Class action lawsuit

[Milan's Warrior]

The problem with that line of reasoning, legally, is that Firaxis/Take2 only has to show that ONE SINGLE computer with the min. req's in the WHOLE WORLD is capable of running Civ4, and the case will be thrown out for lack of merit.

No, the hypothetical class action suit would involve the breach of contract implied by the suit. The "contract" in this case, is the license agreement that the user ACCEDES to when they install the software. In the EULA, there are many, many, MANY stipulations as to how disputes with the publisher are to be settled-- Like jurisdiction and other rules, such as picking up the publisher's court costs. (In many civil trials, however, the party "at fault" *IS* required to pay the other side's legal bills. It varies, though). I don't have the EULA right here in front of me, but I'd suspect that Firaxis/Take2 stipulates that disputes are ARBITRATED, not TRIED --- which, if true, makes the idea of a class action suit even more ridiculous.

I take it by your emote at the end you don't find this line of argument plausible. Again, the contract (EULA) undoubtedly stipulates that, at the end of the day, the user's damages are capped at the value of the product.

The reasons this thread has provoked such fiery opposition are detailed above, summed up in "ignorance of the law."

But a person who wanted to initiate a class action lawsuit would not do it under "breach of contract", rather either under "fraudolent inducement" or under "fraudolent misrepresentation", that (as far as I understand) are not bound by the EULA.

The reasons this thread has provoked such fiery opposition are detailed above, summed up in "ignorance of the law."

I take it that this is a post in this thread; I'll look for it.

 

[King Flevance]

Dont give it to EA

 

[grimz]

^^ I dislike EA just as much as everyone else - but I'll give them credit - as bad as they do things - the NEVER mess up on packaging and manuals. I've always had decent documentation for every EA game i've ever bought.

 

[Kolyana]

This thread is silly.

 

[EdCase]

2K games are some amateur budget game publishers. They should get out of this business and leave it to the big boys like EA or Activision. At least they'll get the games out with proper labels - and I've always had no problems with getting manuals from those publishers.

How true..but only if you want to play dismal sports games or lackluster clones of other games. EA and Activision would have published Civ for sure (its a known quantity)...they also would have dropped it and pretended it hadn't happened by now(very very poor after the fact support...especially EA...I am NOT expecting either Firaxis or Take2 to do that.

 

[grimz]

^^ No response from 2K or Firaxis on sending me a copy of the game manual. EA would have sent it to me by now. Support has been disastrous so far.

 

[grimz]

whoah... multiple posts - ignore!

 

[EvilDrummer]

8 minutes later I'm done reading this entire thread. And you know what: I am disappointed. Disappointed like Zorg in The Fifth Element disappointed. How this thread has managed to stay open for so long with no actual depth is amazing. Thank you friendly moderators for not banning at least 7 of you.
Anyway, if someone wants to file a class action lawsuit him be. If he is serious, there can be nothing said that can stop him. Moreover even if it does get to trial, it'll be dropped like Ashlee Simpsons last album. But who knows maybe it'll set a legal precidence (spelling) in the future. So when someone brings this up when Civ 5 comes out we can just quote and move on and play the game and do something else to make this an even longer run-on sentence.
Now off to playing Civ 4 i go. With my ATI video card.

_Hannibal is at the gates_

 

[wit>trope]

I would prefer a class action lawsuit against a multitude of companies, and not just the ones in the poll ... they aren't any much worse than the average company.

I think a class action lawsuit would have to be about Civ 3 not Civ 4. They released Civ 4 without fully patching Civ 3. That seems unethical to me -- to abandon a buggy product a client has already bought and payed for. If they don't intend to fully patch Civ 3, they should give their clients (us customers) at least a partial refund or allow us to subtract the retail cost of Civ 3 from the retail cost of Civ 4 -- which is more or less exactly what another company did for this one game that was incredibly buggy (I mean so buggy that you could barely get it to run and play)

Having a client buy a product from you involves a committment on your part to, if the product is buggy, to support it by providing all necessary patches. If that committment is abandoned (like in Civ 3), then the contract is broken. Thus it seems there is a case for a class action law suit here.

With Civ 4, I'm not sure.

 

[RoboPig]

The gaming industry has been ripping people off for a couple of years now. TakeTwo & Firaxis have crossed a line, and I think it's time to make an example of them. Who's interested in seeing a class action lawsuit against TakeTwo and/or Firaxis?

Good for you MrManganese! Take down Take two for their unprofeesional handling of the publishing. I support you!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mujadaddy]

The problem with that line of reasoning, legally, is that Firaxis/Take2 only has to show that ONE SINGLE computer with the min. req's in the WHOLE WORLD is capable of running Civ4, and the case will be thrown out for lack of merit.

