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Clive1 - Monarch (Training ?) game

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Sir Clive, Jul 10, 2004.

  1. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Horley,Surrey,England

    Re S-SW - Yes it is game !
    Re wheat - plains 3/2/1 - grassland 4/2/0
    Dotmaps - I am rubbish - I have never done one before (this is my first SG !)

    I've never used RCP. I've normally tended to try to build my cities as close as possible to the resources / land that I want without caring too much about the distance between them . I do appreciate the point of having no more than 3 tiles between centres so that troops can move quickly but I only tend to do that on smaller maps.

    One thing that slightly concerns me is that there look like quite a few places which will be excellent for quick population growth but not too many which have big shield potential. We're going to need to start pumping out some military at some stage and I'm not sure where we should build the town which will have our first barracks.

    How do you guys feel about worker numbers ? I tend to normally have at least 2 per town. Although we don't have too much jungle / forest to deal with I think we are going to need to mine a few grasslands early on and we're going to need to road out to the horse ASAP. If we're going out that way early we may be able to grab the 3 incense .

    I'll now try for my first dot map (might take me some time !!)
     
  2. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    If you're getting 4 food from the grass/wheat (+2 surplus) and 3 from the plains/wheat (+1 surplus) then you've got your +5fpt surplus for the settler pump (+2 from city center).
    Forget about RCP. This is conquests, right? RCP is out. Make your city site selections based on terrain, and how you want to use it.
    I disagree... I don't see a lot of floodplains...
    You're going to need some more workers, true. Setting up a worker factory is something worth considering with all the land up for grabs... but you need more cites first. IMO, a more pressing matter is figuring out how you're going to develop the capitol from this point.

    I'd be glad to have a look if you'd like me to... it'd help if someone would zoom in on the capitol, take a screencap, and crop everything but the city itself.
     
  3. viper275

    viper275 Playing Civ4

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    I did the math for the settler factory and here's what I got:

    We need 5 fpt plus 2 for each citizen. We also need 8 spt. Spt is shields per turn and fpt is food per turn. I'm not counting gold per turn here since it's fpt and spt we worry about with the settler factory.

    The capital alone produces 2 fpt and 1 spt, so it can support the first citizen and give 1 shield. That citizen works on the irrigated plains square with wheat (3 fpt and 1 spt.) So now we need 2 more fpt plus 2 for each citizen, and 7 more spt. The second citizen works on the irrigated grassland with wheat, which gives 4 fpt and 0 spt. So now we need no more fpt as long as we have 2 for each citizen and 7 spt. Now the third citizen works on the Game square with the forest, generating 2 fpt and 2 spt. Now we need 5 more spt. The fourth citizen can work the bonus grassland, which when mined gives us 2 spt and 2 fpt. 3 spt left. My thought from here is to irrigate the sugar, so it gives 3 fpt and 1 spt. That's 1 additional fpt to support the sixth and final citizen working a forest square.

    The only problem with this is that we'd have to get around unhappiness. Since luxuries are raised, does that mean that one of our citizens born content is happy (that's my assumtion, but it's not that the citizen happy doesn't take the content citizen.) So a temple makes the third citizen content, then 2 units for martial law make citizens content, and the 1 unhappy citizen is balanced out by the happy one (and by then, the 10% luxuries would make more than just 1 citizen happy, right?) So this should work unless we switch to Republic, and by then we could have Colosseums.
     
  4. Tarkeel

    Tarkeel Imperial

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    Viper, irrigating the sugar will only give 2 food in despotism. You also don't need 8 shields, you need 6-6-7-7 with a forest each time you grow, turning it into 6-8-7-9. Scroll back to my previous post on how your current location is a settler factory :)

    Luxury works in turning a certain % of the gold the city produces into happines, the same way it turns gold into gpt and research beakers. 1 gold from luxury = 1 happy person. It will try to make content people happy first, and if there are no contents, it makes an unhappy citizen content. You'll most likely be running 30% lux (I sometimes run 50% lux in the start), but gold isn't as important as food and population is, atleast in the start.
     
