Coming out of the Christian Closet

[classical_hero]

Fortunately I have never had to be in this situation. I have remained faithful to the Church that I attend ever since my mum first brought me to Church. So this is a foreign situation to me. Although my Dad is an atheist so things are not always as they seem. Basically what you should do is be as considerate to their beliefs as much as is possible. It is better for your parents to be respecting your decision rather than resenting your decision. Just keep that in mind when you do tell them.

 

[HannibalBarka]

hemmmmmmmmmmmm, just tell your parents that Einstein wasn't Christian, Problem solved ;-)

 

[Mathilda]

Regarding MobBoss's advise to talk to your pastor.
His reaction is a good example of a parental reaction: "Think about it properly."
Which in many cases actually means: "I, as a parent, need time to adjust to this idea, I need to think about this. Telling you to still think about it gives me hope that this isn't your final decision. This hope gives me time to come to terms with this idea. I have trouble accepting that you are only telling me after you've already made up your mind."

So just as a thought, tell your parents before talking to the pastor, so that you can be seen to think about it and take it seriously.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Caveat emptor an all that, but . . .

In this case the honest thing to do is tell your parents. Not just to save yourself an hour on Sundays - that is minor - but because it is better not to live a lie. But first try to find out how your parents will react. Maybe you could ask them how they would react, hypothetically, if you were gay, or something. Because it definitely varies from parent to parent.

Heck my own parents have reacted differently. When my mom and several of my siblings left our church for another, my dad was not happy about it but he supported it. When my sister went from my mom's church to my dad and my church, my mom wouldn't speak to her on Sunday mornings for a year. So try to find out.

And let them know that it is your decision, but at the same time if they hope that you will come back, don't argue about it. If they want to talk to you about your doubts, listen to them. There is even a (very small) chance that they will explain things to your satisfaction, even if you don't think so now. Just talk openly and honestly about why they believe and you don't. And try to assure them that you will still be a good person (assuming you are now, of course).

And CivGeneral, if you think people object to converting to Catholicism, you should here what happens to Mormon converts. I know plenty that were kicked out of their houses, and some parents who said they wouldn't mind seeing their kids believe anything, or nothing, instead of Mormonism.

 

[GenMarshall]

And CivGeneral, if you think people object to converting to Catholicism, you should here what happens to Mormon converts. I know plenty that were kicked out of their houses, and some parents who said they wouldn't mind seeing their kids believe anything, or nothing, instead of Mormonism.

Most of the time I hear people from evangical diehard Protestant households objecting their children converting to Catholicism. Anyway, Why do parents kick out their children who converted to Mormonism?

 

[IglooDame]

Regarding MobBoss's advise to talk to your pastor.
His reaction is a good example of a parental reaction: "Think about it properly."
Which in many cases actually means: "I, as a parent, need time to adjust to this idea, I need to think about this. Telling you to still think about it gives me hope that this isn't your final decision. This hope gives me time to come to terms with this idea. I have trouble accepting that you are only telling me after you've already made up your mind."

So just as a thought, tell your parents before talking to the pastor, so that you can be seen to think about it and take it seriously.

Good point.

I was raised Catholic (my mother Catholic and my father Presbyterian) and went to church dutifully every weekend, though growing steadily more disillusioned with it. Then when I graduated high school I left for college 300 miles away and have rarely been to church since, generally only when I visit my dad or my wife (Evangelical) goes.

My father still gently needles me to go "more regularly" (being 36, married, and living 200 miles away, I won't tolerate more than that). In a way I regret not confronting him about it long ago, but he and my mom did so much for me growing up that if it makes him happy thinking I'm a few Sundays away from redemption, so be it.

So, my advice would be - keep going to service. Perhaps seek some priestly advice (many of them have a lot of good advice available, if you set aside what would in this case be an obvious bias). Let your parents know that you have questions about faith, God, etc., but don't make any absolutes about it until you're 18, at which point if you want to state that you're absolutely agnostic, have at it.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Most of the time I hear people from evangical diehard Protestant households objecting their children converting to Catholicism. Anyway, Why do parents kick out their children who converted to Mormonism?

