Class action lawsuit

[Sadan01]

if more or less all the game companies were sued class action, then it may cause a death to PC gaming, but that death would only be temporary. Soon, new companies or reformed companies will arise that will actually care about customers as opposed to just about profits.

Are you an expert on the game industry are you?
You would find that if your idea was to actually be reality, then the cost of games would be double of what they are now and you would only get a few releases a year because it would take too damn long to release something without any bugs - which is almost impossible.

In fact, companies would turn away from the PC gaming platform completely as it would be just not viable and profitable.

 

[Fredric Drum]

Be careful what you ask for. If you could convince an unscrupulous lawyer to take this case (you did agree that you wouldn't sue) and won the ramifications are not what you think they would be. Sure you might even get $100 out of it (minus the 40% take for the lawyers). Then there would never be another Civ game or pathches to this one. Ever. Firaxis would be out of business and the title wouldn't be touched by another developer (cursed). The already dying TBS genre would breathe its last gasp as the last developer who is interested in it goes under. In addition, all PC software (not just games) from then on would go way up in price and take a lot longer to come to market (to afford better lawyers and more testing). I would also think that all game developers would bail out of the PC market and go to consoles because at least there you know that the purchaser doesn't have a really screwy system configuration that you assumed nobody in their right mind would still have.

You might have a point, but what if such a lawsuit lead to fewer games (as you agree), but of higher quality? I wouldn't mind if they skipped all the mediocre titles and really polished off the good ones instead, taking their time and charging more... or maybe they wouldn't have to if all the devs worked on fewer games and sold more copies of each

Well, one can dream... just wondering how you know that your theory is right? Do you have a crystal ball?

By the way, I've never said 'sue Firaxis', I just think it's an intriguing idea do 'something' to give the publishing houses a kick in the behind. Allegedly (I don't know if it's true), T2 Games rushed Civ4 to make their annual sales report or whatever look better, and the customers get an unfinished product. THAT's some nerve, in my opinion.

 

[Mujadaddy]

Allegedly (I don't know if it's true), T2 Games rushed Civ4 to make their annual sales report or whatever look better, and the customers get an unfinished product. THAT's some nerve, in my opinion.

Allegedly, I'm a ninja! With Heat Vision!!

Truthfully, the game works for a lot of people.

 

[Heliotic]

You might have a point, but what if such a lawsuit lead to fewer games (as you agree), but of higher quality? I wouldn't mind if they skipped all the mediocre titles and really polished off the good ones instead, taking their time and charging more... or maybe they wouldn't have to if all the devs worked on fewer games and sold more copies of each

That's the opposite of what we want though. Games are already horrifically expensive, and companies won't take a risk on a new thing, instead wanting to churn out GTA 236 which they know will sell a million units.

What we really want is for games to cost less to produce. Instead of 100 titles a year, we could have 1000 and even if the majority are crap, there are sure to be a few good ones in there.

Driving up the cost of production will just be another nail in the coffin of PC gaming..

(Although if you think about it, that could be a good thing. If the big names did get out of the PC business, smaller companies would spring up to fill the gap in demand, and we could still end up with a lot of less polished, but more enjoyable games).

 

[Fredric Drum]

Allegedly, I'm a ninja! With Heat Vision!!

The difference is that T2 rushing the game is a VERY likely scenario, whereas you being a ninja (with heat vision) is something you made up on the spot and you're the only one saying it. Your 'case' has no relevance with the issue in question.

But I don't think even you would deny that software houses in general frequently release games prematurely, games that contain errors that would have been spotted and ironed out if they were allowed to work on it some more. There will never be a bug free game or software, but they can certainly be better than today. Don't you agree?

 

[Fredric Drum]

That's the opposite of what we want though. Games are already horrifically expensive, and companies won't take a risk on a new thing, instead wanting to churn out GTA 236 which they know will sell a million units.

