Code of Laws Proposal (complete replacement)

But if we do it piecemeal, it can also lead to disaster. I tried to do just that with two amendments limiting offices and "fixing" the way vacancies are filled. They eventually got combined into a single amendment. However, I didn't envision every posibility (namely a tie in the President's election) and the empty instructions in the law caused the mess in the Judiciary that will last through this term and into the next one. After that experience I feel that a complete replacement will make it easier for the citizens to see the CoL as a whole instead of thinking this or that chunk is good and missing some loopholes it could create.
 
GeorgeOP - a tie in the election IS handled by the Constitution -

1. Should two or more candidates tie for the most votes, as many runoff elections shall be held as needed to resolve the election

-- Ravensfire
 
This part needs work...No citizen may run for the same office 3 consecutive terms.

Term 1 I run for office x lose.
Term 2 I run for same office and lose( or win).
Term 3 I cant run again for that office.

So Strider...by this example you shouldnt be allowed to run for President next term. Even if you dont win this time. That makes absolutely no sense. How about..You can not hold an office for more than 2 terms. Simple and to the point..no guessing what is meant.
 
robboo said:
This part needs work...No citizen may run for the same office 3 consecutive terms.

Term 1 I run for office x lose.
Term 2 I run for same office and lose( or win).
Term 3 I cant run again for that office.

So Strider...by this example you shouldnt be allowed to run for President next term. Even if you dont win this time. That makes absolutely no sense. How about..You can not hold an office for more than 2 terms. Simple and to the point..no guessing what is meant.

Yeah, it was meant to be "no one can hold," Changed/Fixed/Whatever. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Element K is redundent, this concept is already defined in Article C of the Constitution.

C.1.1 All decision making power within the Democracy Game is derived from the collective rights of all the citizens.
 
One other question...how will we handle term limits "between" governments. technically it will be a "new" government so would I be limited to not running for Ministry of Defense. Would you be limited to only one more term as president.

These types problems need to be addressd and dealt with now. Your CoL is OK for being government for starting a game but its not..its a new governemnt that will need a transistion period or guidelines in place.

Right now that is the only transistion issue I can think of but there might be more.
 
On absences, 3 days is still too short for an unannounced absence. Those of us who work or have families might legitimately be away from internet access for longer than 3 days, and some of our younger citizens could be grounded for that long. ;) Why not stick with a week like we've pretty much always had.

I saw a reference to "two turnchats" which is not a defined amount of time.

Please define exactly how long a term is. This is mostly to keep us in line with the constitution.

You caught on pretty well to the "defined in advance" part of the constitution definition of a term, aside from not having a crisp definition of it. Having the judiciary stay on an extra week is a great idea, hope it flies.

Don't forget that no DG poll can have stricter requirements for passage than a Constitutional Amendment. Amendments to the constitution do not say a certain number of people must vote, so I'd recommend leaving the census bit out, or hope you don't have a strict court when it goes for review and interpreting any future challenges. If by "majority of the house" you meant a majority of those voting, then this comment has no meaning, but I'm guessing you meant a majority of the census, which has the aforementioned conflict with the constitution.
 
Octavian, how is your progress on the grammer issue?
 
Here's what I've gotten through so far. Take time to comment on it, please. I hope to finish up tomorrow.

Change Log (minor wording/spelling issues excluded)

-Executive
*changed a bit of the beginning of the Executive Branch, and moved the Presidental duties to a new section.
*referred to all elected officers except governors and Prez. as 'Advisors' - for consistancy, changed 'Ministry of War' to an Office of War.
*specifically assigned Civic changes to Prez., as some offices could take certain changes to be vital to their interests (for example, the culture office could claim to be able to make a change to theocracy, as that prevents the spread of non-state religion, iirc)
*added to Culture the monitoring of Great People Points, as well as Great Prophets and Artists

On a seperate note, should the Research and Development Office be seperated? Both seem like two esoteric groups placed under on bunch...
*removed a bit about the Culture Office being in charge of 'formation of national boundries,' as it seemed to ambiguous (with a possible conflict over provincial boundries)
*fiddled with Section on DPs to be more specific.

