CivIV 102: Running the Specialist Economy at Prince

[xanadux]

A nice productive round. In 30 turns, Athens was quite productive, building
3 settlers, a worker, and 4 chariots. Sparta is up and running, with a nice commerce boost from the gold, and already is running 2 scientists. The first GS arrives in only 8 turns. The AIs have been scouted, but there is still some land in the NE and far SE that is not yet known.

At the moment, Stalin has copper, Bismarck has horses, and Asoka has neither. Before making a new plan, I think knowing the location of iron is important. So I am going to play 4 more turns to finish researching IW before making more comments.

 

[xanadux]

Round 2 part 2

Turn 70 Asoka has built another Hindu missionary. What a noob.

Turn 71 Thebes founded. This is my planned Super Science Sity. I drop science slider to 80%. Starting to run low on gold.

Turn 72 Athens completes worker and starts on Pyramids. Barb city grows to size 2. My combat 1 chariot captures it and renames it Rice Pudding. It has Rice and Sugar. I hate rice pudding.

Turn 73 IW completed, start on pottery. 5 sources of iron visible. Right next to India's capital, South of Athens, outside its borders, N of Athens near the sheep and marble, just NE of Sparta's borders, and a bit SW of Moscow's borders.

Screenshots of the continent to come.

 

[xanadux]

The continent:

The NW:

Spoiler :

The NE:

Spoiler :

The SW:

Spoiler :

The SE:

Spoiler :

 

[xanadux]

Now there are some interesting decisions to make.

I am thinking it is about time to start on the Pyramids. The question is whether to put down one more city first or not. The spot west of Corinth will be a nice production city. If I wait until after the Pyramids, Asoka will probably put a poorly placed city near there. There is the option of having another city build the settler. Corinth can probably build the settler pretty quickly. It is almost done with its worker, and after the copper is hooked up, could build a settler pretty quickly with help from chopping the plains hill forest. This would make an empire of 6 cities.

I would like to soon add a seventh, between Corinth and Thebes. This would be a little cottage city to help with expenses.

Workers are a priority. There is a lot of jungle to clear, and I think every city but the capital is building a worker.

It is time to also consider the diplomatic front. Asoka has founded Hinduism and Judaism, and is a Hindu. He has been agressively spreading Hinduism ... I have seen at least 3 different Hindu missionaries. Bismarck founded Buddhism, and Stalin is appropriately atheist.

I am thinking Bismarck is the best potential friend. He is furthest away, so taking his land would mean a great deal of maintenance. Also, a war with Bismarck would leave my forces far away from home. I don't know how easy Asoka is to get along with, but he is getting hemmed in pretty quickly, and will have no room to expand after I found one more city. Bismarck also appears to have no metal (although this is not certain yet), so will never be particularly dangerous.

I like the idea of expanding and taking Asoka's little peninsula off his hands. There is a great city site east of Delhi, with Rice, 2 clams and fish. That's 14 surplus food working 4 tiles. So a city here could run 7 specialists at size 11. A good candidate for the National Epic.

Stalin and Bismarck have room to expand, but cannot grow very strong for a while. The only good land is the jungle between them. I need to post another screen shot. I haven't shown this area yet.

Now for the tech situation. This round I finished the Wheel, and researched Writing, Mathematics, and IW. I chose pottery next, but have not invested any beakers in it. I don't really need pottery yet, but it is cheap, and will make all the other techs I am planning on cheaper. Because of this, and the fact that I will need granaries before too long (I am thinking of switching to Representatin and Slavery at the same time after Pyramids), I think Pottery should be finished.

Other techs that will be helpful:

Calendar ... my new cities can't grow quickly until I have this. It will also allow for more commerce if necessary from the spice and incense tiles. If the empire and military grow too large before caste system, this may be necessary to pay the bills.

Currency ... for the extra trade route and selling techs for gold.

Code of Laws ... A key SE tech. Once our cities start getting to size 6 or larger, Caste System will give a big research boost.

Civil Service ... Bureaucracy for more production in the capital.

Alphabet ... to fill in the religious techs I skipped.