There are still an awful lot of people who have a negative view of Mormonism in general. Some churches will preach against us and the flock will believe what the pastor says even though it's false. (I'm guessing the pastors are afraid of competition). When a Catholic converts to Mormonism, doctrine isn't a problem but the objection may be simply that they are abandoning a family tradition. I have met Catholics (and a few others from other sects, but mostly Catholics) who can give no better reason for being Catholic than, "I was born in the church" but who would disown a child for joining another religion.

 

[GenMarshall]

When a Catholic converts to Mormonism, doctrine isn't a problem but the objection may be simply that they are abandoning a family tradition. I have met Catholics (and a few others from other sects, but mostly Catholics) who can give no better reason for being Catholic than, "I was born in the church" but who would disown a child for joining another religion.

I feel that if my future child converts to a different religion or deconverts to agnosticism or atheism. I feel that they are abandoning a family tradition and also making the same mistake that I did when I fell out of the church and never recived any of the sacraments of initiation (Confirmation & First Communion). One of my reasons for being Catholic is that I was baptized into the Catholic church as an infant and that I want to return to the church to also get back in touch with my faith that I had abandoned years ago as a young child. Another reason why I am Catholic is that stability as well as traditions that are found in the Church is what attracts me as well as the truths the Church holds (IMO) as well as infuences from dating Catholic women as well as having a few Catholic friends in this area (I live in a state where Roman Catholicism is the predominate religion).

For me, I woul feel realy upset and disapointed at my future child for converting into another religion or deconvert into atheism or agnosticism because I feel that they are abandoning a religion that has been going strong for generations in my family. To me, I feel that apostasy is a giant slap on the face of a parent. If one of my future children commited apostasy, I would disown him/her since they have insulted the Church and Myself. I will also be worried for the sakes of the soul of my apostate child (Since Apostasy is an excommunicatable Latæ Sententiæ offense in the Catholic Church) Though this is my opinion right now but it may change years down the road.

 

[ironduck]

For me, I woul feel realy upset and disapointed at my future child for converting into another religion or deconvert into atheism or agnosticism because I feel that they are abandoning a religion that has been going strong for generations in my family. To me, I feel that apostasy is a giant slap on the face of a parent. If one of my future children commited apostasy, I would disown him/her since they have insulted the Church and Myself. I will also be worried for the sakes of the soul of my apostate child (Since Apostasy is an excommunicatable Latæ Sententiæ offense in the Catholic Church) Though this is my opinion right now but it may change years down the road.

You have got to be kidding.

First of all, how can you possibly disown your child for having a different view on the world than you do? It's your child for crying out loud! That's truly disturbing.

Secondly, I find it disturbing that people force their children into religion before they're old enough to decide for themselves what they believe. Who says you are right? Would you want your parents to have forced you into Norse mythology when you were a child? And would you think it was fair of your parents if they disowned you for leaving that religion?

Oh boy.

 

[El_Machinae]

If one of my future children commited apostasy, I would disown him/her since they have insulted the Church and Myself

Would this be a good reason to not have children? Because the % chance of having a child who will become Apostate is pretty high. I think having a 30% chance of creating someone who will go to hell would be a good deterrent.

 

[Atropos]

If one of my future children commited apostasy, I would disown him/her since they have insulted the Church and Myself.

I find it amusing that the injury to your sweet self ranks with concern over your child's soul. I can only hope that the capital M was a typo.

For your worries about your child's damnation I have some respect, but do you really expect your child to choose his/her religion based on not insulting you?

 

[GenMarshall]

First of all, how can you possibly disown your child for having a different view on the world than you do? It's your child for crying out loud! That's truly disturbing.

If that child wants to be an apostate, then that child is no son/daugher of mine. That apostate child would just be another heathen who has tossed his salvation away.

Secondly, I find it disturbing that people force their children into religion before they're old enough to decide for themselves what they believe. Who says you are right? Would you want your parents to have forced you into Norse mythology when you were a child? And would you think it was fair of your parents if they disowned you for leaving that religion?