-Legislative
*renamed to 'Assembly' and 'Senate.' Just a personal preference, and makes the prose write out a bit better...


Element A. The Government
The Government shall consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the nation.

Element B. The Executive Branch
The Executive Branch of Government shall consist of the Office of President, as well as the several Advisors. The Executive Branch, in general, is tasked with

Section 1. Office of the President
The President shall be the Head of State of the nation, as well as the leader of the Executive Branch of Government. Specifically, the President shall be responsible for coordinating the efforts his various Advisors. The President shall also be responsible for any duty not specifically assigned to any of the Advisors, including the management of the budget and of the slider, as well as Civic choices for the nation.

Section 2. Office of War
The foremost priority of the Office of War in both peacetime and war shall be the defense of the nation. The War Advisor shall be responsible for the management of all offensive and defensive units. The Advisor shall also be responsible for tactical and strategic planning during war. The Advisor may assign military units to the Office of Foreign Affairs as the Advisor shall see fit.

Section 3. Office of Culture
The Cultural Advisor shall be responsible for the movement of settlers, as well as planning for city placement. The Advisor shall also be charged with the formation of national boundaries and the monitoring of national culture levels. The Office of Culture shall also be tasked with placement of Wonders of all types, as well as overseeing the spread of religion, though the Cultural Advisor shall not initiate Civic changes. The Advisor shall also monitor Great People Points, and shall control all Great Artists and Great Prophets.

Section 4. Office of Foreign Affairs
The Foreign Affairs Advisor shall be charged with the negotiation of treaties, as well as all espionage-related activities. The Advisor shall also be responsible for all exploration activity, and therefore shall control all non-military scouting units (including Scouts, Explorers, Caravels, etc., and other units that may be assigned to the Office of Foreign Affairs by the Office of War as the War Advisor may see fit). The Advisor shall be responsible for all trading activity (including trading of technology and resources). The Advisor shall also control Great Merchants.

Section 5. Office of Research and Development
Research and Development Advisor shall control all worker units of the nation, and shall also direct technological research. The Advisor shall also control all Great Scientists and Great Engineers.

Section 6. The Office of the Censor
The Censor of the Assembly shall be tasked with validating polls, managing elections, and determining the census. Within two days of initially taking office, the Censor shall post Procedures for polling, which must define procedures for Initiative, Referendum, and Recall. Polls shall always be validated based on the Procedures in place when the poll was initially posted. The Censor shall also be responsible for polling the names of cities, units, geographic regions, as well as polling for the nation’s name and national symbols.

Section 7. Designated Players
The Designated Players shall be responsible for physically playing the saved game. Designated Players must first follow the posted current instructions and goals of a leader. Should no posted instruction exist, the Designated Player during his session may take guidance from polls. Should no such relevant polling data exist, the Designated Player may take guidance from discussion within the Democracy Game forum. Should no such relevant discussion exist, the Designated Player may take guidance from other citizens in the Democracy Game chatroom, should the session be online.

Section 8. The Governors
The Governors of the States shall be charged with the management and specialization of a single city or state. In cities assigned to that Governor, a Governor may specify certain A.I. specialization, or may individually place population to work certain tiles and hire specialists. The Governor may also set the build queues for all assigned cities.

Element C. The Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch shall consist of The Assembly and The Senate.

Section 1. The Assembly
The Assembly is formed by all Citizens of the nation. The total number of Citizens in the Assembly shall be determined by the Census. The Assembly shall be charged with the formation and passing of laws.
 
Wait... why did you change the governers to the Senate???? That would make all cities ruled by Senators?????

And i think they should all be Ministers, or some other name, because advisors implies that they simply advise and have to authority other than the authority of suggestion. Thats why it was changed in the first place i think?
 
Thanks for the work on this Octavian. I have a few points.

I agree with Swiss about 'Ministers' being a better term than 'Advisors'.