  5. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

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    Here is how you would set up your factory:

    irrigated wheat on plains: 3f, 1s
    irrigated wheat on grass: 4f, 0s
    Mined BG tile: 2f, 2s
    Mined Sugar on plains: 2f, 2s
    City center square: 2f,1s

    For a total of 13f and 6s. For size 4, you need 8f, leaving a surplus of 5f.

    For turn one : work the above, getting 6s
    For turn two: Same as above, but the new citizen gets added to the forest, givinga free 2s, for a total of 14.
    For turn three: move citizen from forestto mined grass, get 7s for a total of 21
    For turn four: Same as above, second new citizen gets added to forest to get 2 free shields, total of 30.

    Note: You must have the governor set to "emphasize production for this to work. You also have to move the citizen on every turn two.
     
  6. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    @team:Tarkeel and Sesn are on it. Don't overlook the game/forest tile, 2fpt/2spt, and don't overlook the fact that you can't grow 2 citizens in 4 turns without a granary.

    Somebody posted something about temples... it's a little early for that. Bede'll probably say that's another one of my understatements.

    Also - if that's a settler to the southeast near that wheat tile, you might have found your worker pump... (though you need to be careful where you plant him)

    Re: Dotmaps. I find it helpful to take screencaps with gridlines one, and outline the nine tiles surrounding possible city centers. It helps paint a clear picture of how you are utilizing the terrain. Some prefer to sketch out 21, but I like to work with 9 because it tells me what that city will get to use immediately.

    Once you have a settling plan roughed in, it makes it a lot easier to manage the expansion phase.

    Just my free advice. I hope it's worth the price. :)
     
  7. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

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    Location:
    Horley,Surrey,England
    Here's the city shot (although I think pretty much a full description has been posted by now :)



    (hope I got it right this time :) )
     
  8. SesnOfWthr

    SesnOfWthr True Believer

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    I think I want my money back -- with interest!! :lol:
     
  9. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    suggest we put next settlement to west, directly between the cow and the lone mountain. Events are interesting so far (i've never used the lux slider this early in the game). I usually like to start a barracks somewhere after we've built the 4th city - thoughts?
     
  10. MSTK

    MSTK Deity

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    Sir Clive - you can upload sav fies as an attachment.

    Also, can you move me near the bototm? I have no connection to the internet until Thursday.
     
  11. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

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    This is the current roster MSTK -

    mtgfreak - Just played
    Sir Clive - Got it ! will play next 10 turns
    Bede - on deck
    Viper275 -
    MSTK -
    Admiral Kutzov -

    I will be playing tomorrow night (London time) so you are unlikely to be up before the weekend
     
  12. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

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    OK - I will be playing tomorrow evening so here are my initial thoughts

    Research is at 8/1/1 we have 79G and are at +1G PT
    We have
    1 settler, 1 worker , 1 scout, 4 warriors (units allowed 4 - cost 3 gpt)

    Hattusas is builder Settler , due in 9

    We are researching CB - due in 31

    General plan -

    1) Micromanage Hattusas to become settler factory as per lurkers / players recommendations.

    2) Settle second city. Would like to do this ASAP - would 1 tile SE of where he currently is be any good ? We would have fish + BG + coast and then 2bg tobacco and wheat after expansion.

    3) Hattusas Settler when built ) to head south west towards cattle / horses / silks

    4) Second city to start producing a couple of workers initially , then barracks / military ,(or can we afford to wait for third city to do that ? ). We are going to need some MP sooner or later unless we want to keep lux tax at a ridiculously high level.

    5) We are going to need to hook up some lux soon or increase luxury tax - don't think I will be able to get the wines to the north or the spices to the west hooked up in my 10 turns but I think we need to try to head out West to secure the horses .

    6) Keep moving scouts North and see what we find .

