Clash of Warmongers - BTS - Take 2

[ABigCivFan]

Game Report Index:

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*1. 4000BC-975BC (3 Cities settled; Built the Great Wall; Preparing Rexing Churchill) Updated 1/8/2008

*2. 950BC-125BC (English War, Pyramid, Prepare for Aztec War) Updated 1/8/2008

*3. 1AD-1110AD (Aztec skirmish; Empire Building; Early priorities; Size 20 City at 1110AD.) Updated 1/9/2008

*4. 1120AD-1570AD (20 Million Pop @1160AD; Empire building under great protection; Back-to-Back Golden Age; Rush to Biology; SOL; A very flexible and Powerful Economy. Witness the truely Over-Powered Ankor Wat!!) Updated 1/10/2008

*5. 1600AD-1705AD (50 Million population at 1605AD; Monty the Vassle Ally; The ultimate "Opportune Killing"; End of Nappy; Assembly Line.) Updated 1/10/2008

*6. 1710AD-1808AD (Back stabbing GK, Spy power; Holy Mountain; Globe domination. ) Updated 1/11/2008

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I will try to set up another open game under this concept:

Stuff 8 warmongers on a standard Pangaea map and slug it out. Since I just got BTS, I do not have much experience with the new leaders, so who do you think are the most dangerous leaders for this game? All suggestions are welcome. Please list 6 of them.

This is the link to our first Clash of the Warmonger (Warlord version):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=226970

Participating Warmongers:
Boudica
Monty
Shaka
GK
Napolean
Ragnar
Churchill

Human:
Toku of Japan


Although this sounds like warmonger paradise, but you will need to balance economy, diplomacy, research, war strategy as well as making many tough choices and exercise good judgements to stay alive since the AIs are all so close and so unpredictable under these settings.


Settings:

BTS3.13/Immortal/Pangaea/Standard Size/Normal speed/Aggressive AI

Here is the 4000BC pic and the save. Let's get the war started.

 

[obsolete]

If I ever get my other two writeups out of the way, & some time, I plan on trying some warmongering with Japan as I have a special plan I want to try out with him. Though most people tend to think he has terrible traits.

 

[madscientist]

In my opinion agressive AI put's the AI out of control and does not attack better. I would like to see the game played at normal settings where they tech better.

As far as AIs, here are some I think are challenging

Boudica
Khmer dude
Monty
Napolean
Tokugawa
Shaka
Ragnar

To me me Shaka and Ragnar are the must haves as they can tech well also and keep you on your toes.

 

[Dirk1302]

If you really want to make it challenging choose Tokugawa for the human player, i've played this leader once in the lonely heart challenges, he's a total pain but once you get to gunpowder/rifling you can get out some really fantastic units, also Obsolete can shine in another department besides wonderbuilding.

I'm also for including Darius, i remember from your first challenge on warlords that the game was really easy when i reached the renaissance unscathed, because research comes to a screeching halt with these sort of AIs. This probably won't happen to Darius who has beakers instead of blood running through his veines, especially if you put him on another continent we'll have a real challenge before us.

As madscientists suggests it might not be a good idea to check aggressive AIs, i don't know why it is precisely but i've read before on these forums that this setting tends to cripple the AI's. With these leaders we'll be attacked and probably backstabbed anyway.

 

[Gliese 581]

Caesar should probably be included?

Edit: Btw I definitely don't agree that agg ai on a pangaea map is easier than default settings, on the contrary it will make the game more difficult.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Toku could be interesting, we might need to rely more on early aggression and use war bounty to boost research. Although I favor a more mobile Cav/Treb/Cannon combo to gunpower+cannon based SODs, Agg+Pro gunpower units just sound so awesome.

so far the top AIs are:

Boudica
Darius
Ragnar
Monty
Shaka
Alex

There are 2 financial AIs to give us more challenge, but you bet if Darius is our neighbour, I am going after him @ 1000BC.

 

[Jet]

I'd replace Monty with a Creative or Imperialistic Leader, maybe Kublai or Genghis. Or you could play Mongolia yourself. With Genghis, the Great Wall multiplies with Imperialistic for quadruple GG production.

 

[CivCorpse]

If you are going all out war, then AggAi is the way to go. You have to build a pile of units yourself so your own tech rate suffers

 

[Dirk1302]

Toku could be interesting, we might need to rely more on early aggression and use war bounty to boost research. Although I favor a more mobile Cav/Treb/Cannon combo to gunpower+cannon based SODs, Agg+Pro gunpower units just sound so awesome.

so far the top AIs are:

Boudica
Darius
Ragnar
Monty
Shaka
Alex

There are 2 financial AIs to give us more challenge, but you bet if Darius is our neighbour, I am going after him @ 1000BC.

Course you do. That's why i suggested an island or continent for Darius so you and the other blood beasts can't touch him before astro.

