Communism VS Capitalism

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

What i want in this topic is:

1: Define what Capitalism and Communism are.
2: Give youre oppinion about both.
3: Give youre favourite.
4: Give youre thoughts of the futere of every system.


1: simply put: Capitalism is an economical system where material is given depending on personal productivety ,Communism is an economical system where material is given depending on the productivety of all participants of the system as a whole.

2:Capitalism works ,communism doesnt. (at this time)
Capitalism is egoistic ,communism isn't.

3:I'm pro communism. (yes ,i'm a commie ,but then a modern one)

4:Capitalism (to my oppinion) is a dying sytstem (i hope) ,i won't give you the reason why i think this.The post would be to long and my words would be ridiculed.
Communism is the future.

It is all because of the future progress of robotics.I see robots taking over human kind's work for about 90% of the work in the future.This is not possible in a Capitalism: Robot's taking over jobs=mass unemployement=rizing poverty=less consumation=falling economy.
Robotics in communism:
mass unemployement=no problem ,a contrairy.

The biggest problem of communism as economical system is less productivety. (if you work more you still get the same)
If robotics can take over humankinds work ,then this is no problem. (and robotics will take ower human's work (maybe in 20 years,still))

Robotics will perfectionalize communism ,and it will render capitalism obsolete.

Capitalism is the system of the individual ,communism of the people.
Individualism is the biggest problem of Capitalism.

 

[Mao Tse Tung]

dont have much to say on that just that i hope cap. does die and communism is perfected to work.nice to know some 1 else is commi.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I support the capitalist system. Under communism, profit is shared by all the participants in that group. Regardless of how much work you put in, you'll only get a shared amt of the profits. So humans being human, why work so hard? It'll be an easy road to economic ruin as participants lose the motive for work.
Also the profit motive encourages individuals to take the initiative, to innovate, to strike out cos they can reap the profits themselves. W/o it, society will eventually come to a standstill, progress halted and scientific knowledge stop advancing.

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

Originally posted by SKM:
I support the capitalist system. Under communism, profit is shared by all the participants in that group. Regardless of how much work you put in, you'll only get a shared amt of the profits. So humans being human, why work so hard? It'll be an easy road to economic ruin as participants lose the motive for work.
Also the profit motive encourages individuals to take the initiative, to innovate, to strike out cos they can reap the profits themselves. W/o it, society will eventually come to a standstill, progress halted and scientific knowledge stop advancing.

And the human race with regress.

In it's true form Communism would be a paradise, but human nature will always get it the way of true Communism.

Are you willing to live in a house painted white with a white car on a street where every other house and car are white??

Are you willing to give up your religion?

Are you willing to give up the chance to buy that next video game??

Are you willing ect, ect...

In true Communism you will because if any of the above are broken, it's not true Communism. It's become human nature.

 

[HIEROPHANT]

The time may come for new govt to be invented that may be better than any govt right now.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

from Hierophant:

The time may come for new govt to be invented that may be better than any govt right now.

Well said man.It has always been that way that if i questioned capitalism they called me a commi and they thought these were the only alternetive's for a system.

I'm fed up with capitalism.Its been human's system for to long.Mankind needs to evolve socialy.But mandkind is to scared to experiment.

 

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Mao Tse Tung:
dont have much to say on that just that i hope cap. does die and communism is perfected to work.nice to know some 1 else is commi.

Idealistic to the max, aren't you?
Communism is a theory that works in the lab, but fails in production.
Join the military, then see how you like busting your ass and getting same pay as sluff off next to you.
Don't like that?
Communism is the same thing.
All motivation is tossed, and the top dog goes corrupt, if wasn't already.

Show me just one successful country that is communist.
Don't say China, because that's b.s.
Cuba? uh huh
Even former Soviet countries see the light, dude.
Wake the hell up.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[DBSD13]

Can sumone explain what Theoracy is all about?

I heard its a scientist's pardise or sumthing

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

There are two alternatives to capitalism: communism and social democracy. North Korea, Cuba, and China remain communist regimes. All provide vast social safety nets -- comprehensive health care and social security -- and equal income distribution at the expense of personal liberty and economic efficiency.