Calendar seems the clear first choice. The empire clearly needs bananas and sugar.

After that, alphabet may be a good choice. Asoka probably has all the cheap religious techs, and since alphabet is an optional prereq for currency, CoL, and CS, and Meditation, Polytheism, and Priesthood are all optional prereqs for CoL and CS, this may get me to CoL and CS more quickly.

 

[Dier]

I would like to soon add a seventh, between Corinth and Thebes. This would be a little cottage city to help with expenses.

Ah, I was just going to ask if you could do without cottages in this game. I love them so much, I'm starting to hate them...

Could you add some (periodic) screenshots of the city screens of the capital and science city? I'm new to the concept of SE, so it would be nice to see what choices you make/ how many/ which specialists you are running. (In a game I started last night, my capital ended up doing everything, production and research. Looks like those duties should be split up.)

Another thing I don't quite grasp is the whipping aspect. To me it seems you'd either have specialists or you use the extra pop to whip. How do the two combine?

Anyway, it will be fun to see this game progress.

 

[xanadux]

A screen shot of the area between Stalin and Bismarck:

Spoiler :

2 more considerations on the tech front:

We have Ivory, so Construction plus HBR = elephants.

Maybe alphabet first is a good idea. I would like to get Asoka's techs soon so that if he sends a settler out, I can kill it and get a free worker and prevent him from settling another city. But on the other hand, if Asoka has monopoly techs, or is building a wonder, he won't trade them.

Right now, Asoka and Bismarck are pleased with each other despite -1 relations. They must have a similar personality bonus. They are cautious towards Stalin and I with +1 relations. Stalin is of course cautious of everyone.

 

[xanadux]

Ah, I was just going to ask if you could do without cottages in this game. I love them so much, I'm starting to hate them...

Could you add some (periodic) screenshots of the city screens of the capital and science city? I'm new to the concept of SE, so it would be nice to see what choices you make/ how many/ which specialists you are running. (In a game I started last night, my capital ended up doing everything, production and research. Looks like those duties should be split up.)

Another thing I don't quite grasp is the whipping aspect. To me it seems you'd either have specialists or you use the extra pop to whip. How do the two combine?

Anyway, it will be fun to see this game progress.

I could do without cottages completely. But I have nothing to prove about cottages being bad, specialists are better. Everything has its place, and a city of just riverside grassland is IMO more appropriate cottaged than running farms and specialists. And I am going to need gold.

As for whipping, with a spiritual leader, it can be very nice for a SE. You usually have a lot of food, and the population grows back more quickly. Non-spiritual, it is much more problematic because of anarchy. Slavery may only be used once or twice because Caste System is so much more important. You aren't necessarily losing specialists by whipping. Production has to come from somewhere. If you need a building, your specialists either have to go work in the mines or die from slavery most of the time. The question of which to use depends on which is more efficient.

I will be showing more city screen shots this game. Since I don't have caste system yet, and have only one city with a library, there isn't much to show right now.

 

[stuttrboy]

I think a city west of Corinth on the hill one NW of the horses should solidify you position nicely against asoka. You may need to rex towards Stalin a bit as well, that's alot of territory up north for an agressive leader like him. check out that area NE of your capital there might be some worthwhile land up that way.

 

[xanadux]

I think 1 SW of the horses is better. The bananas will be used by Thebes. 1 SW of the horses will have 7 surplus food from 3 tiles and be able to work all 6 of its hills. With 1 farm, it can also work the 2 grassland hills in Corinth's borders at size 12. The land N of Stalin is junk. there is good land between Russia and Germany, but I don't want to get extended between them.

 

[vicawoo]

Hereditary rule can have a place in pyramids SE's, but you can go drama or calendar earlier. Also, SE's tend to have smaller city sizes due to limited/slow food sources unless you have amazing amounts of flood plains. At size 8, with +8 food, you can run 4 specialists, and I often find 2 seafood sufficient for my GP farm.
It's so much easier to win with pyramids, it probably makes that noble game whatever level is below noble.

 

[xanadux]

Round 3, Turns 73-105

Turn 73 I switch tech research to alphabet. 2 workers start chopping for the Pyramids. The last few turns they spent building roads on forests to make this quicker.

