Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
The romans are not peaceful, Augustus are. Caesar is highly aggressive and even with only imperialistic as a directly war-enhancing trait, the threat of praetorians always makes him dangerous early on.
Clash of Warmongers - BTS - Take 2
- Thread starter ABigCivFan
- Start date
Hmm.. no one agrees with me? Maybe I have been lucky, because even Julius haven't ever backstabbed me...
Am I playing the same game?
IMHO Shaka is really annoying when he controls other continent, which seems to be the case everytime he does not start on mine. Usually he has 2-3 vassals before I can even plan for attacking him. Well it's different in case of pangea, though.
IIRC Shaka was doing great in one ALC some time ago also.
Agg Ai doesnt affect the warmongerers, as much as you may think, I recently discovered an isolated montezuma can be a bad thing immortal/huge/marathon, he must have jaguar rushed england giving him a huge land area which he used very effectively to create hordes upon hordes upon hordes of knights and even some exceptionally elite calvalry, although he could not afford to upgrade them all. I laughed when his sailboats neared my continent, and laughed even harder when his sailboats sunk my destroyers through sheer numbers 1700 AD and my tanks fell to the might of his horses, he conquered my entire continent quickly and with eases tearing through the infantry single garrisons of the crappy cities. Montezuma managed to take over all of what was once holy rome in a mere heartbeat. Unfortuneately for the mad scientist, I am playing as etheopia and had already conquered 4 other civs. I sank his ships and left him trapped on holy rome while i ravaged his hordes with a mere 60 tanks and bomber support. All in all montezuma managed to stockpile over 700 units, and lose them all in less than 50 years. The game has continued to grow bloodier as time passes. Resulting in the emergence of 3 superpowers surrounded by vassals and a few crappy free states of no consequence. 1805 And I have just razed one of a 5 vassal hyperpowered Huyana Capac's prelegendary cities only to find myself on both ends of thermonuclear annihilation. Currently my score is over 4k, but I have a feeling this game will not end well for anyone.
ABigCivFan
Emperor
You freed up 700GPT for Monty by killing his obsolete units, it probably helped him teching a lot better in the modern era.
Yes, I have seen all these guys (Monty, Shaka, Alex, Boudica, Ghangis) on this list capable of taking over multiple "peaceful" AIs and building an empire when they are left alone. Especially the guys with Aggressive trait.
I think in our up coming game, we will really need to use our protective/Agg trait and lure the AIs in for some defensive killings as well as keeping them fighting among each other to neutralize their power. It should be fun.
obsolete
Deity
I am a big fan of fighting DEFENSIVELY, then going on offense once you slaughter all the waves of units. But there are some players who strictly believe it's the worst way to play.
I think those who are big advocates of the CR only, but never CG promotions are those who haven't had to take on much challenges in the tuff games.
I think those who are big advocates of the CR only, but never CG promotions are those who haven't had to take on much challenges in the tuff games.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Good to see you back, ABigCivFan 
Your warlords games were at least very instructive in terms of how to maximize killing ratios.
I think that you done a good choice regarding the leader...it is true that teching with Toku is a real problem , but if you get to rifles in a decent timing ,only pro redcoats can make you some shadow ( and lets not talk of the drafted units ). The big problem will be to keep a good teching until then... but I bet that you'll use the "land is power" aphorism
I think that you should do what you did in the brennus game: GW and force battles in your territory ( a good fort network + pro archer/longbows garrison can really be useful as a effective SoD delayer/stopper until your main response force comes for the rescue ) ,milk GG, settle GG or mil academy ( when possible ) , rinse and repeat. With Agg/Pro ,that strat is even more viable than with Brennus
@ obsolete
I certainly agree with you. Having played some really tight SG in OCC ( were you're by definiton military overwhelmed until you start to slash and burn ), I started to give more valour to the CG promo line. As you implied, when you need to fight bigger armies, CR looks extremely less useful than some CG III bows in a forested hill fort that are meatgrinding the AI SoD while you 're preparing the techological military shock for the future.
