Clearing up misconceptions about Islam ( the religion ) , and a request . . . . . .

[Tycho Brahe]

.... Who knows Islam better? Muslims or Christians/Hindus/Followers of other religions? Muslims know their religion better. So why not read books written by Muslims? If you read actual Muslim texts, then you will understand Islam.
....

The outsider can sometimes understand something better than those who are raised and have accepted a ceartain tradition. Youre definition totaly rules out any critical oppinion, because if you reject the tradition you are not a "true beliver".

 

[Capulet]

If you want to see if Islam is a religion of peace look at all the borders of the Islamic world; Kashmir, Sudan, Tjetjenie, Bosnia, Israel, East-Timor, Morocco, Sri Lanka, Libanon, Afghanistan etc. The list of conflicts goes on and on. It seems that whereever Muslims clash with people from a different religion its trouble. Just an observation...

Historically, before the foundation of secular governments, did people of opposite religions ever get along? Jews and Christians? Muslims and Christians? Catholics and Protestants? Buddhists and Hindus?

Ever hear of the French Wars of Religions? The Inquisition? The Thirty Years War? Historically, this is nothing new.

Only in modern times, with the wide spread of democracy and seperation of church and state throughout the Old World, did these wars of religion stop.

The outsider can sometimes understand something better than those who are raised and have accepted a ceartain tradition. Youre definition totaly rules out any critical oppinion, because if you reject the tradition you are not a "true beliver".

Honestly, I could care less about tradition. Of course I was raised in Islam, but this means that I also know my religion better than an outsider, right? How can you honestly understand something that you've never lived?

My point to you all was that rather than reading websites and commentary, why not read the Qur'an and the Hadith yourself? Who better to interpert Islam than yourselves? Keep an open mind.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I have found that whenever I make a criticism of or observation on Islam on this forum , I am swamped by posts which claim that whatever point I raise is not "true" Islam , it is just a corruption/perversion/whatever . I've become sick of this rationalisation , and I've decided to end it once and for all ( at least for myself ) . Whenever someone tries to rationalise my criticism away this way , I will point him to this thread .

All these points about Islam are probably true. But it is also true that Islam has promoted enlightenment during its golden age, at a time when Christians were burning witches. It is also true that, in current times, Islam is the world's biggest source of terrorism. That just goes to show that a religion can be construed to mean anything you want it to mean.

I'm an atheist, so I don't see any one religion as special, either for bad or good, but I can't blame Islam specifically as being worse than any other religion.

 

[sysyphus]

The outsider can sometimes understand something better than those who are raised and have accepted a ceartain tradition. Youre definition totaly rules out any critical oppinion, because if you reject the tradition you are not a "true beliver".

Perhaps, but an outsider is in no place to tell the practitioner what the fundamental tenets of his religion are. How can you possibly claim to know what a religion is all about if you've never practised it?

There's been more than enough evidence to show to any objective outsider that Islam does not inherently support intolerance. Just because some muslims are intolerant, it doesn't mean they have to be.

 

[Tycho Brahe]

.....
Honestly, I could care less about tradition. Of course I was raised in Islam, but this means that I also know my religion better than an outsider, right? How can you honestly understand something that you've never lived?

My point to you all was that rather than reading websites and commentary, why not read the Qur'an and the Hadith yourself? Who better to interpert Islam than yourselves? Keep an open mind.

Honestly, I could care less about if Osama Bin Laden is a true muslim or not. He claims that he is (was), so his actions is a part of the big picture of islam today.

If You don't think he is (was) a true muslim, then I sympathise with youre interpetation of islam. But still, Osamas version is there.

The outsider who doesn't know the traditions may not understand islam as deeply as a beliver. But he can descripe the big picture and point out stuff that insiders wouldn´t have thought of. Like a overall lack of womens rights, critical reflections and so forth....

If you brush of everything said by outsiders, you might walk around with parsley on youre teeth much longer than nececary.

"I will only accept critique from people who agree whith me"

 

[Tycho Brahe]

Perhaps, but an outsider is in no place to tell the practitioner what the fundamental tenets of his religion are. How can you possibly claim to know what a religion is all about if you've never practised it?

There's been more than enough evidence to show to any objective outsider that Islam does not inherently support intolerance. Just because some muslims are intolerant, it doesn't mean they have to be.

I dont think an outsider can teach the followers anything about the theology of their own religion. But he/she can still make observations on the behaviour of people who claims to follow that relligion.

 

[sysyphus]

I dont think an outsider can teach the followers anything about the theology of their own religion. But he/she can still make observations on the behaviour of people who claims to follow that relligion.

So are you willing to make the same parallels with Pat Robertson and Christianity as you do with Bin Laden and Islam?

 

[Tycho Brahe]

So are you willing to make the same parallels with Pat Robertson and Christianity as you do with Bin Laden and Islam?

Who's Pat Robertson?