Turn 74 Hinduism spreads to Corinth. It is also present in Athens and Sparta. My scouting chariot spots iron NE of Hamburg. Bismarck comes asking for 1 of my 2 wheat in tribute. I give it to him. +1 relations are a lot better than -1 relations, and it doesn't really cost me anything.

Turn 75 The worker just west of Thebes just finished chopping the forest that was 1s of the cows. Next turn Thebes' culture pops, and the worker will irrigate the flood plain. The 2 workers near Athens just chopped a
forest. They will now both move to the plains hill to mine it. This is another benefit of having the forests roaded I can move both the workers on the same forest without losing a turn. They will build a mine, not chop then a mine so that Athens can work the plains hill when it grows in a couple turns. I am taking care not to chop any of the plains forests that are in the FC of Athens. Grassland and hill forests come first because they are the useful
tiles to improve. Plains are not very useful until workshops and watermills unless you have enough food to cottage them. You can also see I have moved a chariot to the hill N of Asoka's second city Bombay. I want to be able to see if he sends out a settler. Dr. Scout is moving n of Athens to fogbust. I already have a chariot up there. I am hoping to kill enough barbarians with one of my chariots to get to level 4 for Heroic Epic. With this in mind, I have the chariot N of Athens move towards Rice Pudding to trade places with the chariot there which has 4 exp.

Turn 76 Worker finished in Corinth, start on chariot. Ivory camped. both workers move to mine copper. There is a barb nearby, so the garrison chariot moves to guard them. Lots of barbs around. Thebes has no defender so the chariot by Bombay moves to defend that area. I move the nearby scout to the same spot. StoneHenge built in a faraway land.

Turn 77 My first Great Scientist is born. He moves to settle in Thebes. Hinduism spreads in Rice Pudding.

Turn 79 GS settled. Turn science down to 50%. I didn't notice, and let gold drop to 9. Now at +3. A barb warrior shows up near Sparta's pigs. The chariot will be 1 turn slow preventing them being pillaged, so Sparta's warrior moves next to the square.

Turn 80 My warrior kills the barb. One worker in Corinth moves on the plain hill to chop and mine it. The other starts building a road north. Both workers in Athens are building a mine on the forest grassland hill.

Turn 81 Now that Corinth is size 2, it switches to a settler. With the chop, it will be done in 7 turns.

Turn 82 Sparta completes worker and starts on a phalanx. The worker heads towards Thebes cows, and will build a road on a forest on the way.

Turn 83 The workers in Athens move to the last 2 riverside grassland tiles and start chopping. Athens switches from the flood plain to the grassland mine and is stagnant at size 7 working the 5 mines, wheat, and cows. At the same time Sparta puts its scientists to work in the fields. The 2 scientists work the flood plains and oasis so Sparta can grow. I trade Sailing to Asoka for Mysticism. I couldn't get archery too. Screenshot of techs before the trade:

Spoiler :

Turn 84 I trade Writing to Asoka for Polytheism and to Bismarck for Pottery.

Turn 88 I lost a few turns of the log because my computer crashed. I reloaded from this point. I was actually four turns further, but not much happened between turns 84-88, but quite a bit to mention the next 4 turns.
Sparta finishes Phalanx and starts on granary. Corinth finishes settler and returns to chariot. There has been a settler sitting in Bombary for several turns. I guess Asoka is building an escort for it. There is a warrior and
an archer in Bombay, guess that's not enough. My workers in Thebes have finished the cow pasture, and one goes to a forest grassland, and the other to forest hill to chop a granary. I switch Thebes off the 2 flood plain tiles to
a plains forest and the grassland hill forest. I want to delay growth until after the granary is chopped. This way I still get the food I would have had stored by the granary, but also get some extra hammers. Barb archers start to appear.

Turn 89 Pyramids completed. Athens starts on a granary. I switch civics to Representation. I thought about switching to slavery, but I don't think I will use it in the near future. Most of my cities will have good enough production not to need it, and it costs me 2 more gold and the chance of the slave revolt random event. One more thing I did recently is once Athens grew to size 7 and all the mines were done about 6 turns ago, Athens switched off the FP for a mine. Sparta made its 2 scientists go work the flood plains and oasis for 5 turns to grow, then back to the labs. You have to grow sometimes, and whenever Athens isn't using that flood plain, it should be used by Sparta to grow.

