the most effective tools for taking down Siam's elephants). Extra trading opportunities from the UA means more cash, which opens lots of different VCs.

 

[woodshadows]

Arabia 21
Babylon 20
China 23
Inca 35
Korea 29
Maya 13
Netherlands 8
Persia 19
Siam 11


Arabia is like playing a financial civ from civ iv. Money is ultra-flexible and no one does money better than Haroun. This combined with one of if not the best UU in the game, good for both defense and offense and a UA that helps you later in the game to build a large modern oil-fueled military makes Haroun probably the most flexible well-rounded civ.. for single player, for multiplayer still quite strong but perhaps not so much.

China is a great civ, I love the new citadel dynamic in the game which lets you drill citadel holes into your enemies territory and with chinas increased gg spawn rate this becomes extremely viable. Chokonus are pretty nice too, esp now that they turn into gats and machine gun. Paper maker doesn't seem so great anymore however and for some reason I find it really really boring playing as China. Something lacking in 'flavour' I think.

 

[kamikazees]

Arabia 21
Babylon 20
China 24 (+1)
Inca 33 (-2)
Korea 29
Maya 13
Netherlands 8
Persia 19
Siam 11

China: Paper maker gold is not huge, but is critical in the early game when gold is tight. Powerful, numerous great generals. One of the best UUs. Great civ for domination or science victory

Inca: Hard to criticize any of these remaining civs, but this one needs to come down a notch. Odd bonuses that do not really favor a single victory type. Slingers break formations, which can cause trouble. Have to be near mountain for UI to work. Okay, I tried.

 

[maurcus]

Arabia 19 (-2) i almost always run a pseudo mercantilism
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 33
Korea 29
Maya 14 (+1) best out of the remaining civs
Netherlands 8
Persia 19
Siam 11

so sad to see carthage go

 

[Ricard.Bossle]

Arabia 19
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 33
Korea 29
Maya 14
Netherlands 09 Polders are great!
Persia 19
Siam 09 Not really that great, imho.

 

[PhilBowles]

Arabia 21
Babylon 20 (+1)
Carthage 4
China 27
Inca 34 (-2)
Korea 27
Maya 13
Netherlands 11
Persia 19
Siam 11

Babylon is still the best. Nothing can replace an early tech lead.

Inca? Really? I think they are only still on this list because most people haven't tried them, and the couple that like them vote them up.

Their terrain improvement is too situational to be useful very often. It is only better than a regular farm if there are multiple mountain tiles adjacent to the improvement (2+ mountains early, and 3+ mountains later to be better). It is more of a forgiveness for having too many unworkable tiles than an actual benefit.

It's the value of being able to work tiles for both food and production; small cities can build up their infrastructure without compromising growth (or vice versa).

I would rather have farms next to rivers (some with wheat) and/or camps with deer and put mines on my hills for . Ideally a good city location should have one mountain next to the city to build an Observatory and some situational wonders. The Inca would be more interesting if instead of a cheesy tile improvement they had a UB which provided a bonus to hills near the city.

Isn't that what the Longhouse does with forests? I find the tile improvement approach more interesting - gives you a new option to consider rather than a blanket bonus to hills you'd otherwise just mine, and I like the graphic to boot.

 

[drakar8888]

Arabia 19
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 34
Korea 29
Maya 14
Netherlands 7
Persia 19
Siam 09

+Inca - it is a very awesome feeling playing as the Inca, one of my favorite civs. In fact I am just about to roll a new game with them.

-Netherlands - they are good, but nowhere near top8 material

 

[PhilBowles]

Arabia 19
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 34
Korea 29
Maya 14
Netherlands 7
Persia 19
Siam 09

+Inca - it is a very awesome feeling playing as the Inca, one of my favorite civs. In fact I am just about to roll a new game with them.

-Netherlands - they are good, but nowhere near top8 material

I think we all get the point you like korea, I mean you have been upvoting them every day for like a week except yesterday, almost always downvoting babylon. You could be a bit more varied in your choices, it feels like some AI spy is rigging elections every fourteen turns in the same CS.