What we really want is for games to cost less to produce. Instead of 100 titles a year, we could have 1000 and even if the majority are crap, there are sure to be a few good ones in there.

Driving up the cost of production will just be another nail in the coffin of PC gaming..

(Although if you think about it, that could be a good thing. If the big names did get out of the PC business, smaller companies would spring up to fill the gap in demand, and we could still end up with a lot of less polished, but more enjoyable games).

I don't agree that computer games are expensive. Divide the sum you pay with the number of hours you play the game, and you end up with insanely cheap entertainment. Now, going to see a movie, THAT's expensive.. And we don't even know that computer games will be more expensive if a lawsuit should succeed.

And it's just as likely that the small guys (with the poor games) would be squeezed out and the big ones remain. Neither you nor me know for sure. Microsoft are being sued left and right and are still in business.

 

[warpstorm]

You might have a point, but what if such a lawsuit lead to fewer games (as you agree), but of higher quality?

No, what would happen is what is starting to happen in the console world. Less variety because those with the moeny it takes to play in that arena, don't like risks. EA is a prime example. Their 2006 lineup has one title that isn't a sequel or a movie tie-in (or in one case a sequel to a movie tie-in). Is this what you want?

 

[Mujadaddy]

The difference is that T2 rushing the game is a VERY likely scenario, whereas you being a ninja (with heat vision) is something you made up on the spot and you're the only one saying it. Your 'case' has no relevance with the issue in question.

But I don't think even you would deny that software houses in general frequently release games prematurely, games that contain errors that would have been spotted and ironed out if they were allowed to work on it some more. There will never be a bug free game or software, but they can certainly be better than today. Don't you agree?

Regardless--the game works on my machine, as well as many other peoples'.

 

[Mujadaddy]

re: "Rushing" the game versus "could certainly be better"

"Do not allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good" (where is that from? Any help?)

 

[Heliotic]

I don't agree that computer games are expensive. Divide the sum you pay with the number of hours you play the game, and you end up with insanely cheap entertainment. Now, going to see a movie, THAT's expensive.. And we don't even know that computer games will be more expensive if a lawsuit should succeed.

And it's just as likely that the small guys (with the poor games) would be squeezed out and the big ones remain. Neither you nor me know for sure. Microsoft are being sued left and right and are still in business.

I don't mean expensive to buy, I mean expensive to make.

Compare the cost of making say.. syndicate vs the cost of making GTA3, HL2 or Doom 3.

It will astonish you

And it is why it is difficult to convince game companies to make anything but the new BF, GTA, or MMORPG because they want to see RoI.

 

[Gary224]

First of all i want to praise, MrManganese for the post.

Most people are such "victims" in society and never stand up for themselves. The games industry has been exploiting people for years. The price of the games, the lies about the specs required and many more.

Secondly im suprised the mods allowed this thread. I saw the threat by Civrules not to talk about a crack. Are they being paid by the makers of the game? As a result i thought they would not allow a post like this.

 

[TheDervish]

I'm not pleased with minimal testing with multiple platforms, nor inflated requirements on Firaxis' part, but I would never sue. I really don't feel like suing anyone. The US judicial system is buckling under enough pressure from every plaintiff attorney out there that takes a nutball's case and makes a fortune in damages in quick judgments and legal fees on all sides. Don't put anymore pressure on this system, eventually the dam will break.

 

[jimkirk]

Now that the fanboys have leapt at the opportunity to quell this discussion, I'd like to invite everyone else to speak up a bit. Over 50% of the respondants have, after all, responded in the affirmative. Naturally we couldn't ask for anything more than the price of the game in return.. this sort of lawsuit isn't awarding punitive damages, like so many others. It would just seek to reclaim the money that was unreasonably collected for a product that should not have been on the market. Each of us may think that $50 isn't worth the money to file a lawsuit, but I guarantee that Firaxis and Take Two believe ripping us off is worth the millions of dollars they are currently collecting. We don't have to let them take advantage of people. This was not an accident on their part - someone made the conscious decision to release a broken game, and they should not be rewarded for it. In order for justice to be served, the people must be refunded.