Turn 90 Argos is founded SW of the horses, W of Corinth. With representation, beakers per turn has raised from 35 to 46. This will soon skyrocket as my cities get developed, run more scientists, and more Great Scientists arrive. I drop the science slider again to 40% to keep from losing gold. Argos starts on a library to battle the culture of Bombay

Turn 91 Thebes completes granary and the overflow goes into the library. A screenshot of the city:

Spoiler :

This is at the beginning of the turn, showing how I limited growth to get the granary finished before growth. This same turn, I switched to max food.

Turn 92 Thebes completes Library and starts on phalanx. It is now running 1 scientist and working 2 flood plains and the cows.

Turn 93 Bismarck builds Temple of Artemis, and Confucianism is founded in a distant land. Granary completed in Athens, and I start on a Barracks. About this time, Calendar is completed, and I switch to Currency.

Turn 94 A great Spy is born in Berlin.

Turn 95 Thebes grows to size 5, and is now working 2 FP, cows, and running 2 scientists. Bismarck starts a Golden Age. What a waste of an early Great Spy. Rice Pudding completes worker and starts on granary. I Hate Rice Pudding so much I am forced to rename it Aristottleville. My 5 exp chariot dies to an archer. I move my new phalanx from Sparta to kill the archer.

Turn 97 I know have 7 workers. 2 have just finished the horse pastrure and road near Argos. They each move to one of the sugars to build a road, then both will plantation a sugar. 3 are at Thebes, working on the bananas. 1 is in Athens, farming the grasslands. The last is building a road to the rice in Aristottleville and will then irrigate it.

Turn 98 My phalanx kills the archer.

Turn 99 Granary completed in Corinth, start on Barracks for a turn, will grow in 1 turn. Sparta completes granary and starts on another worker. Athens completes phalanx and starts on another. My scouts in Stalin's territory
reveal that he has a 4th city already at size 3 S of Moscow, and has started building swords and axes. Athens will continue building phalanxes. I don't trust Stalin.

Turn 100 Great Scientist born in Sparta, it moves to Thebes. Thebes completes phalanx and starts on Barracks. Corinth has grown to size 4 and switches to a worker. When you have a lot of jungle, you need a lot of workers.

Turn 101 Great scientist builds an academy in Thebes. This plus raising the science slider to 50% at -1 gold shaves a turn off CoL. Currency finished, start on CoL. I trade Math to Asoka for Meditation, Monotheism, and 20 gold. I trade Math to Bismarck for Priesthood, Archery, and 40 gold. This drops research time for CoL by 1 turn.

Turn 102 Stalin's 5th city founded SE of Moscow.

Turn 103 Phalanx completed in Athens, start on phalanx.

Turn 104 Stalin converts to Judaism. Corinth completes worker and goes back to barracks, and the worker goes to work the bananas. My other workers are improving the resource tiles of Argos and Aristottleville.

Turn 105 CoL completed, start on Aesthetics. Athens completes phalanx and starts on settler. Argos completes Library and starts on Granary. End of round. I can switch to both Organized Religion (OR) and Caste System in one turn.

Comments and more screenshots to come soon.

 

[xanadux]

Some screenshots:

The continent is now completely scouted.

The far NE:

Spoiler :

The area between Russia and Germany (Poland?):

Spoiler :

AI techs:

Spoiler :

And the Demographics screen:

Spoiler :

I have a significant lead in all important areas. The power of REX.

 

[xanadux]

I just finished CoL. I chose Aesthetics, but am thinking that Civil Service would be a better choice. I will want the marble city founded before building the Parthenon, so I see no reason not to get CS first for Bureaucracy.