It's surely no worse than Mesix upvoting Babylon every day since this started (though in fairness Babylon's being kicked a bit too hard at the moment).

Arabia 17
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 34
Korea 29
Maya 14
Netherlands 7
Persia 19
Siam 10

I'll also be guilty of repetitive voting this time. I'll grant that China may deserve to go down before Arabia, but now people have remembered its in the list China's getting the hate it deserves while Arabia - which differs from Spain mostly in being slightly less situational, another boom-or-bust civ reliant an economic boost that works some of the time - still has fans mistaking a weakness in AI programming for an Arabian strength.

Siam gives a per turn resource bonus from its UA, which is not to be underestimated. That bonus can apply to any/all of food, faith or culture, and scales very well both as you explore the map and as your era bonuses from CSes increase. It remains the most flexible civ on this list, as well as rewarding what is to me the most interesting style of play in Civ V. And yes, Wats from Legalism are nice to have. The elephant isn't what it once was, but it's among the better UUs remaining on this list (Cho-Ko-Nu notwithstanding), and it has great graphics/sound effects.

 

[Tachii]

Arabia 17
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 34
Korea 29
Maya 14
Netherlands 5
Persia 20
Siam 10

Ugh, most of us don't believe trading 240g for a lux is an exploit. I also don't believe it's a weakness in programming. And I mean, in order to have the gold to bribe CS with Siam, most of us will be trading g to the AI for the money. Meh, not trying to change any opinions here, but it still kind of stings to say the players are "mistaking" the weakness when it's in all likelihood intentional.

Anyways, Netherlands had a good run. But knowing the fact that it's not all uncommon for Netherlands to not be close to marshes or flood plains, it's value is decreased. His UA is undeniably good but *cough* for some it's an exploit to the game. I'll play another Netherlands game soon enough. Had a domination game with them finished at T242 sometimes ago.

Persia is back to 20! Can't really argue anything against them that much. UA is synergistic with UB, UU is very good to upgrade into Pikes, extra movement is just icing on the cake.

 

[Mesix]

It's the value of being able to work tiles for both food and production; small cities can build up their infrastructure without compromising growth (or vice versa).



Isn't that what the Longhouse does with forests? I find the tile improvement approach more interesting - gives you a new option to consider rather than a blanket bonus to hills you'd otherwise just mine, and I like the graphic to boot.

I was thinking more like a Granary replacement which gives +2 (normal for the Granary) and +1 for hills worked in the city (but no bonus to deer and wheat) would be nice. It could even have a graphic effect which changes the appearance of hill tile improvements being worked by the city to provide the aesthetic benefit.

To be honest, I don't much care for unique tile improvements in general. As I said, in my post, to get a benefit from the terrace farm tile improvement which is better than what a normal farm on the hill provides, the terrace farm requires a minimum of 3 adjacent mountain tiles (so three unworkable tiles). That is kind of a hard trade off for some and doesn't always occur. I find pasture resources and camp resources to be better examples of tiles which provide and (and sometimes as well). The terrace farm is just not good enough to replace a UB or additional UU.

Is it thematic? Sure.

Does it have a measurable game effect? Yes.

Is it situational? Unfortunately yes.

Is it stronger than the other remaining civs on the list? Not at all!

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Arabia 17
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 34
Korea 30
Maya 14
Netherlands 3
Persia 20
Siam 10

Korea: Because +2 science from GP improvements is awesome for OCC.

Netherlands: Because I promised to downvote them when I whacked Carthage. And, let us be honest, Polders are extremly situational.

To be honest, I don't much care for unique tile improvements in general. As I said, in my post, to get a benefit from the terrace farm tile improvement which is better than what a normal farm on the hill provides, the terrace farm requires a minimum of 3 adjacent mountain tiles (so three unworkable tiles). That is kind of a hard trade off for some and doesn't always occur. I find pasture resources and camp resources to be better examples of tiles which provide and (and sometimes as well). The terrace farm is just not good enough to replace a UB or additional UU.