It's simple. If it can be demonstrated that ONE computer at the min requirements can run the computer, then Firaxis/Take2 haven't committed fraud with their "System Requirements" ... "case dismissed"

No, the hypothetical class action suit would involve the breach of contract implied by the suit. The "contract" in this case, is the license agreement that the user ACCEDES to when they install the software. In the EULA, there are many, many, MANY stipulations as to how disputes with the publisher are to be settled-- Like jurisdiction and other rules, such as picking up the publisher's court costs. (In many civil trials, however, the party "at fault" *IS* required to pay the other side's legal bills. It varies, though). I don't have the EULA right here in front of me, but I'd suspect that Firaxis/Take2 stipulates that disputes are ARBITRATED, not TRIED --- which, if true, makes the idea of a class action suit even more ridiculous.

I take it by your emote at the end you don't find this line of argument plausible. Again, the contract (EULA) undoubtedly stipulates that, at the end of the day, the user's damages are capped at the value of the product.

But a person who wanted to initiate a class action lawsuit would not do it under "breach of contract", rather either under "fraudolent inducement" or under "fraudolent misrepresentation", that (as far as I understand) are not bound by the EULA.
Right, but for the case to have merit, there must be a fraud committed. That isn't the case.

The reasons this thread has provoked such fiery opposition are detailed above, summed up in "ignorance of the law."

I take it that this is a post in this thread; I'll look for it.
No, no, I meant the comments in THAT post...err, this post...

 

[Multiplicity]

As many technical hurdles as there may be in creating a video game, I guarantee that technologies like DirectX and XML are making the developer's jobs easier, not harder. These should not be pointed to as the causes of fatal bugs.

You gaurantee? That opinion is not really a guarantee unless that statement is backed with legitimate facts.

 

[grimz]

While a class action lawsuit is a bit extreme and not really feasible. I don't think it's too much to ask for an apology, a copy of the game's manual and maybe some bug fixes.

 

[HourlyDaily]

I don't support the lawsuit - but I know for a fact that you can't write off fradulent misrepresentation and similar issues by getting users to sign a EULA.

Someone may sign and agree to something - which strengthens the publishers position, but it doesn't remove responsiblity for the product and any misrepresentation that occurs. Also products usually need to be 'of merchantable quality' in order to be sold by retailers.

 

[wit>trope]

There was class action lawsuit before against company who made Ultima Online, I believe.

Who won that one?

 

[Birdjaguar]

8 minutes later I'm done reading this entire thread. And you know what: I am disappointed. How this thread has managed to stay open for so long with no actual depth is amazing.

Hang out on OT some time we can go on for 500 posts without any depth.

 

[ununcle]

i dont mean to be a dinkus, but.. what exactly would you intend to sue them for? what sort of renumeration would one expect, beyond that of the purchase price of the game? i didnt mean to threaten them, although i see how you could take my post that way, all im saying is before people run to lawyers over a faulty computer game... try it a more diplomatic way, if everyone who had an issue emailed, called, or wrote a letter the the president or who ever, you may be surprised. that and how long has it been, we dont really know (or alteast i dont) if they are frantically working on the issues right now! i am aware that they are being less than forthcoming when it comes to announcing the problems publically (presumably out of fear of hurting initial sales) which isnt cool.
i dont really know where im goin with all this. i think sueing is a little excessive, and tho we are all pi**ed off, there are steps we can all take before jumping the gun.

thanks for lettin me rant

For the love of god, please put a discailmer at the top that say's "i dont really know where I'm goin with all this." next time. Th anks in advance.

 

[Mujadaddy]

I don't support the lawsuit - but I know for a fact that you can't write off fradulent misrepresentation and similar issues by getting users to sign a EULA.

Someone may sign and agree to something - which strengthens the publishers position, but it doesn't remove responsiblity for the product and any misrepresentation that occurs. Also products usually need to be 'of merchantable quality' in order to be sold by retailers.

BUT (and there would have to be a trial/arbitration to settle this finally) there hasn't been any fraud committed if Firaxis can demonstrate that their min requirements are enough on ONE machine.

EULAs aren't bulletproof, agreed... but "class action lawsuit" is ridiculous.

 

[Mujadaddy]

There was class action lawsuit before against company who made Ultima Online, I believe.

Who won that one?

From http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2004/04/uo_lawsuit_sett.html

Just a little background - a group of former UO volunteer helpers filed a class action lawsuit against EA in 2000 (they'd been previously hit with a suit about their quality of service but that was dismissed as far as I can tell). The main claim was for minimum wages and overtime compensation per the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

So it's not even CLOSE to comparable.

 

[ununcle]

I voted yes and here's why. Back in the day great games were made not because of a multi-billion $ franchise. They were developed by people with vision, and they were "hungry" visionaries. Games today don't do that. Yet games of yesteryear could be returned. Games today can't. There's no check and balance today. Well,,,,that's why.