The diplomatic front has changed considerably. Almost all of my cities have Hinduism thanks to Asoka's relentless missionary spam. Asoka has also been the first to Theology, and he will probably build the Apostolic Palace. I am thinking that converting to Hinduism, and letting Asoka survive at least as long to build the AP and the Hindu shrine is a good idea. Since he built the Oracle, likely his first GP will be a Great Prophet used for the Hindu shrine. Asoka highly values another civ with the same state religion, so adopting Hinduism should make him a close friend. Bismarck does not value religion as much, so being a different religion probably won't make us enemies. Stalin is the wildcard here, and is already building offensive units (swordsmen). Although I really want Asoka's land, Stalin is clearly the biggest threat.

In the long run, the entire continent should be mine. The question is what to do in the short run.

Goals for round 4:

continued development of economy and production.
Continue to develop military for defense.
Found the marble city to help with useful wonders.
Build the Parthenon and Great Library.

Questions for round 4:

Should I befriend Asoka, and prepare for war with Stalin?
If so, should I convert to Hinduism ... this should make Asoka a close friend,
but may alienate Stalin and Bismarck.
What techs should I pursue?
HBR is very attractive. With a stables in Athens, I can build shock Horse Archers that will have high mobility to defend a large front with Russia.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I think you should convert to Hinduism, if not to befriend Asoka, but to get the Bonus from the Apotolitic palace religion. 2 hammers per religious building, isn't to be missed.

Stalin, what makes you think he's coming after you, it seems Bismark is expanding towards stalin, and stalin towards him, so they seem likely enemies, though being No 4 on power rating, makes you look like a juicy target.

Personally I'm not big on Horse archers, Charriots then Knights for axes then Crossbow's....and SPEAR'S...oh boy...do you ever need spears with the A.I.'s relentless SPAMMING of horse archers.....

Tech's, metal casting and machinary....Crossbow's and Forges....further ahead, Knights and pikeman for the Middle age dominance.
It seems to be programmed to beat you down to the stone age, then beat your head in with clubs....

Let Asoka do all the heavy building, means less hammers into troops/defence, once palace is built, and you've converted BEFORE hand, take it over. Not only do you get hammer bonus, but taking Asoka's cities, you get a religion modifier, so 1 extra worker, 2 extra hammers, and more production/gold/science.

Stalins a Jew, Bismarks a Buddist, and your Hindu....seems the other lands will be a confuscian alliance........

 

[UncleJJ]

It is a good idea to let Asoka do the heavy religious work with regard to the Apolostic Palace and Hindu Shrine and then liberate them and put Asok to rest. He's got good land conveniently placed. You will benefit from a religion so you can run Pacifism during a GA if no other reason , although I find OR and Theocracy to be very useful civics as well. As soon as you get a religious civic you want to run, convert to Hinduism.

Stalin could be a problem if he's building for war. I suggest your best option against him is to research HBR and Construction. A combined force of catapults and elephants (built with stables and maybe Theocracy) will crash through anything he has, even Longbows as long as you reduce the defences and soften defenders first. That should be you main goal from now on, take out Stalin or Vassalise after taking his capital. Has he built any wonders yet? Maybe wait until he completes something juicy. With Stalin's cities and your own Bismark will be easy to take by shear force even if he's ahead on technology (which I doubt).

 

[TheWilltoAct]

I haven't read the whole thread yet... I just wanted to quickly note that I think Pericles is a ridiculously awesome leader... sick trait synergy and a superb UB!!!

UU sux though imo...

 

[xanadux]

@IPEX

I'm not a big Horse Archer fan either, but I think a few things in this game suggest it is safest to go ahead grab HBR and build a few. I'm not talking about an army of them, but maybe 3 or 4 for mobile defense. Since I have Ivory, grabbing HBR for some elephants makes sense. I don't necessarily think that Stalin is coming after me, but he is an Aggressive leader, and if anything true to Real Life, unstable. He is starting to build up an offensive army, and I can't be sure he is going for Bismarck. Ideally I will get Bismarck and Stalin into a war with each other, but if that fails, I should be prepared.

