Commander Chiang Kai Sheck of Taiwan (3d - anim - era)

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Now that is just plain wrong- Chiang Kai-shek didn't assume power of the KMT until 1926 (of the Nanking Government not even until several years later*), one year after the death of his predecessor, Dr. Sun . The Republic of China was founded in 1912 by Sung Chiao-jen and Dr. Sun Yat-sen. The KMT was formed from a collection several revolutionary groups.

"The party gained a majority in the first National Assembly, but in 1913 Yuan Shikai, who was President dissolved the body, had Sung assassinated, and ordered the Kuomintang suppressed. Sun re-established the KMT in the form of a secret society while exiled in Japan in 1914 and returned in 1918 to establish a rival government at Guangzhou.

In 1923, the KMT and its government accepted aid from the Soviet Union after being denied recognition by the western powers. "

This clearly explains that the Republic of China was NOT the KMT, but that in fact the KMT was fighting against the ruling Chinese Republican government under President Yuan Shikai. The Kuomintang would have fought the "WWI Chinese" unit.

*

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Now that is just plain wrong- Chiang Kai-shek didn't assume power of the KMT until 1926 (of the Nanking Government not even until several years later*), one year after the death of his predecessor, Dr. Sun . The Republic of China was founded in 1912 by Sung Chiao-jen and Dr. Sun Yat-sen. The KMT was formed from a collection several revolutionary groups.

"The party gained a majority in the first National Assembly, but in 1913 Yuan Shikai, who was President dissolved the body, had Sung assassinated, and ordered the Kuomintang suppressed. Sun re-established the KMT in the form of a secret society while exiled in Japan in 1914 and returned in 1918 to establish a rival government at Guangzhou.

In 1923, the KMT and its government accepted aid from the Soviet Union after being denied recognition by the western powers. "

This clearly explains that the Republic of China was NOT the KMT, but that in fact the KMT was fighting against the ruling Chinese Republican government under President Yuan Shikai. The Kuomintang would have fought the "WWI Chinese" unit.

You're right. My mistake.

However, you must have read my message wrong. I did mention that Jiang Jieshi did not reign until later. I didn't say that he reigned from the start. And Sun Zhongshan did re-establish the KMT in during the period of WWI and soldiers under the Guomindang did have similar uniforms to the one that BeBro used for his unit. The name "Republic of China" was also appropriated by the Guomindang to refer to their government. The name "Republic of China" seems to be one that's constantly used and abused.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

You're right. My mistake.

However, you must have read my message wrong. I did mention that Jiang Jieshi did not reign until later. I didn't say that he reigned from the start. And Sun Zhongshan did re-establish the KMT in during the period of WWI and soldiers under the Guomindang did have similar uniforms to the one that BeBro used for his unit. The name "Republic of China" was also appropriated by the Guomindang to refer to their government. The name "Republic of China" seems to be one that's constantly used and abused.

LoL - names can't defend themselves yep, its confusing- and hard to find proper pictures of other Chinese Forces of that time (after all Mao won). I used to have the link to a pretty good foto of Kuomintang soldiers but lost it in the Net somewhere. One featured Kuomintang entering a village (on mule back) and the other one was a colour shot of a kuomintang guarding a fighter of the "Flying Tigers". Hmm, I guess I'll search for it yet again...

 

[superisis]

I think having Mao as the leader of China is like having Hitler as the leader of Germany.

or having Genghis Khan as the leader of the mong... hey WAIT A MINUTE!

, personally I wish the leader of Russia would be Stalin.

Nice leaderhead civArmy: but could you motivate you best/shunned gov choice?

and also, isn't the Taiwanese name for Taiwan still the Republic of China?

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

found a similar one in b&w: should look a bit like this


Click for LARGE view
Kuomintang Troops

 

[Bluemofia]

the thing is, Taiwan isn't an official country, because some countries believe it is still part of china.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

could you motivate you best/shunned gov choice?

Errm, pardon ?

isn't the Taiwanese name for Taiwan still the Republic of China?

It would almost seem so- however Taiwan has not been recogniced as souvereign state by most other governments and similarly not recognized by the UN as an independent, souvereign and legitimate state... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Republic_of_China

For the political entity commonly known as "Taiwan," see Republic of China.

The island of Taiwan (Traditional: 臺灣, Simplified: 台湾, Pinyin: Táiwān, Wade-Giles: T'ai-wan, Taiwanese: Tâi-oân) is located off the coast of mainland China in the Pacific Ocean. It is also known by its Portuguese name Ilha Formosa, which means "beautiful island."