I also agree with Swiss about the term 'Senate'. However, on re-reading it, I wondered why the Governors are considered part of the Legislative branch at all? I obviously missed this when reading Strider's original. I don't think the Governors do legislating (at least, I consider legislating to be passing laws etc - living in England with our muddled constitution makes it hard to get a grip on these things :crazyeye: ) Shouldn't they be a part of the Executive - they execute power for their own cities/states?

I'm not terribly happy with the DP section. I assume by 'polls' you were referring to polls on the forums, not spot polls during the turnchat? If so, then good. My real concern, however, is that the current wording seems to give very wide licence for people to make things up as they go along at the TC. As we have already seen in this game, this can lead to very few instructions being posted and fewer comments from citizens cos they know less about what is happening.

At the moment, I can't think of a better way of phrasing it that doesn't completely paralyse the DP and makes TC of more than one turn impossible. Hopefully those with better ability to express themselves in English can help me out here.
 
DaveShack said:
On absences, 3 days is still too short for an unannounced absence. Those of us who work or have families might legitimately be away from internet access for longer than 3 days, and some of our younger citizens could be grounded for that long. ;) Why not stick with a week like we've pretty much always had.

Whoa, is this the same DaveShack who thinks four day polls are too long: :confused:
 
These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the game.

These branches are responsible for determining and implementing the desires of citizens regarding [civ4] game actions.

each of whom heads an office that is responsible for one major facet of the country

each of whom heads an office that is responsible for determining and implementing the desires of citizens regarding one major facet of the country. Office holders shall deterine the desires of citizens using the hierarchy outlined in the constitution. Office holders shall implement citizens desires through the posting or actual implementation of official instrucitons posted in the game play instruction thread.

Section 1. Ministry of War
The Ministry of War is charged with management of all offensive and defensive units. They are also given the duty of tatical planning during war and the strategic planning of war. During times of both peace and war, the Ministry of War is tasked with the management of the Nations Defense


The Minister of War is authorized to post game play instructions for all defensive and offensive units. The Minister of War is also expected to lead discussion and post official polls to develope tactical and strategic plans in times of both peace and war.

The other offices need similar work.

There is only a minimal attempt to even define citizen initiatives and referendums. This CoL only provides for one run-off election and does not deal with a second tie or tell us what happens in the office that remains unfilled until the run-off or run-offs are resolved.

The clause about DPs following instructions of leaders is enough by itself to cause me to vote this whole thing down. I will never vote for a law that allows instructions to be given in a turn chat.

At this point I have to ask what is the point of replacing the CoL we have with this one? It seems to me that everything is the same except there is no triumvirate. What major structural changes does this proposal make that requires us to totally trash the CoL we already have? If we pass this CoL then not only do we have to have to come up with some mechanism to transform from one government to another (where there really isn't much difference between the two) but we have to then go through the agonizing process of finding all the unexpected problems and loopholes in this document. The current CoL is not perfect but at least we've identified some key areas that need attention. We'd be much better off fixing what we have.
 
donsig said:

At this point I have to ask what is the point of replacing the CoL we have with this one? It seems to me that everything is the same except there is no triumvirate. What major structural changes does this proposal make that requires us to totally trash the CoL we already have? If we pass this CoL then not only do we have to have to come up with some mechanism to transform from one government to another (where there really isn't much difference between the two) but we have to then go through the agonizing process of finding all the unexpected problems and loopholes in this document. The current CoL is not perfect but at least we've identified some key areas that need attention. We'd be much better off fixing what we have.


I agree 100%. There is essentially no difference, just reorganization. Also have my concerns( in post #87 )been addressed...we could start off with a major loophole /JR.
 
donsig said:
At this point I have to ask what is the point of replacing the CoL we have with this one? It seems to me that everything is the same except there is no triumvirate. What major structural changes does this proposal make that requires us to totally trash the CoL we already have? If we pass this CoL then not only do we have to have to come up with some mechanism to transform from one government to another (where there really isn't much difference between the two) but we have to then go through the agonizing process of finding all the unexpected problems and loopholes in this document. The current CoL is not perfect but at least we've identified some key areas that need attention. We'd be much better off fixing what we have.

