Civs Discussion

[Amogos]

We could just do different maps. One would have the EU, the other would not. One would have Iraq, Afghanistan, and Myanmar. The other would have African nations. etc.
We could do 2-3 maps like that.
I was just looking for a project to get involved in, I don't really mind, but I think that this is a good idea or this mod will never get done.

I think this is a brilliant idea , but wouldn't that take a lot of work? (There should be one that has all nations suggested for the people that have huge computer power [not me ] but that project should be for later)

 

[sheep21]

Perhaps it would be expedient to amalgamate some countries for simplicity sake?

Say
Malayasia, Singapore, Thailand & Philipines
Vietname, Laos & Cambodia
Australia & NZ
UK & Eire
Indonesia & Papua New Guinea
Nepal, Bangladesh, Bhutan & India
Oman, Yemen, UAE & Kuwait
Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon & Syria


for africa there is the failed state\barbs plan but i think these chaps should be included

South Africa, Egypt, they are the major players on the continent and the most stable aswell.

 

[ijnavy]

I don't think that that's a good idea since it's not how it is in the real world. Some countries will be civ, and some independents.
For more realism, every time that you conquer a city, you get a -1 relations with all civs (or should we skip this?).

 

[Gooblah]

Hi guys! Sorry I haven't been on in a while, my BTS broke and internet troubles arose. Currently, I don't have BTS so I can't work with the tech files...

Anyways, here's a map of the proposal from page 1. Any gray areas are countries not included in that proposal. I'll make maps of each proposal to make life easier. It's a tad big, and if you can't differentiate the colors....get a better card. The colors on there are just ones I chose, hopefully not the final ones.

 

[Gooblah]

Here's Ijnavy's proposal (page 2); India has been extended to cover Nepal, Bhutan, and Bangladesh. I wasn't sure what to do with Africa, so that's blank along with SE Asia and Afghanistan.

 

[sgrig]

Canadians and Aussies won't like this, but how about joining UK with Canada, Australia and NZ? This would reduce the number the civs, and would make UK more powerful. This also highlights the fact that UK has quite close relations with these former colonies. Moreover they have the same official head of state!

 

[Agent327]

Hi guys! Sorry I haven't been on in a while, my BTS broke and internet troubles arose. Currently, I don't have BTS so I can't work with the tech files...

Anyways, here's a map of the proposal from page 1. Any gray areas are countries not included in that proposal. I'll make maps of each proposal to make life easier. It's a tad big, and if you can't differentiate the colors....get a better card. The colors on there are just ones I chose, hopefully not the final ones.

On both maps Russia seems to have reoccupied Belorus. Also, there's no "Neutral Bloc", but Non-aligned Nations fits perfectly (and makes certain annexations of jnavy's unnecessary). On another note: NATO and EU overlap, which would need to be expressed in alliances (which basically would make them equal) or another way.

 

[Amogos]

Canadians and Aussies won't like this, but how about joining UK with Canada, Australia and NZ? This would reduce the number the civs, and would make UK more powerful. This also highlights the fact that UK has quite close relations with these former colonies. Moreover they have the same official head of state!

Canada and UK shouldn't be joined. They are quite different, especially in politics. (Everyone likes Canada)

 

[sgrig]

Canada and UK shouldn't be joined. They are quite different, especially in politics. (Everyone likes Canada)

Yeah that's the difficulty with having fewer Civ spots than there are countries. That's why you also can't really lump all of EU together, because they are all also very different.

I actually miss the days of Civ2 when there were only 7 civ spots, so you didn't have a choice and had to lump lots of countries together. Now with up to 40 civs in a game, some countries have the honour of being represented as independent ones, while others have to be joined with someone else.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Since when was Mexico a failed state?