I am not sure if I undestood you correctly, but remember this:

With G&K terrace farms benefit from civil service and fertilizer, so there is virtually no downside on them anymore. It basicially means the Inca can place a farm EVERYWHERE they want and they will always get at least the regular farm benefit. That is a HUGE improvement over vanilla! Plus: The mountains for the bonus food don't have to be inside the 3-city radius. Even if they are, one very strong tile is better than three mediocre ones - and you will rarely work all city tiles anyway (and thanks to the starting bias, there will usually be mountains and hills).

Certainly bonus ressources are better, but you don't always have them. And this leads to another interesting aspect: The map generator tries to make sure that the starting location of a CIV has adequate ressources. I guess mountain tiles count as low-value tiles, so shouldn't you actually end up with bonus ressources if you have mountains at your starting location? That would mean that the Inca can get an extra benefit from the map scripts!

So I guess for me it is the other way round: If I had to chose between Floating Gardens and the Terrace Farm, I would pick the terrace farm - way more versatile and with some luck way more powerful.
I LOVE unique improvements. ^.^

However, there is HUGE downside to terrace farms (or unique improvements in general):
They alwyys drive me MAD about the fact that you cannot place regular improvements on ressource tiles. I don't want to build a camp on that deer-hill next to two mountains! I want a terrace farm! Fireaxis, why are you doing this to me?! Why?! GAHHHH!!!

 

[DGDobrev]

In all fairness, I think everyone is allowed to vote the way he/she wants. It is quite all right to love a civ and hate another - and thus vote accordingly to see your civ win and the one you hate lose. Besides, Monthar wasn't voting for the same civ since the start - here you have an example: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11807056&postcount=858.

I, for one, vote based on the game I played last time, and since I am squeezing all of the juice out of Babylon, I have been voting for them quite regularly. Thing is, it gets a bit repetitive, so I am very interested to swap the civ for another and try other stuff too.

In the end, it all falls down to having fun playing the game and posting here Besides, only from reading various tactics here on the forums one can learn a lot.

EDIT: However, I disagree that Korea is good for OCC. If that's OCC Deity, I kinda agree, cause the AI doesn't allow you to get a lot of cities going by settling on your borders and even if you manage to get a few going, you face wicked happiness problems. However, Korea thrives on beakers from specialists, and limiting them to one city is quite a hindrance. I personally, can rarely assign more than 2-3 specialists at the same time in a city in the mid to late game, because I want to grow by working the tiles - as growth is power. In my opinion, playing Korea as OCC is like playing an ICS game with Gandhi - it contradicts the UA they have.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

As I said, in my post, to get a benefit from the terrace farm tile improvement which is better than what a normal farm on the hill provides, the terrace farm requires a minimum of 3 adjacent mountain tiles (so three unworkable tiles).

How's that? You mean after fertilizer? Even so, a Hill with three mountain tiles makes 4 food two production.

 

[Avatan]

As I said, in my post, to get a benefit from the terrace farm tile improvement which is better than what a normal farm on the hill provides, the terrace farm requires a minimum of 3 adjacent mountain tiles (so three unworkable tiles). That is kind of a hard trade off for some and doesn't always occur.

Il not too sure where your math are coming from. Correct me if I'm wrong but terraces produce 1 plus 1 for each mountain. It receives the same bonus than a farm after administration and fertilizer (?). Since a farm is 1 , a farm is equivalent of mountainless terrace. Just one mountain is enough to make it better.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And let's not underestimate the defensive Advantages of mountain, the science boost with observatory and the ample presence of hills and rivers next to them.