 

[CivArmy s. 1994]

or having Genghis Khan as the leader of the mong... hey WAIT A MINUTE!

, personally I wish the leader of Russia would be Stalin.

Nice leaderhead civArmy: but could you motivate you best/shunned gov choice?

and also, isn't the Taiwanese name for Taiwan still the Republic of China?

Friends, we can't turn it a political thread
I choice these governments for suggestions that I received and for what I know about the Taiwan, but I think I have would choice the shunned government "Communism", because the island turned independent fighting against the communist revolution in China. I choice "Despotism", cos the island was not too advanced in the time just despotist tribes inhabitated Taiwan. BTW, it is easy to do the alteration, use the Editor that cames with your Civ3

--------------------

For all the other posts, thanks for the new informations about China and Taiwan!

 

[ckn]

very nice idea. but i would like to remind you guys that Chang Kai-shek might not be the best leader for a 'Taiwanese' race; obviously he considered Taiwan as part of China (yes, it might sound odd to foreigners but that is the case) he is known to have suppressed in horrific fashion 'natives' of Taiwan and 'separatists'. having retreated to the island in 1949, his major ambition, which never materialised of course, was to reunite china by launching an invasion of the mainland from the island...

if such a leader is needed, i suggest Lee Teng-hui, who is now recognised by some as the national father of taiwan.

 

[ckn]

and pardon me for my ignorance, but i have never heard of this 'kou min tang' unit... (incidentally Chiang's the head of Goumindang.)

you may consider Chiang's 'blue shirts' as UU, a fascist imitation...

 

[CivArmy s. 1994]

Ckn, it was not me who choice this leader and I don't know so much about the history of Taiwan. I think it was done by other poster from Taiwan (I think u r from this nation for what u wrote). BTW, If u want, u can rename the leader name in your Editor, it is easy to be done Call me if u need help.
And thanks for the aditional information about the country

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

@Ckn: Hereby intended, Kuomintang is not a unit, neither "race" nor civ (in the widest sense of the word) but merely the name of the Party. Hence a kuomintang unit would be a party activist- in our case a soldier that would have served in the KMT army under Chiang. I don't really understand why you would take Lee as a Leaderhead- after all he only became president in 1988, that being almost 40 years after the retreat of the KMT to Taiwan, incidentaly as well as more than 60 after Chiang began his armed struggle, and over three quarters of a century after KMT was founded in 1912. Similarly John Major the Leaderhead for representing the British Empire.

"The Kuomintang (KMT) or Nationalist Party of China (Traditional Chinese: 中國國民黨 Hanyu Pinyin: Zhōngguó Guómíndǎng; Wade-Giles: Chung-kuo Kuo-min-tang; Tongyong Pinyin: Jhongguo Guomindang; literally the National People's Party of China) is a conservative political party currently active in the Republic of China (ROC) on Taiwan. Together with the People First Party, it forms what is popularly known as the pan-blue coalition, which is less hostile to the idea of Chinese reunification than the pan-green coalition, which leans towards Taiwan independence.

Organized shortly after the Xinhai Revolution, which overthrew the Qing Dynasty in China, the KMT fought the Beiyang warlords and the Communist Party of China for control of the country before its retreat to Taiwan in 1949. There, it controlled the government until 2000. Thus the ROC was once referred to synonymously with the KMT and known simply as "Nationalist China" after its ruling party."

Wikipedia: Kuomintang

 

[ckn]

winter and civarmy i must concede that you argument is very valid.

the army serving under chang is known as the Nationalist Army. KMT (or GMD) is a political party, not a unit. I mean, this game is really not about chronological accuracy - the whole design is a mess of anachronism, as you would probably agree. Taiwanese nationalism is, as with other forms of nationalism, a modern event. These leaderheads are really abusing time at their absolute advantage... oh well.

I am obliged to stress that KMT does not represent Taiwanese nationalism. One may take note of the fact that the party (and incidentally the army as well) still believes in national unification and that would mean mainland china + china + mongolia (dont be surprised). (it is admitted that Lee was KMT leader, he is considered a 'spy', as it were.)

all in all, chang is the sworn enemy of Taiwan nationalists... that is why i am mentioning this at all.

 

[ckn]

mainland china + taiwan + mongolia sorry for typo

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

mainland china + taiwan + mongolia sorry for typo

Ah yes, very true- I forgot that the Government in Taipei still regards Mongolia as Chinese territory