Zarn
Le Républicain Catholique
Eklektikos said:
That argument is convincing enough for me.
Combining the FA and Trade office
- Thread starter ali
- Start date
That argument is convincing enough for me.
It's too much work for 1 official.
You could essentially argue that ALL departments have something to do with eachother.
Trade is about acquiring resources. You can do that with:
FA - Espionage to attempt a city flip.
Military - Invade the city.
Domestic - Found a new city.
Culture - Cultural Expansion.
For getting a domination victory:
FA - Trading for cities after a war is over.
Domestic - Founding new cities.
Trade - Trading for cities after a war is over.
Culture - Border expansion.
Getting Techs:
FA - Getting techs in MPP or other FA-related deals.
Science - Research, or espionage.
Trade - Trading for a tech.
Military - Popping goody huts.
Warfare:
Domestic - Builds the units (governor branch)
FA - Declares War
Trade - Trades for resources (support role)
Culture - Pushes for culture (could rush culture in DG1, 2) to prevent flipping.
You could essentially pile all advisors into 2 groups:
Internal Affairs - Science, Trade (connecting resources), Domestic, Culture.
External Affairs - Trade (gpt deals, etc.), Foriegn Affairs, Military.
If you could roll this up into 1, then it would be the DP. Then, what's the purpose of a demogame? It would be a bunch of people watching the game progress. One of the origanal purposes of the demogame was to simulate the Civ3 (and 2) Advisors and the citizens in a Game of Democracy. That means ALL advisors, too. The point is, there's just too many things in Civ3 that are intertwined. If you look at a tile, it has commerce (trade, science), food (domestic), and shields (military, governor build queues). It's impossible to merge, or seperate one or more groups and say, "they can only do this". A trade deal might rely on a peace renegotiation treaty, which could allow governors to build XYZ improvement, and maybe allow culture to discuss building a new wonder.
Let's look at the workload for each advisor (based on a non-pangaea game).
Early game: (Ancient to Early Medieval)
Domestic - High workload. Many cities are founded here.
Trade - Little workload. Not much to do except for trading a few techs around.
Foriegn Affairs - Little workload. The AI doesn't start wars too much in the ancient era (maybe 1 ancient war in the entire game).
Science - Moderate. Stays this way the entire game. May be a bit predictable once the AI research path is known.
Military - Little to Moderate. Depending on the warmongeringness of the people, there could be 0 to 3 wars in the ancient era.
Culture - Moderate Workload. Although it depends on the permissions of the department (In DG1 and 2, culture could culture rush culture in cities that didn't have all 21 tiles). Early on, there can plenty of cultural improvements to build.
Mid-game: Early Medival to Industrial
Domestic - Medium workload. There might still be some cities to found. An uninhabited island may be such an example.
Trade - Moderate to Heavy workload. This is when the AI starts building harbors, and has the techs to actually trade.
Foriegn Affairs - Moderate to Heavy workload. At this time, most of the civs are known.
Science - Moderate. Stays this way the entire game. May be a bit predictable once the AI research path is known.
Military - Little to Heavy. Again, depends on the WOTP. Although, with knights and cavs, mobility goes a long way. It also depends on the difficulty level, and AI agressiveness.
Culture - Heavy Workload. Again, depends on the permissions of the department. There's plenty of improvements and wonders to be built, even some left over from the ancient era.
Late Game: Industrial-Future Era
Domestic - None to Light Workload. Most terrain is taken at this point. If the goal is histographic, the total score would be something to look at too.
Trade - Little to Heavy workload. Depending on the bloodlust level of the world, there may or may not be as many civs to trade with. Late into the game, trade only comes down to resources and luxuries.
Foriegn Affairs - Some to Moderate Workload. There still may be wars to be declared, espionage to do, etc.
Science - Moderate to Little. Stays this way the entire game. May be a bit predictable once the AI research path is known. By the end of the game (future era), science has nothing to do.
Military - Little to Moderate. If you're at this stage of the game, and most civs are still around, heavy warmongering may not be possible (MPPs, and civs can build much quicker). There may still be some warfare, but not as much as civs start to dwindle.
Culture - Light, but important workload. Most wonders at this point are usually pointless, as the game is almost won. However, an important aspect is to look at the culture levels of the AI.
Here's a thought I just had as an experiment for next game. Let each department be able to authorize a rush for their type of improvement, sort of like culture authorize an emergency rush of culture after a city was captured in DG1 and 2.
These would follow the civ traits of the buildings. (with the exception of culture and science, which would split up).
i.e.
Trade - Markets, Banks, Harbors (allows water trade), Airports (allows air trade).
Culture - Temple, Cathedral
Science - Library, University, Research Lab
Domestic - Granary, Harbor, Factory, (any one of 4 'plants'), Mfg. Plant, Offshore Platform
Military - Barracks, Airports, Harbor (overlaps due to it allows vet ships)
Foreign Affairs - ...