Getting Horse Archers is sort of a safety play. Being prepared for whatever might happen is a good idea. Even the best of AI friends will eventually attack you if hemmed in with pressed borders. I haven't played this game enough to really have a good idea of the personalities of all the AI leaders and what I can expect of them. Stalin is expanding the fastest of the 3 AI and has the most productive land. Asoka is neglecting military, but I have him boxed in. Bismarck from my experience is a pretty stable friend, and our borders aren't pressed yet. But I know he is capable of beelining military techs and spamming units. Some Horse Archer units along with continued scouting should allow me to bring defense to any part of my empire before the AI arrives.

My thoughts on the situation pretty much mirror UncleJJ's.

 

[xanadux]

Round 4, turns 105 (250BC) to 132 (450AD)

In this round, peaceful expansion is completed, and city development is balanced with military development, in both teching and city builds.

Turn 105 I switch techs to Civil Service and convert to Hinduism. Bureaucracy will give my capital a very big production boost. Civil Service will also allow chain irrigation, which I don't need immediately, but will be necessary for my 2 SW cities to reach full potential. Additionally, macemen will be available with machinery. The biggest reason to get Civil Service now is so that the capital can carry most of the load of military production while my other cities develop.

Turn 106 I change civics to Caste System and Organized Religion. Caste System is probably the most key tech for my economy. I can now run as many scientists as I want. Organized Religion will come in quite handy as my new cities have quite a few useful buildings to complete.

Turn 107 Now that I have caste System, Thebes is now running 4 scientists and still growing:

Spoiler :

Turn 109 Corinth completes Barracks and starts on courthouse. Sparta completes woker and starts on courthouse.

Turn 110 Asoka comes offering monarchy and 30 gold for Calendar. I agree. Thebes completes barracks and starts on courthouse. Athens completes settler and starts on market.

Turn 112 I find a barb city at the marble site. The nearby phalanx and 3 phalanxes stationed in Sparta move to take the city.

Turn 113 Bismarck got a great prophet last turn, and this turn uses it to build the Mahabodhi.

Turn 114 GS aristotle is born in Thebes and settles there. Thebes is now size 9 and working the 4 food tiles plus 5 scientists.

Turn 115 Judaism spreads to Thebes. Taoism founded in a distant land.

Turn 116 Great Prophet born in India. Hopefully he will build the Hindu shrine for me Athens completes market and starts on Hindu temple.

Turn 117 CS completed. I start on HBR. With stables, I can build shock Horse archers to defend my borders. I normally wouldn't do this, but my borders are long, and mounted units are ideal defenders of long borders. Additionally, since I have Ivory, I can build war elephants as soon as I get construction. Asoka builds the Kashi Vishwanath with his GP. Nice. when I take Delhi, it will produce a lot of gold thanks to Asoka's hard work of spreading Hinduism. Also, from another thread I read, I believe Asoka having the Hindu shrine makes him that much happier that I am a Hindu (another +1 relations). My 3 phalanxes attack the barb city. I lose at 63%, win at 63% with a lot of damage, then lose at 95%. I switch civics to Bureaucracy.

Turn 118 My damaged phalanx has only 2% odds of taking the barb city, even with CR2. He withdraws to heal and Dr. Scout heads over to help. My other phalanx N of Sparta also starts heading over in case he is needed.

Turn 119 Stalin comes begging for meditation. I refuse. He doesn't like me anyway, and in a few turns I will have plenty of troops to repel an attack, if not take him over. Corinth finishes courthouse and starts on phalanx. HBR completed, start on Metal Casting for forges.

Turn 120 Stalin converts to Hinduism. I think Asoka has bult at least 6 missionaries now. Athens completes temple and starts on stables.

turn 121 Argos completes granary and starts on courthouse. Athens completes stables and starts on HA (Horse Archer)

Turn 122 Aristottlevile completes granary and starts on library. corinth completes phalanx and starts on stables.

Turn 123 HA completed in Athens, starts on another HA. Finish MC, start on Aesthetics.