But I probably would. He´s part of the Chrisatian world, even though his way of being christian (probably) has almost nothing in common with whats going on in my local church.

Not to mention a lot of people who claim they fight for democracy, but in my opinion they really don't.

 

[blackheart]

It will be a great day when I can accept what a Hindu says about Muslims isn't full of hate and biasness. That day hasn't come.

 

[Tycho Brahe]

It will be a great day when I can accept what a Hindu says about Muslims isn't full of hate and biasness. That day hasn't come.

I haven't read the links, but I think I agree.

But still, non-muslims CAN contribute to better understanding of islam. Sometimes.

 

[MobBoss]

Who's Pat Robertson?

But I probably would. He´s part of the Chrisatian world, even though his way of being christian (probably) has almost nothing in common with whats going on in my local church.

Not to mention a lot of people who claim they fight for democracy, but in my opinion they really don't.

Now wait a minute. As goofy as Pat Robertson can be that is by far not a fair comparison. When Pat Robertson starts training christian terrorists and encouraging them to go out and blow themselves up for their belief then yeah, sure...but to my knowledge all Pat has done has been to say some stupid things - which other christians immediately denounced.

Which brings me to my main issue with Islam. If the religion is as you say it is a peaceful religion, then it sure is doing a poor job of cleaning its own house per se. I would have expected far more and a far wider range of opposition to islamic terrorists if the religion were so "peaceful" wouldnt you?

In these days and times if you see a christian do something idiotic like blow up an abortion clinic it is denouced by the christian community pretty much in total. Or like saying something stupid like assassinate someone - its spoken out against by the christian community....I havent seen that to a large extent in the Muslim world....

 

[Capulet]

Which brings me to my main issue with Islam. If the religion is as you say it is a peaceful religion, then it sure is doing a poor job of cleaning its own house per se. I would have expected far more and a far wider range of opposition to islamic terrorists if the religion were so "peaceful" wouldnt you?

In these days and times if you see a christian do something idiotic like blow up an abortion clinic it is denouced by the christian community pretty much in total. Or like saying something stupid like assassinate someone - its spoken out against by the christian community....I havent seen that to a large extent in the Muslim world....

The condemnation is there.

Lists of statements:
http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html
http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-07/07/article07.shtml

But even then, people aren't satisified.

 

[Homie]

People say the minority of the muslim world are violent. Quite a few use violence, and the majority of those that don't use violence support the one's that do. So the notion "That is just the minority" is completely false. If they could kick the infidel's asses they would, they just aren't strong enough militarily and economically to do it now.

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

and the majority of those that don't use violence support the one's that do.

Mind providing a source for that claim? Honestly, your post is full of incredibly broad generalizations.

 

[JohnRM]

Meh, there are violent warmongering extremists in the Islamic world and there are violent warmongering extremists in the Christian world, in fact there are violent warmongering extremists period. Get over it.

 

[Urederra]

According to the Quran , that is because Allah made them defective , and gave them only one out of a thousand virtues , the other nine hundred and ninety nine being given to men . As this is revealed by Allah himself , no reform is possible ( for it would contradict what Allah says ) .

Which virtues are they?

Few questions....

Can you build a church or a synagoge in Saudi Arabia?


Can a woman walk along the streets of all the muslim countries without having to have her head wrapped in some short?

Can you cellebrate Eastern in Iran?

 

[blackheart]

People say the minority of the muslim world are violent. Quite a few use violence, and the majority of those that don't use violence support the one's that do. So the notion "That is just the minority" is completely false. If they could kick the infidel's asses they would, they just aren't strong enough militarily and economically to do it now.

The ignorance is fuming up from that post and into my nostrils. Got any factual basis to back it up, or is it just your own opinion of what your perception coupld with limited facts is?

 

[blackheart]

People say the minority of the muslim world are violent. Quite a few use violence, and the majority of those that don't use violence support the one's that do. So the notion "That is just the minority" is completely false. If they could kick the infidel's asses they would, they just aren't strong enough militarily and economically to do it now.

Come to think of it, this statement is part of the problem. People on both sides are too ignorant and fearful of the other side so they make up their own version of truth and stick by it even when it is disproven.

 

[Homie]

Meh, there are violent warmongering extremists in the Islamic world and there are violent warmongering extremists in the Christian world, in fact there are violent warmongering extremists period. Get over it.

You cannot possibly look at what is going on and equate the two?

You people want to close your eyes and play tolerant and PC, fine, go right ahead. The truth about islam is so blatantly obvious that I find it strange that(western) people still claim to these ideas of peaceful islam.

 

[blackheart]

You cannot possibly look at what is going on and equate the two?

You people want to close your eyes and play tolerant and PC, fine, go right ahead. The truth about islam is so blatantly obvious that I find it strange that(western) people still claim to these ideas of peaceful islam.

It isn't a matter of PC, it's a matter of not seeing a narrow view. You seem to think that tolerance is PC, which infact is false.