The current CoL did not pass the approval of the majority of citizens of this game. The only reason why it is in place is because by time it became known it was already to late to make any changes.

Because the current Code of Laws is, to put it simply, a piece of ****. It is way to complex on issues that can be handled in a single sentence, yet when it needs detail, it's lacking.

Because it was written with the sole purpose of allowing the leaders control game decisions, and not the citizens. It does not even mention that a leader should post a poll over a decision, much less force them to do so.

If you want to stick with the current CoL, than I suggest you get off your ass and start working on it, because I don't want to mess with it. One proposed change that only your really concerned about doesn't cut it.

If you want it done than you do it instead of telling me that I should do it.
 
donsig said:
Whoa, is this the same DaveShack who thinks four day polls are too long: :confused:

Having a poll end while someone is away is a minor inconvenience. Taking away that person's office is a major step, one we should only take if we're certain the official isn't coming back. If we're worried about lack of progress, let the deputy act when the official hasn't.
 
Strider said:
The current CoL did not pass the approval of the majority of citizens of this game. The only reason why it is in place is because by time it became known it was already to late to make any changes.

Your concept is correct, but the statement is false. If I may, here is the truth of what happened, so people who joined after that time may judge this effort against the current CoL fairly.

During the process of drafting the CoL we had several competing proposals. None of the proposals was complete, and there wasn't enough time to complete them all prior to starting. There were two polls on which proposal to focus on, first a three way poll, followed by a two way runoff poll.

Looking at events as we saw them at the time, the Triumvirate proposal "won" the runoff poll for which ruleset. It was then updated, with many of its opponents contributing to the update. The updated version won ratification by an overwhelming majority, even throwing away illegal votes.

After all of these events had finished, and an election was held, it was discovered that the first two polls to choose which CoL to focus on were fraudulent.

So, as ruled by the Judiciary in term 1, the people would have preferred a different CoL, but they did ratify the one we have -- and a subsequent vote came out that they preferred to stick with this one instead of starting over.

End result -- the people rejected this CoL twice, then they accepted it twice.

Now, the history lesson is done, time to move forward.

We're in the same state we were in December, except that this thread is for fine tuning a proposed alternative instead of an initial CoL. There are large chunks that many people are fine with, but there are some sections that have received suggestions (some very strongly worded) for improvements. One big difference that we need to remember is that we are not under time pressure.

Now, how does an amendment get passed? I'm not referring to the process, I'm referring to the politics. You get an amendment passed by fixing things that influential people find wrong with the draft, so that they support it. If the key 3-7 people support it (pulled numbers out of the air) then the people will support it and it will pass.

You're in charge of this draft. My advice is to decide which features you absolutely won't change, and make it clear that they're off limits. Alphawolf (aka he who must not be named :lol:) made it clear that changes to the Triumvirate proposal which deleted the Tri concept were simply not going to be accepted under any circumstances. Go ahead and allow changes to the things you aren't adament about, to get the approval of that small percentage of people who will lead the stampede either for or against your proposal. Don't argue with them, don't upset them, or they will shoot you down without blinking an eye, whether it's a good concept or not.

If you like a suggestion, put it in. If you don't like a suggestion, then reject it. Have a reason for your answer, either way it goes. This can be done in a week or so, if you stick with it. :D
 
Werent all the polls very close, ANd then we have the issue that Alphawolf voted more than once, (maybe 12 times). The Triumtive Goverement was never legally put forward
 
Here is the newest form of the Code of Laws proposal. I've taken Oct's re-formatted version (with a few modifictions). I've also added in turnchats and the turnchat instruction thread (which is disturbingly missing from the current CoL which is part of the reason why I forgot to do it in this proposal).

Other than that, I've added in "The Library" which is basically the Information Department under a differant name. Information Department has always sounded abit cheesy to me, so this is basically just a cosmetic change. I've also defined the purpose of Bureau's and Bureau Chiefs.

------------------

Element A. The Government
The Government shall consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the nation.