Apart from Darius this list is pretty aggressive, personally i think Ghengis should be here, as there's also (relatively peaceful) Kublai he doesn't feature as often, for me more than anyone else on the list he's been the biggest most annoying sob that i ever came across in this game, his greed for blood simply knows no boundaries, even more than Shaka this idiot needs to be eliminated or pet dogged immediately(btw in BigCivFan's first warmonger game he started next to us and in fear i attacked him as soon as i had 8 axes, only way to deal with this madman).
Strangely enough maybe i would take Boudica off the list, she's certainly not a woman with peace in her heart but afaik she waits till the Ad's before she attacks, she has terrific traits to be dangerous but in my games sofar she's never been a threat to me or anyone else near her.

I suggest we take Toku for human player, as an AI in a challenging game i don't fancy him, normally he just doesn't do anything and is eliminated by a succesful ai or the human player around 1500 ad.

 

[tycoonist]

yes! you're back! i loved the first game. as for the leaders, i would suggest:

boudica
julius
shaka
ragnar
tokugawa
monty
Alex/napoleon

 

[obsolete]

If you are going all out war, then AggAi is the way to go. You have to build a pile of units yourself so your own tech rate suffers

When you're trading one of your units for ten of theirs, you don't have to build that many.

 

[dutchfire]

What about Hammurabi as an enemy? Aggressive and Organized, with a beefed up archer. He'll be a tough nut to crack.

 

[ConanKND]

Great to see you back, and at the right time for me too! I'm learning to play aggressive.

I vote for Tokugawa as the human player. If you can hold on till the medieval-industrial age, it'll be an enemy bloodfest. Beefed up BTS Samurai --> Draft Rifles with CG, Drill I and Combat I.

For enemies, I think Napoleon, Boudica and Shaka are a must. Napoleon actually knows how to fight, like Shaka. Hammurabi will be good, and if there's Darius, can someone open the game file and tuck him away in the furthest corner?

What about a protective civ just to annoy you and interest all the readers? Churchill or Charlemagne might be a bit on the masochistic side, but that's fine for me. Hope to see the game fired up soon.

 

[obsolete]

I've been thinking ABCF, we've already seen this on Immortal. Why not step it up to Deity? If you get beat halfway through, then you just get beat. No one is going to laugh. You can always just start another crack and be more determined next time.

 

[Dirk1302]

Why not indeed? Just skip any thoughts on including Darius on another continent in that case as it'll be very hard anyway.

 

[CivSetä]

1. Boudica & 2. Monty - no explanations needed!
3. Shaka - tough guy, techs ok until modern times
4. Ragnar - fin gives him some edge
5. Napoleon - really the pain in the ass
6. Ghengis - really annoying neighbour in the early game

No Romans ro Persians in this game, IMHO they are too peaceful.
Toku techs too slowly so he's no threat.
Alex is just boring and at least in my games usually slows down too early.

And it must be with aggressive AI on, just to see some huge stacks in the late game!

 

[obsolete]

How can you ay Shaka techs ok until modern times? I haven't seem him ever even GET into the modern times, period.

I vote, add in ALL the French leaders. They are aggresive bastards anyway. But maybe between the three of them, one of them might just be able to do something.

 

[ABigCivFan]

What about a protective civ just to annoy you and interest all the readers? Churchill or Charlemagne might be a bit on the masochistic side, but that's fine for me. Hope to see the game fired up soon.

This is an excellent idea. Most of the other guys have early UUs, Churchill is Cha/Pro IIRC. He is capable of producing super redcoats right around the time we are fully engaged in some serious medival fights, and should pose some challenge for our mounted units. War made him famous, he centainly fits our bill.

I don't mind Deity, but under these tight settings, it might get ridiculous for human players if we do not start at a very good spot and with no copper. But what the heck, we can always climb down a notch if we fail. Here are the updated settings based on the initial inputs:

Settings:

BTS3.13/Deity/Pangaea/Standard size/Normal speed/Aggressive AIs

AIs:
Boudica (She took Alex and Stalin Vassel in my last game)
Monty (The ultimate badguy in CIV4)
Gengis (The most sucessful warmonger in history)
Napolean (Popular suggested leader) or Darius (New with awesome traits)
Shaka (One of the most feared warlord in Civ4)
Churchill (Excellent warmonger traits/UU and tough defender)

Human:
Toku

Napolean was a good trading partner and was easily manipulated in our first game, so I am leaning more toward Darius, Deity will certainly make him the top priority for a early rush though.

I am on a business trip this whole week, I would suggest one of you starting a game under these settings(under this thread or a seperate thread); make a post after every 20 turns or before any major decision for discussion. I will set up my game next Sunday and I plan on a more detailed game report/discussion this time.

 

[tycoonist]

No Romans ro Persians in this game, IMHO they are too peaceful.

I wish i played against your romans; julius is the one of the worst back stabbers in the business.

 

[tycoonist]

i just re-re-read the first game; great stuff btw.

at the end you had a very impressive kill:lost ratio. you attributed this to charismatic and spiritual for war civic and more XP. seeing as how you will be on deity, maybe you fancy napoleon for the human player. i know he is a popular feature on the list but he has traits you would find very useful i think: charismatic for more promotions and organized for smaller costs for those expensive war civics like vassalage and police state. you might need every unit you can keep against deity production bonuses.