I actualy dont find it disturbing that people "force their children" into religion. Its an obligation that many married Catholic Couples (as well as married Catholic+non-Catholic couples) have that they should raise their children to be Catholic, they make a promise to the Church to raise their children to be Catholic. Who says that I am right? Mainly I believe that the Catholic Church is a true religion.

I would not want my parents to force me into some Paganism religion such as Norse or Greek mythology. But I would accept it anyway because I do not want to rebel against my parents and avoid any entangelments against them (Though I was resistant at the time when my parents tried to force me into a church when I was an agnostic and not ready). I dont see it as fair that parents have to disown their children, but if they need to be stern about their children following their faith, then they should disown them if the child wont conform to the family's religion.

 

[ironduck]

If that child wants to be an apostate, then that child is no son/daugher of mine. That apostate child would just be another heathen who has tossed his salvation away.

By creating a child you create a human being that is dependent upon you. Until that human being is able to support itself you have a moral obligation to protect it. Do you disagree?

Also, do you view people who do not view christianity as correct simply as 'heathens'? What happened to your views of other people simply as human beings? Are people now somehow not worth as much if they do not agree with your religious beliefs? Is that what Jesus taught you? Sounds more like Inqvisitor.

I would not want my parents to force me into some Paganism religion such as Norse or Greek mythology. But I would accept it anyway because I do not want to rebel against my parents and avoid any entangelments against them (Though I was resistant at the time when my parents tried to force me into a church when I was an agnostic and not ready). I dont see it as fair that parents have to disown their children, but if they need to be stern about their children following their faith, then they should disown them if the child wont conform to the family's religion.

So you don't think it's fair that parents disown their children and yet you advocate it? So you advocate unfairness willingly?

Also, if you had been raised with Norse mythology does that mean you would not change into catholicism so as to avoid rebelling against your parents?

Colour me puzzled.

 

[Xanikk999]

If that child wants to be an apostate, then that child is no son/daugher of mine. That apostate child would just be another heathen who has tossed his salvation away.


I actualy dont find it disturbing that people "force their children" into religion. Its an obligation that many married Catholic Couples (as well as married Catholic+non-Catholic couples) have that they should raise their children to be Catholic, they make a promise to the Church to raise their children to be Catholic. Who says that I am right? Mainly I believe that the Catholic Church is a true religion.

I would not want my parents to force me into some Paganism religion such as Norse or Greek mythology. But I would accept it anyway because I do not want to rebel against my parents and avoid any entangelments against them (Though I was resistant at the time when my parents tried to force me into a church when I was an agnostic and not ready). I dont see it as fair that parents have to disown their children, but if they need to be stern about their children following their faith, then they should disown them if the child
wont conform to the family's religion.

I thought you were more tolerent. This is very depressing to hear from you.

 

[jonatas]

if you think people object to converting to Catholicism, you should here what happens to Mormon converts. I know plenty that were kicked out of their houses, and some parents who said they wouldn't mind seeing their kids believe anything, or nothing, instead of Mormonism.

Don't be such a martyr. I'm sure there are lots of kids brought up by Mormon parents who get put through hell for not wanting to be their parents' religion.

@Civgeneral
You've got to be joking.

 

[warpus]

If one of my future children commited apostasy, I would disown him/her since they have insulted the Church and Myself.

Is disowning your children for any reason a Christian thing to do?

 

[GoldEagle]

A Catholic and an Evangelical? Dinner conversations must be hella fun.

Yes, very interesting indeed.

Mom: You know Catholicism is all lies, right?
Dad: *brushes it off*
Mom: You know all of the laws are man made, right?
Dad: Well, no really all of them
Mom: You know the wafer isn't really Jesus, right?
Dad: Well, yes...

My dad usually just goes along with what my mom says. It's still quite funny.


@Warpus-Very good point.

 

[Atropos]

Is disowning your children for any reason a Christian thing to do?

Come to think of it, isn't breaking off ties with anyone an un-Christian thing to do? Aren't you supposed to try to convert them from their sinful ways?

