Communism and Fascism hurry methods

[Raider]

What do you guys think about changing Communism and Fascism hurry methods to paying citizens? It seems strange to me that under such advanced governments the only way of hurrying is by killing your populace. I have been in some games where I was making over 3k per turn under Communism and was unable to hurry anything.

Additionally, from the historical perspective, under those government hurrying was achieved by overfinancuing something. The only difference was that it was the dictator that decided what is to be financed rather than private companies or a government committee.

From balance stand perspective, I think this would be fair too, especially seeing that once you make a few nuclear plants you cannot switch goverments without them melting down. Also under those governments, your income should be lower than under Republic and Democracy of similar size, so hurrying would be more difficult.

So what do you guys think of changing Communism and Fascism to pay citizens hurry methods, while leaving Despotism as forced labor hurry methods?

 

[tR1cKy]

I fear that such a modification will unbalance things. Communism would simply become too powerful. It would probably the best government even in peace time.

But i agree with you that the forced labor method is quite annoying. In the Industrial Era, things often cost too much to be reasonably hurried by that method. Losing 3/4 pops each time you hurry something will result, in the long run, into the collapse of your civ. And in the modern era, it's better to draft a mech infantry then disband it, rather than poprushing.
Sadly, there is no easy solution for the problem. Let's give Communism a "pay citizens" hurry method. What would you leave out then? No communal corruption? Less unit support? A research penalty? Quite a few testing should be done, at least.
Another option would be delaying the discover of Communism until the start of Modern Era... just an idea tossed out at the moment...

About Fascism, let me say that i consider it completely worthless. IMHO, Fascism doesn't even deserve to be considered a goverment nor a tech. The "technology" should be called Totalitarianism, and the government Dictatorship. A "useful" dictatorship would be: pay citizens, problematic/nuisance corruption, same unit support as Monarchy. The xenophobic penalty should make it balanced and useful for not-too-big empires.

 

[gunkulator]

From a realism perspective: People supposedly are not motivated by money in communist or fascist societies. Both systems greatly restrict freedoms and provide few luxuries that a worker could spend their cash on. So cash is not a real incentive. That leaves forced labor, which historically were hallmarks of both communist and fascist governments.

What should be removed is the unhappiness penalties for forced labor in these governments. Control over the media and other information sources often prevented people even knowing that their fellow countrymen had been shipped off to labor camps.

 

[Peck of Arabia]

Facism, maybe, deserves paid labour rushing. But I believ communsim should stick to pop rushing as why did Russia eventual prevail over the Nazis in WW2? Because Stalin used the vast Russian population with little concern as to how many died just as long as the job got done. Besides, paying people extra goes against the fundamental belief of Communism that everyone should be equal

 

[Raider]

You guys bring up a good point about Communism being really strong already. Money rushing is not really a problem ideologically since you can say that they are just relocating workers from other jobs to the job you are rushing, not paying individual people more. But that is a less important point. The main issue here is government balance. Fascism can be really powerful when you have a relatively small warring nation, but I still feel it could use an extra boost. Communism you are right, could be left alone.

On the other hand, about Communism. In the last game I was playing I was going for Domination victory on a huge map. I switched to communism from republic when my empire was about 20-25% of the world area. At that point, though I had some unproductive cities, I had a higher gold income with republic than with communism. I was making around 3300 with republic and dropped down to about 2700 under communism. Based on that, I would estimate that you need to control about 33% of the world area before communims actually makes more money. But then, it is the only viable government for a very large empire.

Anyway, so current working proposal is give Fascism pay workers hurry method to make it a bit stronger. But won't that leave out communism as being behind? Whay do you think? Any people there who think Fascism is really strong? If so, please explain why. Thanks.