Civilization Request Thread

[Zantonius Hamm]

But her husband is more important.

Well Narmer came to power during the period where Egypt was a collection of city states so i figured one city state bonus, a growth bonus and a growth UB would all be fitting. That said, i like your design, though i figured food would work better for a nilometer.

Well, yeah, some Food bonus could be better.

 

[Firebug]

Because the Singaporeans are INCREDIBLY touchy about having their entire bloody city basically burned down and rebuilt somewhere else by a succession of Europeans who acted like they invented the place. They've got a point, if you ask me, but I'm a dirty bleeding-heart liberal like that. =]

Also, Natan, Morocco is the Westernmost nation of North Africa oh what's the point.

I don't want to say you know nothing, but it may be good to research before accusing "europeans" of burning places down and claiming them as their own.
Europeans don't act like they invented the place. Portuguese RAIDERS (so they weren't doing it officially) burnt down Singapore in 1613. and then in 1819 (206 years, and generates later) Stamford Raffles signed a deal that allowed him to develop the southern part of Singapore into a British trade post. because of that trade post Singapore gained more wealth and developed.
I don't really appreciate your "dirty bleeding-heart liberal" claims, honestly. The British aren't to blame for every damn colonial death or massacre and i'm sick of it.

Sorry, if that sounded too aggressive.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Because the Singaporeans are INCREDIBLY touchy about having their entire bloody city basically burned down and rebuilt somewhere else by a succession of Europeans who acted like they invented the place. They've got a point, if you ask me, but I'm a dirty bleeding-heart liberal like that. =]

Also, Natan, Morocco is the Westernmost nation of North Africa oh what's the point.

Mneh, the morality of Portugeuse or British actions during the period are totally irrelevant to me, especially since morality and legality becomes an insignificant argument when vanilla includes incredibly messed-up, immoral criminals like Montezuma, Temujin, Atilla, Isabella and Shaka and the modding scene has some very good quality nutters like Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini etc.

And even if one ignores the legality; modern, post-Rafflesian Singapore is no doubt the Golden Age of that cities history. Most Singaporeans are no doubt more proud of their history under Lee Kuan Yew than of their period as a small trading post within the Srivijaya Empire. The kingdom of Singapura wasn't even really independent until modern times; usually subject to nations which would likely make better civs anyway, like Srivijaya and Malacca. I'd rather see a civ about a small, unique, south-east Asian powerhouse than about an unimportant trading post. But that's just my evil, reactionary side talking of course

Didn't even know I had one but oh there you go.

 

[SULOMON]

Mneh, the morality of Portugeuse or British actions during the period are totally irrelevant to me, especially since morality and legality becomes an insignificant argument when vanilla includes incredibly messed-up, immoral criminals like Montezuma, Temujin, Atilla, Isabella and Shaka and the modding scene has some very good quality nutters like Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mussolini etc.

And even if one ignores the legality; modern, post-Rafflesian Singapore is no doubt the Golden Age of that cities history. Most Singaporeans are no doubt more proud of their history under Lee Kuan Yew than of their period as a small trading post within the Srivijaya Empire. The kingdom of Singapura wasn't even really independent until modern times; usually subject to nations which would likely make better civs anyway, like Srivijaya and Malacca. I'd rather see a civ about a small, unique, south-east Asian powerhouse than about an unimportant trading post. But that's just my evil, reactionary side talking of course

Didn't even know I had one but oh there you go.

Should of just said, "And the modding scene has some very good quality nutters like some of JFD's civs."

 

[Firebug]

In other news, it seems that in more recent times it is the now Lee Kuan Yew, who died just hours ago, that is considered the founding father of Singapore. But i'm not going to argue with that, its not my city.

 

[Natan35]

Because the Singaporeans are INCREDIBLY touchy about having their entire bloody city basically burned down and rebuilt somewhere else by a succession of Europeans who acted like they invented the place. They've got a point, if you ask me, but I'm a dirty bleeding-heart liberal like that. =]

Also, Natan, Morocco is the Westernmost nation of North Africa oh what's the point.

I was pointing out that a moroccan civ is done by light in the east.
(Also, Israel helped building the singaporese(if that's a word) army.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Lotsa hostility recently, it seems.

Khufu
I recognise that focussing on the modern aspect of the pyramids is weird given Greece did that in their modern civ. However I justified this because the context of these cultures rediscovering their ancient past was completely different. Greece went through a slow and painful national awakening in which they realised how linked they were to the ancient world. They poured resources and time into preserving their past and fought for it several times. Furthermore, the Greek state is what, 200 years old, and was a major world player in the 20th century.