Turn 124 Bismarck comes a begging again for Currency. I give in. I have a good tech lead, and Currency will not help him much. I also check the tech screen, and see that Asoka will trade Construction. He gives me Construction
plus 55 gold for Currency. Athens finishes HA and starts on forge. I switch to forges in Thebes, Argos, and Corinth. My workers have been developing the junglelands. When they first started work, only one would enter a jungle tile and build a road on it. A few extra roads were also built so my workers could move between resources. Then I began moving several workers at a time onto each resource tile to improve it quickly. Since I have plenty of workers, and the cities were pretty small, the workers then each built a road on a jungle tile, hills first, until a tile would be needed to be worked soon. Then they would again mass improve a tile. Workers with a lot of jungle to clear will get it all done quicker if only 1 worker moves onto an unroaded jungle tile:

Spoiler :

Turn 125 Aristottleville completes Library and starts on forge. The city just grew to size 5, and can now run 2 scientists. I hire the scientists, and also switch from the ivory tile to the elephant. This actually trades 1 food
for 2 hammers, not one, because it gives me 4 hammers to use the Organized Religion bonus. screenshot:

Spoiler :

The barb city is also captured, and the city of Knossos is founded 1E of its location to take advantage of more land tiles, especially the grassland tiles it would not have where it was. A worker from near Aristottleville heads north to help develop it. The worker that has been chain irrigating towards Sparta also will head to help. A chariot from Thebes goes to garrison Knossos. The phalanx that capture it now has 6 exp and will head a little east hoping to kill some barbs for exp. The Horse Archer you see in the screenshot will head to Thebes for mobile defense.

Spoiler :

With the founding of the new city, I need to lower the science slider to 30%. I should probably get my little cottage city going here soon. I go to talk to Bismarck, and he is willing to declare war on Stalin, but all the techs I have on him aren't enough. I go talk to Stalin, and He has 'enough on his hands right now'. So Stalin is preparing for war with someone, maybe
me. He has about 3 each swordsmen, axemen and spearmen. He also has a couple settlers sitting around.

Turn 126 Aesthetics completed, and I start on Machinery. This tech order really should have been reversed. There is no point in getting Literature yet. I won't be building any of its wonders until marble is hooked up, and in the short term, Thebes needs to finish its forge and Athens and Corinth need to build military. Sparta finishes its monastery and starts on a catapult.

Turn 127 Athens finishes forge and starts on War Elephant. It is now size 13 and working all its food and mine tiles plus an engineer and merchant. Athens has my only market, so is a good place to run a merchant. Thebes grows to size 10 and now works the grassland mine in addition to the 4 food tiles and the 5 scientists.

Turn 128 Stalin sends a small stack towards Corinth:

Spoiler :

I have the forces to defend, but in 10 turns I can have the forces to dominate. So I go to Stalin and demand 20 gold in tribute. This forces 10 turns of peace. To my surprise, he gives in. It is possible that stack was heading towards India, which would be strange because Stalin is now Hindu, but not strange because Asoka is way behind in power.

Turn 129 Stalin's stack moves into my territory. He appears to be going for Asoka. Athens finishes War Elephant and will continue building them. Another Great Scientist is born in Thebes and settled. This knocks a turn off
the forge build and increases science by 16 beakers.

Turn 130 Corinth completes forge and returns to stables.

Turn 131 I complete Machinery and start on Literature. Corinth completes stables and starts on maceman. Argos completes its forge and returns to courthouse.

Turn 132 Athens completes War Elephant and starts on maceman. Literature is complete. The next tech is a tough choice. I'm pretty sure Stalin has me in mind for his attack. His forces are just milling about my territory, between Corinth and Thebes. If he was going for Asoka, they would have kept going west. If he was going for Bismarck, he never would have entered my territory. I have occassionally seen the AI send pointless stacks just wandering around my territory, never moving on anyone though. I suppose it is possible they are just 'out on maneuvers'.

I ended the round here. It's a very interesting point in the game, with several decisions to be made on teching, building, and diplomacy. In the next post, I will discuss my thoughts leading into round 4 more. I will also be posting screenshots of most of my cities and discuss the plans for them.