Element B. The Executive Branch
The Executive Branch of Government shall consist of the Office of President, as well as the several Advisors. These Advisors post discussions and polls over duties they are charged with as listed below.

Section 1. Office of the President
The President shall be the Head of State of the nation, as well as the leader of the Executive Branch of Government. Specifically, the President shall be responsible for coordinating the efforts his various Advisors. The President shall also be responsible for any duty not specifically assigned to any of the Advisors, including the management of the budget and of the slider, as well as Civic choices for the nation.

Section 2. Office of War
The foremost priority of the Office of War in both peacetime and war shall be the defense of the nation. The War Advisor shall be responsible for the management of all offensive and defensive units. The Advisor shall also be responsible for tactical and strategic planning during war. The Advisor may assign military units to the Office of Foreign Affairs as the Advisor shall see fit.

Section 3. Office of Culture
The Cultural Advisor shall be responsible for the movement of settlers, as well as planning for city placement. The Advisor shall also be charged with the formation of national boundaries and the monitoring of national culture levels. The Office of Culture shall also be tasked with placement of Wonders of all types, as well as overseeing the spread of religion, though the Cultural Advisor shall not initiate Civic changes. The Advisor shall also monitor Great People Points, and shall control all Great Artists and Great Prophets.

Section 4. Office of Foreign Affairs
The Foreign Affairs Advisor shall be charged with the negotiation of treaties, as well as all espionage-related activities. The Advisor shall also be responsible for all exploration activity, and therefore shall control all non-military scouting units (including Scouts, Explorers, Caravels, etc., and other units that may be assigned to the Office of Foreign Affairs by the Office of War as the War Advisor may see fit). The Advisor shall be responsible for all trading activity (including trading of technology and resources). The Advisor shall also control Great Merchants.

Section 5. Office of Research and Development
Research and Development Advisor shall control all worker units of the nation, and shall also direct technological research. The Advisor shall also control all Great Scientists and Great Engineers.

Section 6. The Office of the Censor
The Censor of the Assembly shall be tasked with validating polls, managing elections, and determining the census. Within two days of initially taking office, the Censor shall post Procedures for polling, which must define procedures for Initiative, Referendum, and Recall. Polls shall always be validated based on the Procedures in place when the poll was initially posted. The Censor shall also be responsible for polling the names of cities, units, geographic regions, as well as polling for the nation’s name and national symbols.

Section 7. Designated Players
The Designated Players shall be responsible for physically playing the saved game. Designated Players must first follow the posted current instructions and goals of a leader. Should no posted instruction exist, the Designated Player during his session may take guidance from polls. Should no such relevant polling data exist, the Designated Player may take guidance from discussion within the Democracy Game forum. Should no such relevant discussion exist, the Designated Player may take guidance from other citizens in the Democracy Game chatroom, should the session be online.

Section 8. The Governors
The Governors of the States shall be charged with the management and specialization of a single city or state. In cities assigned to that Governor, a Governor may specify certain A.I. specialization, or may individually place population to work certain tiles and hire specialists. The Governor may also set the build queues for all assigned cities.

Element C. The Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch shall consist of The Senate.

Section 1. The Senate
The Senate is formed by all Citizens of the nation. The total number of Citizens in the Assembly shall be determined by the Census. The Assembly shall be charged with the formation and passing of laws.

Element D. The Census and amending the Code of Laws
The average of the number of votes cast in each of the most recent contested elections shall constitute an active census of citizens. The highest vote total of these elections shall constitute a full census (the House). A simple majority of the house must be achieved for an amendment to pass. An amendment must pass a Judicial Review and be open for discussion for 72 hours before a poll may be posted. The poll must remain open for 48 hours.

Element E. The Election process
Elections shall decide who among the citizenry are trusted to manage the game. The President, the Advisors, Judiciary, Governors, and Designated Players are all elected. Each of these poistions, excepting the Judiciary, shall have a deputy chosen by the winning citizen. The Election process shall be made up of Nominations, Debates, and the Elections themselves. No citizen may hold the same office for 2 consecutive terms.