EDIT: One more point to make. Even back in DG1, Trade and Foreign Affairs communicated a LOT when making deals. This is what this game is about. Cooperation, not Division.
You could essentially argue that ALL departments have something to do with eachother.
Trade is about acquiring resources. You can do that with:
FA - Espionage to attempt a city flip.
Military - Invade the city.
Domestic - Found a new city.
Culture - Cultural Expansion.
For getting a domination victory:
FA - Trading for cities after a war is over.
Domestic - Founding new cities.
Trade - Trading for cities after a war is over.
Culture - Border expansion.
Getting Techs:
FA - Getting techs in MPP or other FA-related deals.
Science - Research, or espionage.
Trade - Trading for a tech.
Military - Popping goody huts.
Warfare:
Domestic - Builds the units (governor branch)
FA - Declares War
Trade - Trades for resources (support role)
Culture - Pushes for culture (could rush culture in DG1, 2) to prevent flipping.
You could essentially pile all advisors into 2 groups:
Internal Affairs - Science, Trade (connecting resources), Domestic, Culture.
External Affairs - Trade (gpt deals, etc.), Foriegn Affairs, Military.
If you could roll this up into 1, then it would be the DP. Then, what's the purpose of a demogame? It would be a bunch of people watching the game progress. One of the origanal purposes of the demogame was to simulate the Civ3 (and 2) Advisors and the citizens in a Game of Democracy. That means ALL advisors, too. The point is, there's just too many things in Civ3 that are intertwined. If you look at a tile, it has commerce (trade, science), food (domestic), and shields (military, governor build queues). It's impossible to merge, or seperate one or more groups and say, "they can only do this". A trade deal might rely on a peace renegotiation treaty, which could allow governors to build XYZ improvement, and maybe allow culture to discuss building a new wonder.
Let's look at the workload for each advisor (based on a non-pangaea game).
Early game: (Ancient to Early Medieval)
Domestic - High workload. Many cities are founded here.
Trade - Little workload. Not much to do except for trading a few techs around.
Foriegn Affairs - Little workload. The AI doesn't start wars too much in the ancient era (maybe 1 ancient war in the entire game).
Science - Moderate. Stays this way the entire game. May be a bit predictable once the AI research path is known.
Military - Little to Moderate. Depending on the warmongeringness of the people, there could be 0 to 3 wars in the ancient era.
Culture - Moderate Workload. Although it depends on the permissions of the department (In DG1 and 2, culture could culture rush culture in cities that didn't have all 21 tiles). Early on, there can plenty of cultural improvements to build.
Mid-game: Early Medival to Industrial
Domestic - Medium workload. There might still be some cities to found. An uninhabited island may be such an example.
Trade - Moderate to Heavy workload. This is when the AI starts building harbors, and has the techs to actually trade.
Foriegn Affairs - Moderate to Heavy workload. At this time, most of the civs are known.
Science - Moderate. Stays this way the entire game. May be a bit predictable once the AI research path is known.
Military - Little to Heavy. Again, depends on the WOTP. Although, with knights and cavs, mobility goes a long way. It also depends on the difficulty level, and AI agressiveness.
Culture - Heavy Workload. Again, depends on the permissions of the department. There's plenty of improvements and wonders to be built, even some left over from the ancient era.
Late Game: Industrial-Future Era
Domestic - None to Light Workload. Most terrain is taken at this point. If the goal is histographic, the total score would be something to look at too.
Trade - Little to Heavy workload. Depending on the bloodlust level of the world, there may or may not be as many civs to trade with. Late into the game, trade only comes down to resources and luxuries.
Foriegn Affairs - Some to Moderate Workload. There still may be wars to be declared, espionage to do, etc.
Science - Moderate to Little. Stays this way the entire game. May be a bit predictable once the AI research path is known. By the end of the game (future era), science has nothing to do.
Military - Little to Moderate. If you're at this stage of the game, and most civs are still around, heavy warmongering may not be possible (MPPs, and civs can build much quicker). There may still be some warfare, but not as much as civs start to dwindle.
Culture - Light, but important workload. Most wonders at this point are usually pointless, as the game is almost won. However, an important aspect is to look at the culture levels of the AI.
Here's a thought I just had as an experiment for next game. Let each department be able to authorize a rush for their type of improvement, sort of like culture authorize an emergency rush of culture after a city was captured in DG1 and 2.
These would follow the civ traits of the buildings. (with the exception of culture and science, which would split up).
i.e.
Trade - Markets, Banks, Harbors (allows water trade), Airports (allows air trade).
Culture - Temple, Cathedral
Science - Library, University, Research Lab
Domestic - Granary, Harbor, Factory, (any one of 4 'plants'), Mfg. Plant, Offshore Platform
Military - Barracks, Airports, Harbor (overlaps due to it allows vet ships)
Foreign Affairs - ...
EDIT: One more point to make. Even back in DG1, Trade and Foreign Affairs communicated a LOT when making deals. This is what this game is about. Cooperation, not Division.