 

[xanadux]

Overview of round 4 strategy:

As I said before, round 4 was a blance among military, infrastucture, and economy. The primary economic tech for a SE, CoL for Caste System was completed at the end of round 3. This alone gave me a strong tech rate from hiring 4 scientists in Thebes immediately. With my tech rate comfortable strong for the moment, the tech priorities would be primarily those that helped with production and military:

The first tech I researched in round 4 was Civil Service. Allowing me to switch to Bureaucracy, CS gave me an immediate boost of over 10 hammers and 5 commerce in the capital. Athens is large and well developed, so Bureaucracy gave me an early game production powerhouse. In the long run, CS allows chain irrigation of all those jungle grasslands in the south.

The next tech I chose was HBR. This only took 2 turns to research, and is a prerequisite for war elephants. When I have long borders with the AI, strong mounted units give a sense of security. I didn't build many Horse Archers, but the 2 or 3 I built would be an effective mobile defense if an unexpected attack came.

After HBR, I chose a builder/production tech, Metal Casting. I wanted forges. MC also is a prereq for Machinery, which would give me macemen, so this tech makes a lot of sense from both a production and military point of view.

After MC, I researched Aesthetics. I thought I would found the marble city sooner and want Aesthetics for the Parthenon. Machinery first would have allowed macemen, and actually not delayed the Parthenon. In the end it didn't really matter. Since I got Construction in trade from Asoka, I could build War Elephants, so not being able to build macemen for 2 more turns was not a big disadvantage.

After machinery, Literature. At this point, Thebes was about 4 turns from completing its forge. The next military tech I wanted was Engineering for the road bonus and Trebuchets. But engineering would take 7 turns to research, and I wanted Thebes to be able to start on the Great Library as soon as the forge was finished. So Literature it was.

 

[xanadux]

Now the promised city screenshots.

Athens:

Spoiler :

Athens is growing slowly at size 13. It still has healthy and happy cap room, and this is a good sized city at 450AD. Total hammers with bonus is 40 per turn, which is also quite strong for this time. I am running an engineer and merchant specialist. With the GPP from the pyramids, I am hoping to generate a great engineer. This GE will either build the Oxford University for Thebes or settle in Thebes for a production and science bonus. I believe that running a couple of specialists is better than working some unimproved forest tiles. A Great Engineer is either a super production boost from settling or an instant wonder. Before too long, I hope Athens will produce one.

Sparta:

Spoiler :

Sparta hasn't changed much the last few dozen turns. It was primarily built to work the gold and 2 scientists. It has just enough basic food for this purpose. Eventually, its grassland tiles will be chain irrigated, and it will be able to grow a little bit more. In addition, the incense will soon be improved, and gives an option for more commerce, although overall a crappy tile providing no food or hammers.

Corinth:

Spoiler :

Corinth is an excellent production city for the early mid game. It is producing 26 hammers per turn, and a few beakers from the engineer specialist. Even with all that production and running a specialist, Corinth is still running a 3 food surplus. Eventually, with guilds and chemistry and workshops, this will be a huge production city. In the short/medium run, this city also has the option of making a good economic contribution by running specialists. Workers will concentrate on getting some more grassland farms built here so that Corinth can continue to grow, and then make a small contribution to science.

Thebes:

Spoiler :

At the moment, Thebes is stagnant with 5 scientists, 2 irrigated FP, grassland cows and bananas, and a mined grassland hill. Most of my workers are developing Thebes right now. They are working on getting the remaining 2 grassland mines built, and 2 or 3 grassland squares irrigated. Thebes is producing most of my beakers right now. The workers are concentrating on Thebes now. The plan is to get the grassland mines built plus 2 or 3 more grassland farms. When Thebes starts building the Great Library, it will not only work the mines, but also work grassland farms. A big boost of both production and growth. As i have said before, eventually your specialist cities need to grow, and send the scientists to the field. An additional benefit to this soon to come shift of Thebes to growth and production is that Athens will be able to catch up in GPP and perhaps build that Great Engineer.

Aristottleville:

Spoiler :

Aristottleville is making a modest contribution to the scientific effort, running 2 scientists while it builds a forge. My workers have a lot to do. Aristottleville runs scientists to work its useful tiles without growing too much to allow the workers to get stuff done elsewhere.

Argos:

Spoiler :

Argos is a prototypical production city. In the short run it grows only to work more mines and produce more.