I'm a long-time gamer, and I've witnessed the decline of the industry. I think it is worth the effort to fight a single court battle on behalf of a large number of people, even for such a small amount of money, if it sends the message that this sort of bad business will not be tolerated.

there isnt a sane lawyer in the country who will take your case
i agree with your point about software companies producing cr@pand releasing stuff early but unless the case is so solid no lawyer will entertain a lawsuit and besides take2 is not the only company that releases products too early so does canon-nikon-sony-kodak- microsoft-apple adobe and otehrs who release too early bottom line we all pay to beta test why because we are addicts

 

[Trepanated]

I registered on the forums just so I could vote no in this poll.

I started to say that this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, but then I remembered that I'm getting up there in years now, and consequently I have heard of a very large number of very dumb things. So I'm going to go ahead and estimate that, of all the extremely dumb things I have ever heard of, this idea is dumber than approximately 70% of them.

Which is not such a bad score, if that's what you were going for.

 

[Stargirl]

there isnt a sane lawyer in the country who will take your case
i agree with your point about software companies producing cr@pand releasing stuff early but unless the case is so solid no lawyer will entertain a lawsuit and besides take2 is not the only company that releases products too early so does canon-nikon-sony-kodak- microsoft-apple adobe and otehrs who release too early bottom line we all pay to beta test why because we are addicts

You live in america bro..

You could find thousands of lawyers who would take the case in a hearbeat

But anyways.. i think sueing fraxis is stupid... and anyways i guess in the EULA there will be something saying that they cant be responsible blahb blah etc

 

[Double Blade]

In a world where a lady spills coffee on herself and sues McDonald's for getting burned and wins, sueing a company for selling a faulty product has no chance?

 

[wit>trope]

PC game industry would not suffer permanent death. Simple economics would tell you that. If anything it would cause companies that warpstorm RECOMMENDED and urged people to buy more from like Shrapnel Games to THRIVE.

But even if it somehow causes permanent death, that may still be a good thing. Then the console gaming market will include an influx of gamers who have an appetite for non-mindless games like Civ and true RPGs -- and this will cause PC-style games to thrive on the consoles, with possibly something similar to a mouse and keyboard as equipment that these subset of console games would support (you could still play on a couch of the mouse is a special kind of mouse etc)

 

[Mujadaddy]

Most people are such "victims" in society and never stand up for themselves.

Stand up and return the game and get it out of your life if you feel "victimized."

The games industry has been exploiting people for years.

No, the CLOTHING industry has been exploiting people for years, getting children to sew your clothes and shoes. How is selling you a game even related to exploitation at all? If anything has been exploited by Take2 it is the ignorance of the buying public.

The price of the games, the lies about the specs required and many more.

Price too high? Don't buy it. Feel lied to? Don't trust the company ever again.

Secondly im suprised the mods allowed this thread. I saw the threat by Civrules not to talk about a crack.

The difference is that a CRACK is ILLEGAL. Discussing suing someone isn't. See the difference?

Are they being paid by the makers of the game? As a result i thought they would not allow a post like this.

I don't think anyone here gets paid for anything. As a result you are malinformed.

 

[Mujadaddy]

I registered on the forums just so I could vote no in this poll.

I started to say that this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, but then I remembered that I'm getting up there in years now, and consequently I have heard of a very large number of very dumb things. So I'm going to go ahead and estimate that, of all the extremely dumb things I have ever heard of, this idea is dumber than approximately 70% of them.

Which is not such a bad score, if that's what you were going for.

Hey, 70% is better than...
Yes 58 11.91%
No 429 88.09%
88%

 

[Communisto]

you want to sue them... because their game that you payed for had bugs? Wow, im sorry but that is one of the nerdiest things ever. Go outside and stop hanging out with the woman who sued mcdonalds because her coffee was too hot.