Egypt however had their ancient past essentially pillaged during an extremely long occupation. The period in which Egypts history was truly realised didn't happen on her own terms, but at the whims of the British and French. Any Egyptian civ focussed on making the most of her ancient origins would have to represent a lowpoint of Egyptian history, which is weird to me. So I chose to represent it in Khufu.

Well, I still disagree about this, even if your justification is good, simply because it doesn't fit the civ at the time.

Revised Athens
Trihemiolia shifted to Quadrireme, thanks! I agree that the acropolis is OP but I like the specialist slot in terms of fitting with the UA. How could I nerf it? Either way I'm glad you liked it; it was really tough thinking of a way to represent democracy in civ.

I'd say the Acropolis would be powerful enough with just the additional yield, to be honest.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Alright, Khufu changed to be more powerful in the early game and less so later on. Ramesses completely changed to focus on expansionism and infrastructure, while Tut takes over the old Ramesses civ. Better?

Oh and you're right about the acropolis, the specialist fits better with the UA but the random yield is just too cool not to use eh?

Lotsa hostility recently, it seems.

Oh, I hope my comments about Singapore didn't come across hostile in the slightest, I'm terribly sorry if it did of course; just trying to give my two cents on the issue. Its not something I'm awfully passionate about at any rate and am hardly incandescent over it.

Should of just said, "And the modding scene has some very good quality nutters like some of JFD's civs."

what can I say, the man makes some excellent nutters.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

They all look much better now!

Well, it's hard to discuss morality without sounding a bit harsh, to be honest.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Hey if calling Hitler immoral is harsh, I apologise

Also while I'm doing a bit of housekeeping and shifting designs around, I've gotten rid of my Ottoman Khanate, which I never liked, and have replaced it with this Ataturk based around rapid modernisation in the industrial era -

Republic of Turkey​

Leader: Mustafa Kemal Ataturk
UA: Ataturks Modernisation
Upon entering the Industrial era, selling pre-industrial buildings yields science equal to their original production cost and permanently increases the science of that city by 1% until rebuilt. Post Industrial buildings or national wonders do not require any prerequisite buildings to be built.

UU: Kuva-yi Milliye(Replaces Rifleman)
The Kuva-yi Milliye is slightly weaker than the Rifleman it replaces; but receives the unique promotion 'Liberty or Death' which grant the Kuva-yi 10% of the combat strength of all adjacent units as a boost to its own combat strength. Furthermore, the Kuva-yi starts with the Drill I promotion if trained during wartime.

UB: Secular School (Replaces Public School)
The Secular School, unlike the Public School it replaces, decreases faith production by 25% in the city in which it is built, but converts the remaining faith into science, instead of the normal +3 of a public school. Selling a Shrine or Temple permanently increases the yields of a secular school by 10%.

Will probably keep up this housekeeping, making sure my current splits are good and making more where required (Egypt needs at least 3 more, as do Rome and Arabia) until moving on again to England or whatever.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Wow, a civ focused on selling buildings... that was my idea for Nero!

Also: three more Arabias, or three more splits? The latter sounds a bit excessive, though it's definitely possible.

 

[Viregel]

Hm, I'll have that UB, thank you very much Out of interest, is there any better name? "Secular School" just sounds a bit generic to me.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Wow, a civ focused on selling buildings... that was my idea for Nero!

Well, you know what they say about great minds eh? (I'm so used to designing civs here I initially capitalised Great Minds because my brain figured they were some kind of new Great Person, oh god )

Also: three more Arabias, or three more splits? The latter sounds a bit excessive, though it's definitely possible.

Oh, three more civs I mean, so one additional split. Same for Rome. I'd probably come back eventually and add on more splits, but for now I don't want to have any more than 6 each until I've finished every civ. I'll be adding 3 more ancient egypts but will probably come back and add on a few post-classical egyptian civs, for example. That said I'd probably find three more Arabia splits the easiest of them all, given its my specialist area in real life anyway.

Hm, I'll have that UB, thank you very much Out of interest, is there any better name? "Secular School" just sounds a bit generic to me.

Happy to help. in terms of names you could just convert it into Turkish; so Laik Okul I think. If thats a bit cumbersome, you could use idadî which were reformed schools set up before Ataturk as part of the modernisation programmes - the idea was used and built upon by Ataturk, as far as I know.

