Civilization Wishlist for Civ VII

[Krajzen]

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Ivan III or Ivan IV remain my top choices for a 'new' Russian leader in Civ VII: it's long past time that they quit going back to the same Bolshoi Petr and Ekaterina and brought in a 'Russian' leader who was something other than Pseudo-Western or German . . .

Ivan III, Ivan IV, but I also dont think Russia s would be offended by Alexander Nevsky or Dmytryi Donsky or some great Vladimir prince leading them but I agree with your sentiment of non 18th century Russia for once.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Ivan III, Ivan IV, but I also dont think Russia s would be offended by Alexander Nevsky or Dmytryi Donsky or some great Vladimir prince leading them but I agree with your sentiment of non 18th century Russia for once.

Since "Dmitri of the Don" (Dmitri Ivanovich Donskoi) was both Prince of Moscow AND a Grand Prince of Vladimir he would have pretty broad appeal. It doesn't hurt that he also started the construction of the Moscow Kreml which, along with Ivan IV's Cathedral of Vasilyi the Blessed (Santi Basil's) is one of the two most Iconic Russian buildings, and he won the Battle of Kulikovo against the 'Tatars' (Mongol successors) which is one of the three great Field Battles of Russian military history, so what's not to like? He could more legitimately than most be a Russian ruler with both military and religious Uniques, and far more than most could have a Defend the Motherland Unique attribute which is generally considered peculiarly Russian.

Alexandr Nevskii has the advantage of being the subject of Eisenstein's great film which shows up in revivals every few years, which doesn't hurt his name recognition at all . . .

 

[Leucarum]

While there's options for a less contentious leader/representation, it wouldn't surprise me if Russia doesn't appear at all in the base civ7 game. Since under normal circumstances I think they'd be a guaranteed inclusion, I guess it also depends upon how far along Civ7 is and how big a hole their omission would leave in the roster.. I have to say it could be a nice chance for a different eastern-european civilization to make the base game though...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While there's options for a less contentious leader/representation, it wouldn't surprise me if Russia doesn't appear at all in the base civ7 game. Since under normal circumstances I think they'd be a guaranteed inclusion, I guess it also depends upon how far along Civ7 is and how big a hole their omission would leave in the roster.. I have to say it could be a nice chance for a different eastern-european civilization to make the base game though...

I literally thought about today is what if they do decide to make a Ukraine civ, as a good gesture?

Then again, I think more realistically is if they don't include Russia, and that's a big if, Poland would probably get in the base game. It got close enough in Civ 6.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I literally thought about today is what if they do decide to make a Ukraine civ, as a good gesture?

Will be an amazing act, but I thought fireaxis wants to avoid politics.
Another problem is a lack of leaders to Ukraine, this country just have 30 years and all leaders should be very recent one.
Of course the best option to be a leader of Ukraine should be Zelensky. Who still alive.

 

[leif erikson]

Another problem is a lack of leaders to Ukraine, this country just have 30 years and all leaders should be very recent one.

Please stop saying this and learn about the region. This is a good starting point.

 

[Leucarum]

I literally thought about today is what if they do decide to make a Ukraine civ, as a good gesture?

Then again, I think more realistically is if they don't include Russia, Poland would probably get in the base game. It got close enough in Civ 6.

Neither would surprise me, and would have my personal support, but if Civ7 is far enough along in development it could be tough for them to pivot their roster... So also just having an empty spot on the map wouldn't surprise me either.

 

[Zaarin]

I literally thought about today is what if they do decide to make a Ukraine civ, as a good gesture?

Then again, I think more realistically is if they don't include Russia, Poland would probably get in the base game. It got close enough in Civ 6.

While I disagree with Henri that standing against Russian aggression is "political," I would be surprised if Russia were excluded from the base game. Instead, I'd expect to see sales blocked to Russia and Belarus, as a number of companies have already done. IMO excluding Russia from the game would be petty; just don't sell to Russia.