The other alternative, social-democracy, is an intermediary form of government practiced by European and Scandinavian states. Democracies, but with elaborate social programs and large governments.

 

[SlowwHand]

Previously known as Socialism, which only works with cattle and sheep.

In the U.S. at least, less government, not more, is wanted.

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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand:
Previously known as Socialism, which only works with cattle and sheep.

In the U.S. at least, less government, not more, is wanted.

Thank you.

and I personally don't want to be cattle or sheep.

 

[Magnus]

Well, I asked my economics advisor and he said:

"...it is wealth that moves the world, and profit that rules it." and then spoke Elvis: "uh huh huh!' and it was so.

Capitalism wins.

 

[Leowind]

Originally posted by Magnus:
Well, I asked my economics advisor and he said:

"...it is wealth that moves the world, and profit that rules it." and then spoke Elvis: "uh huh huh!' and it was so.

Capitalism wins. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/smile.gif" border=0>

In it's true form Communism would be a paradise, but human nature will always get it the way of true Communism.

Problem is, human nature gets in the way of capitalism, too. In fact Capitalism is based on human greed--I want more than you, so I'll work hard to get it. U.S. is not even a pure capitalist state, or we wouldn't be suing Microsoft for being a monopoly, and the railroads would all be owned by one big company. Personally, I think capitalism is the lesser of two evils between it and communism, but neither is totally perfect, nor totally evil. Both have their good points. Makes Socialism seem appealing, but don't know enough to comment on the track record of Socialist countries.

And DBSD13, a Theocracy IIRC is a state headed by God; de facto run by the official religion. Can't imagine how that would be a scientist's paradise, but I suppose would depend on the religion.

 

[Flatlander Fox]

Slow, you said it best what you said about military. It is rather galling working hard and knowing that guy with same rank as you behind the desk is making the same money...

I live in Germany, which is a SOCIAL Democracy. Government Health care, Unemployment checks (Welfare), and other great perks come along with this.

But my wife (who is German) pays around 40% taxes. That's small potatoes compared to some countries in Europe, but it is still alot of her money to give up to Hans the Bum on the street corner... Or to Inga the child factory!!!

Socialism is a great idea. Really it is. The Have's should help out the Have Not's.

The American fear of anything SOUNDING socialist is outdated and very naive. We could be out of alot of our problems if we would only open up a little bit. The hungry and the homeless, in our streets, should be an affront to EVERY single American who lays his/her head on a pillow tonight. I continually hear how great we are(Especially in these forums

) but we routinely ignore the most basic of problems on our own streets. We deployed our mighty Armies to the streets of Somalia, to feed the hungry, but fail to feed the hungry on the streets of our nations capital. Is THAT the sign of the greatest, most powerful country in the world??

But every day I thank god that I am an American, just consider the alternatives

!!!

On the other hand, Communism is the epitome of a dream. Know anybody who lives in a Communist country? Ask them if they like it. If they do, that means that they are on the right end of the stick. Most people in Communist countries end up on the wrong end of that same stick.

For example, a friend (from East Germany) told me that her father waited 15 years to get a car after he recieved his license. His co-worker, a party member, recieved his 3 years after his license was completed. Her uncle was shot at near the Czech Border as he crossed to the West. Her mother didn't see her brother for eleven years. People, REAL people are living in systems like this today.
Right now. (The old Van Halen song comes to mind

)

So next time you go praising communism, and how great it is and blahblah, remember all of the people who have died fighting it (Not the Americans (Who were fighting something other than Communism), but I mean the people who lived under these systems).

P.S. As for Robots and such...

I think as soon as man creates true Artificial Intelligence, that intelligence will discover that it really doesn't like Man all that much

. Well, the rest will be history...


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I'm so tired of being tired... Sure as night will follow day... Most things I worry about, never happen anyway...

 

[shadowdale]

Hmmm reading the posts in this thread I think there is one thing that a few people have misunderstood.

Communism and Capitalism aren't government types!!! Both are economic systems - and are used by governments. Democracy is a government type, so is Republic and Monarchy and Dictatorship.

So we are talking about two totally different economic systems and it is therefor irrelevant to talk about inventing new government types - even though I very much agree with the statement that we should get our asses together and invent a new government type!