    7) Research - we are currently researching CB due in 31 and Japan already has this - should we switch ?

    Sorry I haven't managed a dot map yet :(
     
  13. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

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    http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/Clive_3000_dotmap.jpg.JPG

    I do agree with Admiral that the second town is probably best to the west but since the settler is already headed south and we have another on the way soon I think we would waste too many turns turning him around.

    I'd like to get the horses hooked up earlier but I can't really see any way of doing it without leaving huge gaps.

    Iron would be useful at some stage and most of the land around us is fairly flat so that's why I have gone for D , but we we might need to swap D and E around
     
  14. Chunky Kong

    Chunky Kong Warlord

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    Oh, dang. Hittites? Don't have C3C...people should REALLY put what version of Civ 3 they're doing...
     
  15. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

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    Really sorry Chunky - It's my first ever succession game so I'm not very good at this yet :( I will update the opening post to make it clear
     
  16. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    Let's try this dotmap thing again... something got nerfed up here... Is this your dotmap, Sir Clive?

     
  17. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    mtgfreak:
    Turn 17: hattusas settler ->settler, move settler SE to coastal spot with wheat, tobacco, fishes, and 3 bg


    While I like mtgfreak's thinking here, I'm not sure we need to grab all that with one city....

    Admiral_Kutzov
    suggest we put next settlement to west, directly between the cow and the lone mountain.


    I like a couple of spots in that area too...for a number of reasons. Don't be surprised if that spot shows up on "another" dotmap. :mischief:

    The more I look at Clive's "Site A", the more I like it... I hadn't noticed the whale down there. In time, that one could become a coastal powerhouse.

    I'm going to play with this and see if I can't come up with something for the team to chew on....
     
  18. Sir Clive

    Sir Clive King

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  19. Bede

    Bede Deity

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    Temples...temples...priests are prevaricating parasites who pillage the body politic.

    You want culture, build libraries. You get something back from the investment.

    You want content citizens, build marketplaces, trade for luxuries, build towns for luxuries, build colonies for luxuries.

    If happiness is a problem in a settler or worker farm, it is a self-limiting problem. Raise the luxury tax, hire an MP, you only need to make the expenditure for a couple of turns. Temples are with you forever and are a permanent drag on the economy.

    Understatement...bah!
     
  20. scoutsout

    scoutsout Minstrel Boy

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    This is probably a little tighter build-out pattern than some of you guys are used to. The idea here is that claiming terrain is nice, but in order for the terrain to do you any good, you've got to have citizens working tiles. You don't have much in the way of rivers here. A lot of these towns will be stuck at size 6 without aquecucts; better to use the best 6 of 9 tiles than the best 6 of 20 or so... Forget everything you ever read about Optimal City Placement. Wecome to the levels in which the AI enjoy production and research discounts over the human. :D

    Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

    Dotmap notes:

    1) This looks like a decent place to pump workers, and you're there already.
    2) If you're going to have a second settler pump, it'll be here. This will also be the only site you have besides your capitol that won't need an aqueduct.
    3) Beating Japan to the Silks will be tough.
    4) Instant road connection to horse town
    4a) Beating Japan to the horses will also be tough.

    The pink-ish line is a priority road project. Don't neglect improvements in the capitol to build this road, but building it quickly should help expansion efforts.

    My thoughts:

    Try to get a second settler pump going at Site 2...or at least a site capable of producing enough settlers to help with expansion. If you could get 4 settlers out of this city to settle the 4 sites to the south, it will take a lot of pressure off the primary settler pump.

    To the north of the northernmost site (wines) lies another river... and some jungle. You'll need to get there if you can - for coal and rubber. There is also some incense to the northwest... but you'll probably have to take that from somebody else.

    Beating Japan to the horses and Silks will be tough; you should probably start mulling over war-plans for for Japan in the back of your mind. And no, I'm not kidding about that. ;)

    Going back to lurk mode for a while...

     

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