Civilization VII - Firaxis Developer Panel (PAX West - 8/31) Discussion

[criZp]

Was anything major revealed?

 

[Mightymagyar]

Was anything major revealed?

No

 

[Thormodr]

Personally, I suspect that the Norse, Franks, Goths, Saxons, etc... will appear as minor states that play a large role in the end of antiquity Crisis. Is there enough we could say about, eg, the Norse before 500 AD to build a full, flavourful civilization out of them?

Depends if you consider the Norse as just from Norway or from Scandinavia. (Generally regarded as Norway, Sweden, Denmark)

Off the top of my head...

The Danish tribes such as the Cimbri launched a massive invasion of Gaul and Western Europe in 102 BC.

The Jutes, Teutons, Angles and other tribes from Denmark (Jutland) were raiding and invading and settling in the late antiquity period.

IMHO, there is enough there. You might be right in that they will just use them as crisis actors in the late age 1 transition to the second age, though.

Would be nice to play Cimbri -> Danemark -> Denmark, anyway.

 

[AriochIV]

Was anything major revealed?

The only significant reveal was that India has one civilization for each Age: Maurya, Chola and Mughal.

 

[Thormodr]

Was anything major revealed?

They did mention modders being able to create Civs right after the 30 minute mark. They had previously not mentioned modding at all.

 

[leif erikson]

Was anything major revealed?

If you scroll through the first 5-pages of this thread, Laurana Kanan did a great job of capturing screen shots and anything important is posted by those who watched it.

 

[Thormodr]

All true, but I think it reinforces my point? The examples are all very much, barbarians-against-Rome type, and all but one during the "Crisis" period of the WRE - or shortly thereafter. The Cimbri are the exception, but the only thing we know about them is the migrations and battles they undertook during their last 10 years before they were genocided (not all individually killed, but ceased to exist as an ethnic / cultural unit). That seems very weak sauce to build a civ around in my books.

It would be like wanting to have an ancient Helvetii civ as a precursor to modern Switzerland.

We don't use the term "barbarians" anymore.

 

[Haig]

What's that 'Narrative Choice' button on low right corner

This intrigues me, there's a button over end turn button that says Narrative Choice?
Is it maybe for some random event or quest?

 

[Krikkit1]

This intrigues me, there's a button over end turn button that says Narrative Choice?
Is it maybe for some random event or quest?

Probably, they showed some of those.

 

[durfal]

Yes, exactly. They were Vikings who came to Francia from Scandinavia, intermingled with the Frank women (and Frank men they didn't kill), resulting over time in a unique culture based in what is now known as Normandy. Then from there they continued to raid and settle other lands, eventually ruling lands from Sicily to England while also participating in wars from Iberia to Byzantium.

With only 3 ages, I do think you could represent that as part of the Norse culture in the exploration age if the dev team was taking the "big picture" view of civilizations, but I do like it better as an evolution of Norse or Franks - which if you skip the Franks, could be any of Gauls/Celts, early Germans, or Rome. I think Rome is the weakest link to them, but there is one. Which is one of the reasons I'm not fussed about the historical evolutions and am more interested in what makes sense in any particular game. I think the Norse could have intermingled with many other cultures and resulted in a civilization with the game-oriented characteristics of the Normans - seafaring adventurers, but now under a major religion (Christianity) rather than pagan beliefs, and with a view to settling and ruling, rather than simply raiding.

The (Salian) Franks are a Germanic tribe that lived in the Low-Lands (Netherlands/Belgium) and their decendents became the Flemish and Dutch and they spoke old Low-Franconian (which is the same as Old Dutch).
The (Salian) Franks did conquer the lands of what is now France including the lands that would be given to the Normans much later on.
The Gauls who lived in those lands were latinized by the Romans and later again there were a few noble Frankish families that lived there (heavily in the minority) and would have influenced the Vulgar latin enough that it would turn into early French, but thats it. The Frankish empire wasn't only the lands they conquered, it also included their still Germanic Homelands in the Low Lands and also many lands in Germany.
So no the Norse and Franks did not intermingle on a big scale to become the Norman.
Because then they would have spoken a Germanic mix of Old Dutch/Norse, which would have ment that English would have a lot less French lonewords.
But they did mingle with the early French living in what now is called Normandy and adopted the then Norman-French language which influenced English a lot.

 

[Prester John 2]

We don't use the term "barbarians" anymore.

"Caesar, there are ... independents at the gate!"

 

[Thormodr]

"Caesar, there are ... independents at the gate!"

Conan, the Independent.

 

[Uberfrog]

I’m particularly perturbed by Ed’s repeated erasure of the Anglo-Saxons.
There was only a few decades (within living memory for many sub-Romano-Brits) between the withdrawal of the last Legions from Britain and Hengest & Horsa’s invasion circa ~450 A.D.
Contrast that with the 600+ year time gap until the Norman invasion in 1066.
The Normans were *not* the historical successors to the Romans in Britain. They’re at best only geographically connected. It seems odd that there’s so much uproar over the path from Egypt to Songhai, but not a single mention of this on any forums or YouTube channels.

Uproar would be a strong reaction, given we’ve never had any Anglo-Saxon representation in any version of an English civ to date!

The dev’s presentation focused on the example of London. It makes sense to skip the Anglo-Saxon period in this context, because to begin with, Londonium was completely abandoned in the early Anglo-Saxon period. An urban presence was first resestablished at Lundenwic (now Aldwych) outside the old Roman city, and then inside the walls when Alfred regained Lundenburg from the Danes. But nothing above ground remains from this time (save parts of the restored Roman walls). Ed’s maps aren’t going to feature much of Anglo-Saxon Ludgate.


So the devs aren’t trying to erase England’s early medieval history, but it is not surprising that a game divided into three eras skips that part. It doesn’t exactly fit into Antiquity or Exploration, does it?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

So the devs aren’t trying to erase England’s early medieval history, but it is not surprising that a game divided into three eras skips that part. It doesn’t exactly fit into Antiquity or Exploration, does it?

Going by the other choices for Exploration, the Anglo-Saxons very much do fit in Exploration

 

[Thormodr]

Ideally, you'd have the Angles and the Saxons in the game. With 3 ages, though, where would they go?

 

[Leyrann]

The Anglo-Saxons and Normans could both be in the game as Exploration Era civs (although I would be very surprised if they're both in the base game), which in fact provides interesting historical conflict.

Just because two civs are from the same Age that doesn't mean they had to be there for that entire real-world Age, or indeed even share a timeframe at all. After all, just because we have Romans in Antiquity doesn't mean we can't have Mesopotamia, right? Yet they have no overlap at all. And Greece was also conquered by the Romans, but does that mean the Greeks and the Romans shouldn't both be in the game?

 

[Siptah]

Ideally, you'd have the Angles and the Saxons in the game. With 3 ages, though, where would they go?

If there ever is any representation of saxons, it should be based on the HRE princes. Neither the ones in Britain, nor the ones conquered by Charlemagne. Thus 2nd age.

 

[The_J]

The video of the dev panel is now available here:

(It is also embedded in the OP)