 

[Alexander-86]

Hello pople..
I would like to help about Balkan states (since I am from that region)
I realy think that the best (and the real) thig would be to devide balkan in three larger sectors
1. is Srbian sector (with Macedonia and east Bosnia & Hercegovina and Montenegro) whitch would be in good relations (or in influence) by Rusia

2. is Croatian sector (with Albania, west Bosnia & Hercegovina) Whitch would be in good relations (or in influence) by NATO ( or USA)

3. and EU sector (Greece, Bulgaria, Slovenia , Romania)

It would be interesting to play whith no 1 or no 2 since the history of Balkans in recent years, and strugle of influence between Russia and USA it could be used for low levil fights ets..
What do you people think? I hope You would like it!
And keep up the good work!, When will be the relise of this mode?

 

[sheep21]

Here's Ijnavy's proposal (page 2); India has been extended to cover Nepal, Bhutan, and Bangladesh. I wasn't sure what to do with Africa, so that's blank along with SE Asia and Afghanistan.

after a long old think I have come to the conclusion that this would be the best working solution out of a bad dilema. The only way I can see the UK surivivng on its own is through having massively productive cities with high gold, science and hammers output.

 

[Krug]

Well, I've looked at the page for this mod and decided to jump on the Bandwagon for it. First off some things about this map, I like it but, I have some suggestions.


-Puntland, should be AU, and Somaliland should be Neutral, or Minor, as they have currently declared independance. The rest of Somalia should be failed. Or be apart of some Jihad Nation (See Bottom of Post)

-Sri Lanka should be split in half, for obvious reasons (Tamil Tigers)

-Kivu, should be Failed, or something.

-The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Region_of_Muslim_Mindanao should be seprate, or part of the Jihadist Nation, due to a current war with the Phillipine Government.

-Morocco should be Failed or Jihadist.

-Balochistan and Kurdistan should be seprate.

-Pattani and Sad'ah should be Seprate or Jihadist.

-Parts of Mexico should be failed, not all of it. The rest needs to be its own country.

So, overall, I'm Proposing, these new countries:

Jihadist
Morrocco (Capital)
Pattani
Sad'ah
ICU area of Somalia
Mindanao

Areas in Revolt
Kurdistan (Capital)
Balochistan
Somaliland
Kivu
Tamil

 

[sheep21]

like your ideas but they would use up valuable leaderslots for what are extremely minor states on the world map.

 

[Krug]

Eh, maybe not a seprate Nation for each, but instead use the "Failed States" civ to represent them, as they are going on right now. Plus places like Kurdistan are quite large and definetly ned representation.

Don't forget my Idea on Sri Lanka.

 

[Bahmo]

Why do you all hate Morocco and Tibet?

We need to ammend that map. I was going to suggest putting the US in control of Kabul and Baghdad, with Barbarians surrounding them. Here again, if we can't fit in some other cities to put Barbarians in control of, we could implement the components that gives the Barbarians a "Mongol Yurt" sort of unit that spawns an army if not stopped, or a "goblin lair" terrain feature that also spawns units until pillaged. Since the USA wants to pull out of Iraq, though, maybe if it hasn't been completely done once the mod's released, give the US some hypothetical Derrivative Civilization (For those who don't know, a Derrivative Civilization is one programmed to form when another grants colonies their independence), so it can happen during the course of the mod.

I remain skeptical of lumping Tibet with the Barbarians. They want independence, but they aren't resorting to terrorism to get it. Even if Tibet did start a war of independence, it would be more interesting if the rest of the world had the option of treating them as a nation rather than troublemakers, starting a war with China in the process. Let's face it; war is fun. If anything, make Tibet a vassal of China, and we can reduce the default loyalty of vassals if we want there to be a chance of rebellion. (We could do that with Iraq, too.)

Meanwhile, are we still putting Japan together with Taiwan, the Phillipines, other pacific island states, and maybe some mainland states like South Korea and Vietnam? I think that should be done, as such Asian countries tend to follow a unified economic policy.

 

[Krug]

Why do you all hate Morocco and Tibet?