Another problem is a lack of leaders to Ukraine, this country just have 30 years and all leaders should be very recent one.
Of course the best option to be a leader of Ukraine should be Zelensky. Who still alive.

The best leader for Ukraine is probably Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky, who has been dead these 465 years.

Neither would surprise me, and would have my personal support, but if Civ7 is far enough along in development it could be tough for them to pivot their roster... So also just having an empty spot on the map wouldn't surprise me either.

They've done it before, e.g. with the Pueblo and probably the Haida.

 

[Henri Christophe]

While I disagree with Henri that standing against Russian aggression is "political," I would be surprised if Russia were excluded from the base game. Instead, I'd expect to see sales blocked to Russia and Belarus, as a number of companies have already done. IMO excluding Russia from the game would be petty; just don't sell to Russia.

Of course is a political position, acctually I would like Fireaxis was more political biased. As everyone knows I have an agenda of Ethinicity diversity who only make sense if this game want to be more political correctly.

Speaking about politics, if Fireaxis want to do something, they need to take out Russia of Civ 7 and substitute for Ukraine. Zelensky as leader should have more positive inpact for the company. but can be this Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky, I never heard before about him, but if Germany had a leader as Barbarrosa (Who lived in world before Germany) why the Ukrain can't also?

 

[FishFishFish]

Zelensky as leader should have more positive inpact for the company.

There is a 0% chance they would ever add a leader who is currently alive to the game.

they need to take out Russia of Civ 7 and substitute for Ukraine.

I would absolutely hate it if Russia was cut from the game. Russia is way too important to just ignore.

 

[Zaarin]

There is a 0% chance they would ever add a leader who is currently alive to the game.

Both because a living leader can't really be properly assessed historically and because legally a living person is entitled to the rights to their likeness. Firaxis would have to pay royalties to a living person.

if Germany had a leader as Barbarrosa (Who lived in world before Germany)

Germany existed when Barbarossa was Holy Roman Empire. One of his titles was Regnum Teutonicum: king of Germany. Civilizations are not equivalent to polities or governments.

I would absolutely hate it if Russia was cut from the game. Russia is way too important to just ignore.

100% this. Modern China is no better than Russia, but that doesn't mean we remove China from the game.

 

[Xandinho]

While there's options for a less contentious leader/representation, it wouldn't surprise me if Russia doesn't appear at all in the base civ7 game. Since under normal circumstances I think they'd be a guaranteed inclusion, I guess it also depends upon how far along Civ7 is and how big a hole their omission would leave in the roster.. I have to say it could be a nice chance for a different eastern-european civilization to make the base game though...

I honestly doubt about this. Russia is a big game market and has been in the base game since Civ1, not mention its huge historical importance. But if this happens, I can see Poland or Bulgaria replacing Russia.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I honestly doubt about this. Russia is a big game market and has been in the base game since Civ1, not mention its huge historical importance. But if this happens, I can see Poland or Bulgaria replacing Russia.

Of course anyone wants to take out Russia if don't have a war right now.
But I don't see Poland and Bulgaria as possible replaces to Russia. The only replace possible should be Ukrain (or Kievan Rus, to be something more historical)
But Ukrain is better than Kievan Rus because it make more clear the mensage of pro-Ukraine

There is a 0% chance they would ever add a leader who is currently alive to the game.

Unfortunly this game have this bias of just old people in the game. Because to make the mensage even clear, should be Zelensky the leader of Ukrain Civ.

 

[Zaarin]

Unfortunly this game have this bias of just old people in the game.

There are legal and financial reasons for this. You can't use a living (or recently deceased) person's likeness without their consent and without compensation; why pay someone for their likeness when you could select an older leader for free? Not to mention that recent events are not history (general rule of thumb: if it happened in the last two decades, it's journalism, not history). Then there's the fact that the more recent a person is the more likely they are to be controversial. There are very good practical reasons why the bulk of the leaders should be from the Renaissance or earlier; even as long ago as the 19th century many leaders remain deeply controversial.