Your warlords games were at least very instructive in terms of how to maximize killing ratios.I think that you done a good choice regarding the leader...it is true that teching with Toku is a real problem , but if you get to rifles in a decent timing ,only pro redcoats can make you some shadow ( and lets not talk of the drafted units ). The big problem will be to keep a good teching until then... but I bet that you'll use the "land is power" aphorism
I think that you should do what you did in the brennus game: GW and force battles in your territory ( a good fort network + pro archer/longbows garrison can really be useful as a effective SoD delayer/stopper until your main response force comes for the rescue ) ,milk GG, settle GG or mil academy ( when possible ) , rinse and repeat. With Agg/Pro ,that strat is even more viable than with Brennus
@ obsolete
I certainly agree with you. Having played some really tight SG in OCC ( were you're by definiton military overwhelmed until you start to slash and burn ), I started to give more valour to the CG promo line. As you implied, when you need to fight bigger armies, CR looks extremely less useful than some CG III bows in a forested hill fort that are meatgrinding the AI SoD while you 're preparing the techological military shock for the future.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
I like the idea of adding churchhill as he can take care of himself quite nicely.
I do not like Darius, he is a great techer but definitely too passive, he get dogpiled by everyone else be fore he's a factor.
I would prefer to see Ragnar as you have no financial leader in that bunch. I sya add him in as a 7th leader to make the game a little more cozy. If no 7th I would prefer to see the Great Khan bumped.
Once again I suggest NOT having aggressive leaders. All these guys on a tight Pangea map will be all over each other. All your doing is starting alot of misguided missles which tend to go astray.
One final note is that the Khmer guy is pretty damned dangerous,don't get fooled by his lack of military techs.
Good luck, I am eager to see this played out.
I do not like Darius, he is a great techer but definitely too passive, he get dogpiled by everyone else be fore he's a factor.
I would prefer to see Ragnar as you have no financial leader in that bunch. I sya add him in as a 7th leader to make the game a little more cozy. If no 7th I would prefer to see the Great Khan bumped.
Once again I suggest NOT having aggressive leaders. All these guys on a tight Pangea map will be all over each other. All your doing is starting alot of misguided missles which tend to go astray.
One final note is that the Khmer guy is pretty damned dangerous,don't get fooled by his lack of military techs.
Good luck, I am eager to see this played out.
ABigCivFan
Emperor
Good to see you back, ABigCivFan
I think that you should do what you did in the brennus game: GW and force battles in your territory ( a good fort network + pro archer/longbows garrison can really be useful as a effective SoD delayer/stopper until your main response force comes for the rescue ) ,milk GG, settle GG or mil academy ( when possible ) , rinse and repeat. With Agg/Pro ,that strat is even more viable than with Brennus
Hi rolo, yeah it is good to be back! I have been very busy at work but now after all the good performance in 2007 and all the bonus in, i finally have some time so I bought BTS
.At Deity GW would be tough to get unless we have stone early. Firaxis probably saw our first game and decided that 8 Military Academies are over-powered right after Education so they pushed it back to Military Science
@Madscientist,
ok Mad, lets honor Ragnar a spot in our game. Now there are 8 warmongers on a standard map, truly a mayham.
There seems to be a split decision for Aggressive AI option, lets just have it this time, cause these guys are gonna go at each other no matter what option. This option will probably just mean that all AIs having larger armies.
Settings:
BTS3.13/Deity/Pangaea/Standard size/Normal speed/Aggressive AIs
AIs:
Boudica (She took Alex and Stalin Vassel in my last game)
Monty (The ultimate badguy in CIV4)
Gengis (The most sucessful warmonger in history)
Napolean (Popular suggested leader)
Shaka (One of the most feared warlord in Civ4)
Churchill (Excellent warmonger traits/UU and tough defender)
Ragnar (The only Financial Warmonger)
Human:
Toku
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Hi rolo, yeah it is good to be back! I have been very busy at work but now after all the good performance in 2007 and all the bonus in, i finally have some time so I bought BTS
At Deity GW would be tough to get unless we have stone early. Firaxis probably saw our first game and decided that 8 Military Academies are over-powered right after Education so they pushed it back to Military Science
@Madscientist,
ok Mad, lets honor Ragnar a spot in our game. Now there are 8 warmongers on a standard map, truly a mayham.