 

[Viregel]

Done, perfect, thanks Also, odd place to ask, but would you happen to have enough time/want to do pedias for Turkey? I wouldn't want to get in the way of the civ design process, but you seem to know a lot, so it would be awesome to have you do them.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Uh I could give it a go, yeah, just PM me whatever I need to do. Do you know what your UA will be, since if it isn't science or modernisation based, it probably won't work well with my UB - its specifically designed for my UA.

 

[Zantonius Hamm]

Turkey
Felt like I had to respond, but I have nothing to say. It's great.

 

[GPuzzle]

Wanted some review towards the current version of Normandy I'm working on:

The Duchy of Normandy​

UA: The Bayeux Tapestry - Units recieve a 20% combat bonus outside friendly lands. Defensive buildings provide culture. Conquered cities have a free Great Work of Art Slot, and give +2 Culture.

UU: Conroy - Knight Replacement. Available at Civil Service, has an unique promotion, Norman Cavalry, which gives it +1 Movement as well as +30% strength while adjacent to an unit.

UI: Motte and Bailey - Available at Masonry. +1 Food, +1 Culture. Cannot be built adjacent to one another, and provides a 50% defense bonus. Upon researching Chivalry, yields increase to +2 Food and +3 Culture total. Can be built anywhere and claim the tile they're built on.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Honestly I think the UA is a tad overloaded. Sometimes you can sneak more than 2 actual unique effects in by having several effects as part of one overarching effect, see:

Upon entering the Industrial era, selling pre-industrial buildings yields science equal to their original production cost and permanently increases the science of that city by 1% until rebuilt. Post Industrial buildings or national wonders do not require any prerequisite buildings to be built.

Is three actual unique effects: the science boost from selling buildings, permenant science increase for each building sold, and the prerequisite thing. But because the first 2 are part of a single overarching effect, it doesn't seem too overloaded or cumbersome, imo. On the other hand, I think your UA does seem a little cumbersome just because its like 3 unrelated bonuses loaded into a UA. I have no quarrel with each effect, they all make sense, its just too much.

As for the conroy, where does the name come from? Furthermore, how does the +30% strength bonus work? Is it for being adjacent to a friendly or an enemy unit? If its the friendly unit, that's fine, if a bit odd for Cavalry and probably cumbersome to use. If its for enemy units, surely that means nothing, given it will always be adjacent to an enemy if attacking. The +1 movement is fairly thematic though, if a bit similar to units which already get a speed buff as their primary bonus. (See: Shoshone, Greece)

I like the Motte and Bailey though, I like the effects. That said, it doesn't tie into the UA very well since the UA seems to emphasise conquering, given it only works outside of your lands, and the UI seems to reward turtling - defensive bonuses are relatively useless on the offensive.

Hope I'm not too harsh - criticism is the best way to make good designs, I think.

Turkey
Felt like I had to respond, but I have nothing to say. It's great.

Yeah, I'm super happy with it. This is one of the main civs I'd want made, if it were ever possible; along with Modern Greece, King Tut and a couple others. Big change from the Khanate, which was easily my worst.

 

[GPuzzle]

Normandy is weird. It has been incredibly defensive (most of the castles in England were built after the Normans invaded) while also horribly offensive (conquering Sicily, for example) throughout its history. Plus it's got a relatively unique culture, the Norse equivalent of Brittany.

As a result, I think that I might change that into Defensive buildings having Great Work Slots.

Conroy is the name that they gave to a group of Knights, of which they were the first to develop. Not cavalry regiments, though - those were Pedites. The promotion behaves like Honor's Discipline promotion.

The Motte and Bailey can be built like a Fort but it will claim the tile. It is supposed to be built to get a place where your units can heal, ultimately, and still be useable afterwards.

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Yeah I like that, the UA gets less cluttered and the whole civ becomes a little more synergistic, though personally I'd rather a little more interplay between the uniques and the UA but, that's just me and my lust for phat synergy in a civ. Totally personal, so go with whatever feels right to you!

What's the justification for the discipline bonus for the Conroy? Its fairly odd to use horseman en-masse in formation in game, since they work better in hit and run tactics, so I can't see it being particularly useful. Plus, historically, I don't think the Norman knights were famous for their numbers or formations but for their ferocity and speed.

Though yeah, the motte and bailey seems better now with that justification. That said, I assume it doesn't claim tiles in enemy territory? So its still not that useful for an offensive game.