 

[MrCynical]

I would disown him/her since they have insulted the Church and Myself. I will also be worried for the sakes of the soul of my apostate child (Since Apostasy is an excommunicatable Latæ Sententiæ offense in the Catholic Church) Though this is my opinion right now but it may change years down the road.

If that child wants to be an apostate, then that child is no son/daugher of mine. That apostate child would just be another heathen who has tossed his salvation away.

I too will chime as a person who is depressed, and to a significant extent disgusted by this attitude. A religion is a deeply personal matter for someone to make decisions about, and it is the height of arrogance for a parent to force a child into a religion. A person has to consider what they truly believe, and you have no right as a parent to force a child to accept your beliefs. You can introduce the child to them, teach the child about them, but you have no right to insist the child accepts them. (It is incidentally for this reason that I place no value whatever on infant baptism. This is a sop to the parent's faith, not the child's, since the child has no input or ability to register its beliefs).

(Though I was resistant at the time when my parents tried to force me into a church when I was an agnostic and not ready).

So why is it any different that someone should be forced into Chistian habits that they have no belief in? An agnostic meaninglessly (and resentfully) going through the motions of Christianity at a parent's behest would seem more offensive to God in my opinion than someone who withdraws from such ceremonies completely.

I dont see it as fair that parents have to disown their children, but if they need to be stern about their children following their faith, then they should disown them if the child wont conform to the family's religion.

To force someone to "conform" to the family's religion if they have no genuine beliefs in it is a despicable act, and would be regarded as such by any morally superior being. An empty and resentful charade of a religion is far worse than none at all.

Everyone has to take their own path on their religious beliefs, and that is not always going to match that of their parents. You yourself admit you went through an agnostic phase where you resisted your parents efforts to conform you to their faith, and yet you seem to feel it is your duty to repeat their error. I would not attempt to force any child of mine to adopt my religious beliefs, and would certainly not disown them for adopting an atheist or agnostic path. One thing I would consider disowning a child for though would be if they had the unspeakable arrogance to insist that not only are their beliefs the only right ones, but that they have the right and indeed duty to force those beliefs onto others.

I actualy dont find it disturbing that people "force their children" into religion. Its an obligation that many married Catholic Couples (as well as married Catholic+non-Catholic couples) have that they should raise their children to be Catholic, they make a promise to the Church to raise their children to be Catholic. Who says that I am right? Mainly I believe that the Catholic Church is a true religion.

You have the right to believe whatever you like about the Catholic religion. You have the right to teach your children about it. You do not have the right to indoctrinate (there is a very fine distinction here) or force a child into the Catholic church.

There is also the final point I come back to. An agnostic has not even denied the existence of a God, and yet you feel they are an apostate (deliberately perjorative term) heathen who will burn in hell for all eternity (If you like I'll explain why no being of acceptable morality could decide to burn someone in hell for all eternity, especially for their beliefs). To quote a certain game that quotes a certain person "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with intellect and wisdom intended us to forgo their use". For true belief of any kind a religion must be considered deeply, and if that requires an agnostic, or even an atheist phase I see no reason why a God should object. Someone who has carefully looked at their faith, and discarded all those aspects which are morally objectionable or of no real meaning I would think would be counted as a far truer worshipper than some 'yesman' who merely accepts what their parents tell them is right. Also if someone feels that what humans have made Christianity into is not the appropriate religion to follow, why should they follow it? Only your own arrogance in asserting that you are the only true religion. I personally would think that any God worthy of such worship would put little score on ceremony, and only place value on true beliefs. The formalities of the Catholic Church, religious ceremony, and and similar human trivia is of less than no value without true belief, and in my humble opinion of little value even with it.

And there you have in detail why your attitude disgusts me, and why I think it would disgust even the God of the Catholic Church you are so intent on forcing your child into, at least if that being is of such moral excellence as to be worthy of the worship you insist your child gives Him.

 

[Mathilda]

@ CivGeneral - I thought we'd been over this issue before and you'd come to the conclusion after some soul searching that you wouldn't disown your child.
What's happened since?