We need to ammend that map. I was going to suggest putting the US in control of Kabul and Baghdad, with Barbarians surrounding them. Here again, if we can't fit in some other cities to put Barbarians in control of, we could implement the components that gives the Barbarians a "Mongol Yurt" sort of unit that spawns an army if not stopped, or a "goblin lair" terrain feature that also spawns units until pillaged. Since the USA wants to pull out of Iraq, though, maybe if it hasn't been completely done once the mod's released, give the US some hypothetical Derrivative Civilization (For those who don't know, a Derrivative Civilization is one programmed to form when another grants colonies their independence), so it can happen during the course of the mod.

I remain skeptical of lumping Tibet with the Barbarians. They want independence, but they aren't resorting to terrorism to get it. Even if Tibet did start a war of independence, it would be more interesting if the rest of the world had the option of treating them as a nation rather than troublemakers, starting a war with China in the process. Let's face it; war is fun. If anything, make Tibet a vassal of China, and we can reduce the default loyalty of vassals if we want there to be a chance of rebellion. (We could do that with Iraq, too.)

Meanwhile, are we still putting Japan together with Taiwan, the Phillipines, other pacific island states, and maybe some mainland states like South Korea and Vietnam? I think that should be done, as such Asian countries tend to follow a unified economic policy.

I like your first two Ideas, making Iraq a dirivitive Nation is very good.

However, I don't think Japan should be Lumped in with Taiwan, as I think the Japanese would not go to War with China if Taiwan was Invaded, yet I don't think Taiwan should be on its own either, then it becomes too easy a conquest for the PRC Player, if anything it should be Barbarian and Tibet be a Nation in its place, they are a very Large Autonamous State. Sorry, but I like the "Independent Nations" civ, so I don't want that to be lumped into Japan either, finally, the Phillipines I want seperate for the Insurgency going on there. Japan should just be well, Japan.

The problem with Morrocco is, its a battle ground waiting to happen, there are Terrorists, and, I think, Three countries wanting a piece of that pie, and it should be Barbarian to show the fact that, in the end, who ever has the most Strength (The AU or IAS in this case) wins the prize.

 

[DVS]

Taiwan is going to be its own civ, which will start as an American vassal. I also like your idea Bahmo about Iraq being a derivative nation, and of Tibet as its own civ and a vassal of China.

Basically we have our civ list for version 1.0. It's essentially the one currently posted in the first post of this thread I believe. After we get 1.0 up and running we can modify and improve things.

 

[Bahmo]

The USA has severed diplomatic ties with Taiwan, though not trade, so making them an American vassal makes no sense, even they began as one. However, you can still start the game with them having a defense contract. Meanwhile, on a normal-sized map, Taipei is probably the only city we'll be able to fit, so maybe beef it up really hard. If you can't think of anything else to do with Taiwan, fine, but I'd advise against getting in the habit of making every tiny nation its own Civ.

What's to be done with the rest of Continental Asia? Are Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia lumped with China, or just with each other, or with some Island nations, or something else entirely?

 

[whitelaughter]

Suicide Bombing

-1 Population, +5 ,

In a modern era, 1 Population is about, what, a million people? When was the last time a suicide bombing managed that?

Palestine, in Civ terms, is just a case of cultural(yeah, the name doesn't fit) expansion across the border into Israel by the Arab bloc. It'll blip out of existence with the next cultural jump in Jerusalem.

It's probably a good idea to split Islam (into Sunni and Shiite).

And to bud Roman Catholicism off from the rest of Christianity. Partly because of historical clashes with Protestants, Orthodox, (and frankly everyone else - even the Thomasites).
Also Catholic and Protestant worlds are different places,with very different life spans etc. And finally having a third of the population of the planet in one religion is going to give a massive benefit to those nations; splitting into two groups allows for more variety.
Besides, we're down two religions - China has nearly stamped out Confusicianism and Taoism.
Judaism is incredibly rare, but should be present; America and Australia should be pro-Israel as part of the effort to squeeze more culture/happiness out of Free Religion.

Should traditionally neutral states ie Switzerland be considered Pacifist rather than Free Religion?