There seems to be a split decision for Aggressive AI option, lets just have it this time, cause these guys are gonna go at each other no matter what option. This option will probably just mean that all AIs having larger armies.
Glad the Viking sum has a place among the war dogs!!
With his batch on agressive AI I would be surpirsed to see some launched a warrior based attack!!!
Looking foreard to it!!!!
ABigCivFan
Emperor
Ok, I just posted the 4000BC screen shot and save file in the OP. Since I am still new to BTS, I am more comfortable playing at immortal.
Here is the 4000BC screen and save.
[/URL][/IMG]
Looking the the pic, I am thinking settle in place, move the worrior North to scout.
tech: Agri-Mining-Bronze
Build: worker
Here is the 4000BC screen and save.
Looking the the pic, I am thinking settle in place, move the worrior North to scout.
tech: Agri-Mining-Bronze
Build: worker
ConanKND
Warlord
I'm also playing a Toku game right now. Anyway, here are some of the ideas that popped into my head.
1. You're in the southern hemisphere, the tundra south of would-be Kyoto shows that.
2. That looks like a subpar start, but I'm crossing my fingers for strategic resources, horses, copper, and especially iron. (Hope the map generator's kind enough not to put coal or aluminium, or oil in your starting point.)
3. Setlling 1 SE may be good for riverside bonus, but this one I'm not so sure. In BTS, apart from the river health bonus and trade route with rivers, you get levees, which boost late game production, but that may be too late to matter.
4. Last, definitely move the warrior first, and good luck!
1. You're in the southern hemisphere, the tundra south of would-be Kyoto shows that.
2. That looks like a subpar start, but I'm crossing my fingers for strategic resources, horses, copper, and especially iron. (Hope the map generator's kind enough not to put coal or aluminium, or oil in your starting point.)
3. Setlling 1 SE may be good for riverside bonus, but this one I'm not so sure. In BTS, apart from the river health bonus and trade route with rivers, you get levees, which boost late game production, but that may be too late to matter.
4. Last, definitely move the warrior first, and good luck!
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
And lots of forests mean easily chopped GW!
I can possibly see Arg/Mining/BW and, if there's Copper around, Masonry and Settler / GW. Otherwise Hunting, Archery, Pottery, IW are needed and so I think there would be too many other demands on production and research. For commerce, it looks like just the Oasis and two forested river tiles.
I can possibly see Arg/Mining/BW and, if there's Copper around, Masonry and Settler / GW. Otherwise Hunting, Archery, Pottery, IW are needed and so I think there would be too many other demands on production and research. For commerce, it looks like just the Oasis and two forested river tiles.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Settling in place looks fine to me, however....
There looks to be a river SE which if you settle next to will get you a chance to have eventual levees in teh capital. THe downside is that looks like some tundra to the SW so you may be moving onto poor territory. Too bad the warrior is not Est of the settler.
There looks to be a river SE which if you settle next to will get you a chance to have eventual levees in teh capital. THe downside is that looks like some tundra to the SW so you may be moving onto poor territory. Too bad the warrior is not Est of the settler.
obsolete
Deity
The game is supposed to put your settler in the optimum position. So by moving it over, you may in fact cause more damage later on.
Usually I settle FIRST, then move Warrior after the border pops and I can judge better where to move next.