Section 1. Nominations and Debates
Nominations shall be posted atleast 8 days before the end of the term, debates will last through the duration of the nominations. Nominations will be closed when the election polls start.

Section 2. Election Polls
Election Polls shall be posted atleast 4 days before the end of the term, and will be set to run for 3 days (72 hours). The candidate with the highest number of votes at the end of the 3 days is considered the winner. If two candidates tie, then a run-off poll, lasting 2 days (48 hours) is posted with just those two canidates which will continue as needed. The election for designated players shall be multiple choice, and list all of the possible candidates. Any candidate that recieves over 50% of the vote is a designated player for that term.

Section 3. Judicial Terms
The Judiciary shall remain in power one week after the election of a new Judiciary. At this time, the newly elected Judiciary shall take over.

Element F. Vacant Poistions
An advisor or Justice may declare themselves to be Absent for a period of time. This period may not exceed 2 weeks. During this time, the deputy or pro-tem will act with all power and duties of that office, surrendering them to the official or Justice when they return or at the end of the planned absence, whichever comes first. If this period exceeds one week, then the deputy or pro-term may keep the power and duties of the office, unless they decide to give it up. Should an official fail to post in the DG forum for 3 days in a thread related to their area without prior notice, the Judiciary may declare that office Vacant.

Section 1. Filling Vacant Offices:
The President will appoint a citizen to any vacant office. The appointment is subject to a conformation poll, set to run for 3 days. If the Presidential seat is vacant then the Advisor of Foreign Affairs appoints a President.

Section 2. Judicial Absence's
If a Justice has not posted on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the remaining Justices may declare the Justice Vacant. If all three Justices fail to post on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the President may declare all Judicial offices Vacant, and immediately appoint a new Chief Justice. The remaining members of the Judiciary appoint a replacement for a vacant Justice.

Element G. Recall
Any citizen may request a recall for an elected official by posting a thread in the Citizens forum, citing the reasons for the recall. If two or more citizens support the recall, the Chief Justice must post a recall poll. The poll must run for 3 days, be private, and be set up in a Yes/No/Abstain. If 2/3 of the census votes to recall an official, then the official is removed from office, and the office becomes vacant. In the case of a Judicial recall, the President will handle the recall poll.

Element H. Referendum
A referendum is the submission of a proposed public measure or a decree to a direct popular vote, it is the second highest form of decision making. A referendum must comply with all polling procedures. Referendums are a direct result of an elected official carrying out their duties.

Element I. Initiative
An initiative is executive legislation created, proposed, and approved by the citizens. It is the highest form of decision making, and over-rides any other decisions, excempting a decision tasked to do so.

Section 1. Proposing an Initiative
Any citizen of the democracy game can propose an initiative. An initiative must receive atleast 3 days of discussions and two days of polling. Initiatives only hold power during the term they are approved, unless otherwise stated.

Element J. Sunset Clause
A sunset clause is an emergency legislative act. It must be discussed for 48 hours, and receive 24 hours of polling. A simple majority of the house is required to pass the clause. A sunset clause will automatically be removed at the end of the term it was passed in, or during a other pre-determined time. At this time changes made by the sunset clause will revert back to it's original state.

Element K. Turnchats
All irreversible game actions must progress during a scheduled game session called a turnchat. Reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline before the scheduled game session.

Section 1. Turnchat Instruction Thread
A Designated Player shall post a turnchat instruction thread 3 days before the scheduled turnchat. All executive advisors shall post instructions, based on citizen approval, in the instruction thread. These instructions are then used by the Designated Player to play the save. Advisors must post their instructions appro. 2 hours before the turnchat. The turnchat instruction thread is the only legal method of giving instructions to the designated player.

Element L. Liberare of Information
The Liberare or Library is a collection of game, save, and constitutional information. The Library is headed by a Director who is appointed by the President. The Director can then dictate additional tasks to Bureau Chiefs, who then take charge of a Bureau. The Library shall keep a record of all Bureau's and their purpose. The Director is charged with supplying save information at the citizens discretion.
 
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