 

[curwen]

Arabia 17
Babylon 20
China 24
Inca 35
Korea 30
Maya 14
Netherlands 3
Persia 20
Siam 8

my favorites civs are eliminated (iroquois, aztec)... but ok all remaining civ are nice to play and have advantages you can work with ...
So inca is the best (most powerful advantage everything (UU,UA,...) is good to great and always used imo)
i nearly chosed arabian ... I would say not my play style .... but made some great games at later ages (lot of oil can be really nice when you run behind and have to solve your problem "the hard way"...)
but finaly i choose siam (i just noticed i played them only once ... for an unremarkable game...) will have to try them one more but seems at least their presentation is worse than the others and i had to crush them so many times (a war monger in par with bismarck at early ages imo ..)

 

[GAGA Extrem]

EDIT: However, I disagree that Korea is good for OCC. If that's OCC Deity, I kinda agree, cause the AI doesn't allow you to get a lot of cities going by settling on your borders and even if you manage to get a few going, you face wicked happiness problems. However, Korea thrives on beakers from specialists, and limiting them to one city is quite a hindrance. I personally, can rarely assign more than 2-3 specialists at the same time in a city in the mid to late game, because I want to grow by working the tiles - as growth is power. In my opinion, playing Korea as OCC is like playing an ICS game with Gandhi - it contradicts the UA they have.

No, not at all. Everything of their UA is useful for OCC:
They receive +2 science from GP improvements - and science is usually my biggest issue when playing OCC. With other civs I start to lag behind from the industrial age onwards and runaway AIs even win games from time to time. With Korea, you receive a decent boost from the GP tiles you will create anyway. You receive some beakers from artists you employ. Small amounts that will make a difference. And the research boost from science finished buildings is also neat.

Certainly Korea is BETTER when played with several large cities, but trust me, I have played enough OCC games - they are a great OCC civ.

edit: I also should add that I play "real" OCC. So no conquering of other cities. Capital only.

 

[bcaiko]

Arabia 17
Babylon 18 (-2)
China 24
Inca 35
Korea 30
Maya 15 (+1)
Netherlands 3
Persia 20
Siam 8

The Maya: I value a Civ that plays differently.

Babylon: They're too constrained by their valuable UA and subpar UB and especially the UU.

 

[Dogmouth]

To be honest, I don't much care for unique tile improvements in general. As I said, in my post, to get a benefit from the terrace farm tile improvement which is better than what a normal farm on the hill provides, the terrace farm requires a minimum of 3 adjacent mountain tiles (so three unworkable tiles). That is kind of a hard trade off for some and doesn't always occur. I find pasture resources and camp resources to be better examples of tiles which provide and (and sometimes as well). The terrace farm is just not good enough to replace a UB or additional UU.

Is it thematic? Sure.

Does it have a measurable game effect? Yes.

Is it situational? Unfortunately yes.

Is it stronger than the other remaining civs on the list? Not at all!

Where are you getting this math? In the initial stages of the game, 1 mountain tile without a river makes a hill 2F 2P, which is measurably better than a 3P mine. After tech bonuses, the hill becomes 3F 2P, which is still measurably better than a 4p mine. The mine only become equal to the terraced hill with a single mountain if you fill out the central line in Order. If you have 2 mountain tiles, it's not even close, because the 3F 2P tile is essentially a grass farm plus a mountain.

Are you basing your math on the misunderstanding that terraces only give 1F per mountain without the normal farm bonuses, such as the additional 1F, fertilizer, and irrigation? In vanilla, fertilizer and irrigation did not apply to terraces, but that has been fixed.

 

[Carl5872]

Arabia 17
Babylon 18
China 24
Inca 35
Korea 30
Maya 15
Netherlands 1 (-2)
Persia 20
Siam 9 (+1)

Its not that the Dutch are weak, its just that the remaining ones are much stronger. The Polder is too situational, and its not often that you have many marshes to use it. The sea begger is decent, but of the remaining UU's, its nothing to write home about.

Siam has always been a good contender as a runaway civ. Not sure if his UA includes Religious or Mercantile citystates, but even if it doesnt, the religoius belief and pledging to protect both allow your resting place to be higher and that helps Ramalamadingdong out a lot.