My own view on this is that yes Communism( or should I say Marxism) would be perfect if only human nature would allow us to have it - but it doesn't and believing it will is utopia! Capitalism is what the world is using right now and it is - at the moment - probably the most efficient thing we have.

So:

Communism is good, but unobtainable!

Capitalism is good, and we have it - so why change it before something better comes along(and nothing has)

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[CornMaster]

Well I think we all know which side I will argue.

Unfortunatally human nature is impeding Communism....but all it takes is a little brainwashing and genetic engenering and voila!!! The Perfect Communist State!!

Why people can't be satisified with doing a good job is beyond me. For example: I was named Employee of the Month for May. They had a big party for all the nominees. (They FORGOT to tell me, I wasn't working that day so I didn't know about it....but that's another story.) So when I came in the next day, I was suprised to see that I had the super-sweet parking spot!! Booyah!! And I figured I'd get a certificate. And that was at the most. But then I got a $250 bonus and a really nice plaque. Then I'm saying...Why? I work hard and I'm good at my job. It's nice to be reconized but I never expected this "reward" for JUST doing my job. And this is what makes me mad. Stupid "incentives" to get us to work harder. WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST WORK AND BE HAPPY TO BE HELPING OUT OTHERS!!!! Anyway.....maybe I'm off on a rant here.....and I've kind of lost my point.......aaaaaaahhh......hummmm....

The whole idea of religion and capitalism seem so childish!!! Religion (Christianity) is like....if your a good boy then you go to heaven. And if your bad you go to hell. And capitalism is like, if you work REALLY hard then we will give you a treat.

IT'S bullfeathers.

Communism seems much more mature!!! Everyone is equal and everyone gets the same opportunities, same pay for same work. No "God", no belief's to impead technology and research. Religion is one of the biggest scams....but anyway..that's not what this discussion is about.

The incentive in Communism is that if the country does good, EVERYONE does good. So if you work hard YOU WILL be rewarded! People can't see past their own greedy noses!! AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need to cool off.

Later Guys

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[CornMaster]

Originally posted by shadowdale:
Communism and Capitalism aren't government types!!! Both are economic systems - and are used by governments. Democracy is a government type, so is Republic and Monarchy and Dictatorship.

OOOHHHH So close.

Democracy isn't a government type either. It's HOW the government is choosen. By the People, through Voting.

But thanks for playing.

(It's not an insult....please don't take it that way.

)

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[Magnus]

I was reading recently that of a strange occurance that states generally thought of as capitalist (western eruope, america, japan) are adding more and more social programs & moving toward socialism, whereas states who are now (china) or were recently (russia) communist are adding more capitalist tendencies to their economies... so it seems the two sides are moving towards each other? wouldn't that be a kicker eh?

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Communism cannot be separated from government into just a economic system, because it cannot function at any minimum sustaining level without a totalitarian and complete intrusive government. If the commissar is not looking over the citizens shoulder every minute that citizen will practice capitalism to any extent he can get away with it. Also since the greater economic power is centered in the central government, this gives more opportunity for corruption, requiring yet more police power. Totalitarian government remains an almost inseparable part of communism.

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Gauis Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
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[This message has been edited by Lefty Scaevola (edited July 11, 2001).]

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

Originally posted by CornMaster:

And capitalism is like, if you work REALLY hard then we will give you a treat.


The incentive in Communism is that if the country does good, EVERYONE does good. So if you work hard YOU WILL be rewarded!

Is there a difference? Work hard and get a treat(reward) I believe they are one in the same.

Originally posted by CornMaster:
Communism seems much more mature!!! Everyone is equal and everyone gets the same opportunities, same pay for same work. No "God", no belief's to impead technology and research. Religion is one of the biggest scams....but anyway..that's not what this discussion is about.

Not to get off the topic, but it was posted and I was wondering about these same opportunities. The opportunties chosen for you right. I don't know anyone who wants the opportunty to pick up the trash when they have the opportunty to be a cook, fisherman, farmer, ect ect.... Would you be all happy picking up the trash? Someone has to. Your way someone will be picked to do it. My way someone will be hired to do it.