Usually I settle FIRST, then move Warrior after the border pops and I can judge better where to move next.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Well, you have a all forest start.... that means that almost surely that plains tile has a hidden resource. But even forgetting that, the abundance of wood means that you can rely on chops for your first builds ( wonders or units ). I would settle in place and beeline BW. But I'm only a Monarch player ( well ,already won in emperor sometimes, but not comfortable enough there ) ,so take my advice with a big dose of scepticism
ABigCivFan
Emperor
4000BC-1000BC
I settled in place, 1 gold hill in BFC. Our early research will be a breeze. This is a low food capital, but with the amount of trees, hills, it will be a production power house and worker/settler factory. Our early priorities will be:
1. Couple of worriors explore, fog bust and find good city locations, Aggressive worriers are great for this.
2. Get 2 workers ASAP and start chopping.
3. Get wheat, gold and some mines on line ASAP.
Tech: Agri-Mining-BW-AH(to reveal horse)-Myst(monuments in new cities)-Potery(Granaries in new cities)
Build: worker-worrior(size 2)-barracks(size 3 to work wheat,oasis and gold mine)-worker-worriors to fight barbs-settler
Here is a explored map as of 2400BC. The map is very generous. copper in Capital, stone+Corn+horse nearby. I always try to get BW and AH before building the first settler, one of these strategic res will ensure a very safe early empire.
Note 1 settler is enroute to settle stone+Corn+horse city, given the amount of land improvement, I need more workers, and 2 worker for each new city will allow optimum growth. So chopping new worker before a Axeman and another settler.
2nd settler will claim corn+cow+copper+2spices to the NE of capital.
Churchill got some nice land to the East, will very likely Rex him.
3 City network @1720BC, still need more workers for new cities. Chop/whip monuments/Granaries in new cities. Mine in Capital was just pillaged by barbs.
1000BC. Troop city, potential HE city, plenty of food, hill, and workshop plains. This city will be a monster Barracks for our empire. I am building some cheap chariots for support, scout, then mass CRI+combatI Axe. Churchill is protective, so i need more Axe and need to scout him well before attack.
975BC: signed Open Border with Churchill, Scouting his defense, a couple of pro archers in a 50% cultural defense York. Hastings only has 20% cul defense. 6 CR Axe for Hastings is enough. To capture York, I will need all 3 cities pomping non-stop Axeman. Note I build GW in capital, researching Math and hope to chop Pyramid later. But all effort will be on war now.
I settled in place, 1 gold hill in BFC. Our early research will be a breeze. This is a low food capital, but with the amount of trees, hills, it will be a production power house and worker/settler factory. Our early priorities will be:
1. Couple of worriors explore, fog bust and find good city locations, Aggressive worriers are great for this.
2. Get 2 workers ASAP and start chopping.
3. Get wheat, gold and some mines on line ASAP.
Tech: Agri-Mining-BW-AH(to reveal horse)-Myst(monuments in new cities)-Potery(Granaries in new cities)
Build: worker-worrior(size 2)-barracks(size 3 to work wheat,oasis and gold mine)-worker-worriors to fight barbs-settler
Here is a explored map as of 2400BC. The map is very generous. copper in Capital, stone+Corn+horse nearby. I always try to get BW and AH before building the first settler, one of these strategic res will ensure a very safe early empire.
Note 1 settler is enroute to settle stone+Corn+horse city, given the amount of land improvement, I need more workers, and 2 worker for each new city will allow optimum growth. So chopping new worker before a Axeman and another settler.
2nd settler will claim corn+cow+copper+2spices to the NE of capital.
Churchill got some nice land to the East, will very likely Rex him.
3 City network @1720BC, still need more workers for new cities. Chop/whip monuments/Granaries in new cities. Mine in Capital was just pillaged by barbs.
1000BC. Troop city, potential HE city, plenty of food, hill, and workshop plains. This city will be a monster Barracks for our empire. I am building some cheap chariots for support, scout, then mass CRI+combatI Axe. Churchill is protective, so i need more Axe and need to scout him well before attack.
975BC: signed Open Border with Churchill, Scouting his defense, a couple of pro archers in a 50% cultural defense York. Hastings only has 20% cul defense. 6 CR Axe for Hastings is enough. To capture York, I will need all 3 cities pomping non-stop Axeman. Note I build GW in capital, researching Math and hope to chop Pyramid later. But all effort will be on war now.
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