 

[Leucarum]

I honestly doubt about this. Russia is a big game market and has been in the base game since Civ1, not mention its huge historical importance. But if this happens, I can see Poland or Bulgaria replacing Russia.

I don't think it's super-likely, also because I think the consensus/hope is that Civ7 is probably pretty far along in development, but honestly... Right now it would be a solid PR move in a lot of much bigger markets.

Also if they did it, and it is late on in development, the most likely replacement would probably be "whoever has a model that could be switched up to use the leader animations they had developed for whichever Russian leader they'd picked"

 

[bene_legionary]

They've made civs that are also relatively high on the scale of (at least my personal) civilisational importance as DLC before. Such as Iran, Spain and Mali. Nothing stops them from removing it from the base game right now and adding it as DLC later, if they want to. I don't see why they should because of politics, it's not the best place for it, I think.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

There are legal and financial reasons for this. You can't use a living (or recently deceased) person's likeness without their consent and without compensation; why pay someone for their likeness when you could select an older leader for free? Not to mention that recent events are not history (general rule of thumb: if it happened in the last two decades, it's journalism, not history). Then there's the fact that the more recent a person is the more likely they are to be controversial. There are very good practical reasons why the bulk of the leaders should be from the Renaissance or earlier; even as long ago as the 19th century many leaders remain deeply controversial.

One of my old history professors used to characterize many events and experiences as "Not history, but the stuff from which history can be made."
History comes from a Greek root word meaning "to learn by study" and basically, it is hard to study anything from the inside - if you lived through it, it is Experience which someone later can make History out of.

This is why I do not think that Contemporary Events, People, and Actions are a good basis for Civs, Uniques, or named Leaders in the game: we are too close to them to make a decent evaluation of their historical importance or meaning.

Besides, with 3 - 6000 years of historical Civs, events, Uniques and Leaders to choose from, depending on the last 50 - 75 years for them seems like a sad lack of application on our part . . .

 

[Krajzen]

The most important problem with still - living or just recently gone leaders is that they, their families, supporters and or victims being alive means there are people alive today who could feel hurt and directly disturbed. Double so if they are not 'done' (dead) and we dont know about them possibly tarnishing their legacy.


A great example would by Aung San Suu Kyi of Myanmar. Nobel Peace Prize in 90s, globally respected icon of Burmese freedom for like 25 years of stellar reputation. And then suddenly it turns out being against military junta doesnt contradict virulent hatred of a minority ethnic group in which genocide she is complicit and very nasty about, therefore global public shuts down all respect. Now imagine if she became leader of Burmese civ in BNW in 2013 and then four later Rohingya massacres happen. An extreme case for sure, but a real one.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

they need to take out Russia of Civ 7 and substitute for Ukraine.

For my two cents on this... Yeah, it's a bad idea. This just comes off as armchair activism, without actually addressing anything that can actually help the people in need.

"Let's remove Russia from the game until Putin stops invading Ukraine. This will really show Putin to mess with Ukraine(not)!"

Zelensky as leader should have more positive inpact for the company.

NO, I absolutely refuse the idea that Firaxis choose leaders still alive, it's a horrible idea, will bring in unnecessary politics into the game, and as @Krajzen said,

The most important problem with still - living or just recently gone leaders is that they, their families, supporters and or victims being alive means there are people alive today who could feel hurt and directly disturbed. Double so if they are not 'done' (dead) and we dont know about them possibly tarnishing their legacy.

On the topic of Ukrainian Leaders, though, Nestor Makhno would be a very interesting choice. Would he be the best choice? No. Would he be a fascinating one? HECK YEAH!

Also, I'm back. :V

 

[Henri Christophe]

Also, I'm back. :V

I was missing you, nice to see you back