Civilizations in contemporary world - your opinion?

[Tee Kay]

That explains the Philippines... so if Angola and Mozambique became democratic and middle-income countries would you consider them Western then?

 

[Winner]

That explains the Philippines... so if Angola and Mozambique became democratic and middle-income countries would you consider them Western then?

If they also manage to forge something of a nation state, why not. But I'd first have to learn more about how deep the elements that are usually attributed to Western culture really go. I excluded most of Africa because it wasn't colonized for long enough for Western culture and institutions to take deep roots. South Africa is the obvious exception (largely thanks to the presence of a significant white minority), but it seems to me it is moving away, rather than towards the West.

 

[Tahuti]

I dunno whether this was brought up before but what defines Western? Is it Christianity, that is now fading even in the West? Or Democracy and rule of law, that is to be found in Japan as well?
Also, I'm inclined to think culture isn't a zero-sum game: Growing up with "Western" influence doesn't mean you can be influenced by other cultures as well and the other way around is also true.

A culture can never be right or wrong, since it is just nothing more than a cognitive point of view to language, art, music and architecture. Attributing political and religious point of views to cultures is therefore just plain silly to say the least.

 

[Winner]

Religion has always played an important part in the formation/development of a culture. Some cultures are influenced less, some more, some are almost determined by religion. So, if you want to dismiss religion as a relevant factor, be my guest, but save words like "silly" for someone else if you would be so kind.

 

[Tahuti]

Well, I've never said that religion and ideology aren't an influence on culture - indeed, some cultures are almost entirely an outgrowth of a certain religion - yet these influences must always be secularized and depoliticized respectively, lest they cannot be considered part of a culture.

 

[Traitorfish]

A modern-day descendant civilization of medieval Christendom.

When you say "Christendom", are you specifically referring to the Catholic (and later Protestant) world? The only partial inclusion of countries which were traditionally Christian but non-Catholic (and the total exclusion of Christian Ethiopia) suggests as much.

Religion has always played an important part in the formation/development of a culture. Some cultures are influenced less, some more, some are almost determined by religion. So, if you want to dismiss religion as a relevant factor, be my guest, but save words like "silly" for someone else if you would be so kind.

What's the distinction you're making between religion and culture-at-large? Without meaning to be too pedantic, it's not really self-evident; is Shinto part of Japanese religion or Japanese culture, for example?

 

[Arwon]

Ah, why not.

Here's a map showing the degree of "westerness" of various countries. My criteria are secret, but they include culture (language, religion, etc.), politics, economy, race, and my personal opinion.

Why are Guyana or Suriname less western than Paraguay?

GUYANA PLAYS CRICKET.

CRICKET.

More seriously, the distinction between Guyana and the rest of the West Indies seems a bit arbitrary? Are they really that different?

I also think you should have a stab at the Pacific Island states. I'd argue they're fairly western given things like sport, political institutions, language and religion.

(Hell, Nauru's had its culture so thoroughly destroyed by a century and a half of phosphate mining that their national sport is Australian Rules Football.)

 

[Tycho Brahe]

Your "what if..." was what if France had held the Meuse Line in 1940, right?

Well, it derailed already in the 2nd post (every single post since then was about Britain, not about France).

You just can't be safe these days if you post something even vaguely british-related!



In no particular order:

8. Numidian
9. Tibetan
10. Attican
11. Aztec
12. Babilonian
13. Aegean
14. Egyptian
15. Hellenistic
16. Incan
17. Iranian
18. Punic
19. Roman
20. Spartan
21. Sumerian
22. Syrian

Thanks.

That makes me wonder why there never was a spartan or aegean civ in the games.

 

[Dachs]

Thanks.

That makes me wonder why there never was a spartan or aegean civ in the games.

The same reason there was never was a civ for Bavaria or the Orkneys?

 

[Tycho Brahe]

The same reason there was never was a civ for Bavaria or the Orkneys?

Are you saying Koneczny was wrong??

 

[aronnax]

At your inclusion of Singapore, Kazakhstan but your exclusion of East Timor, Ethiopia, Madagascar and another half dozen African Nations.

And I jeer at the use of the word 'Western'. Amero-European!