Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2008
- Messages
- 1,502
Deleted! =) I'm stupid and dumb.
Communitas map script
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
Ahriman
Tyrant
Playing 3.1.6, I am getting really weird looking Communitas maps: jungle next to flood plains and desert. That just doesn't make sense.
My settler appears on a desert hill on the coast, next to a flood plain, jungles, a forest, and a plains. There are more jungle, forest, desert hills within 2 tiles.
There are only ~3 tiles in a large radius in any direction that aren't water or forest or jungle or desert or mountain, and there are huge swathes of marsh (like 10+ tiles all together).
There are other areas that are huge areas of open plains and desert, with no hills or forests at all.
Another start was surrounded by marsh and jungle and coast.
[Sorry, screenshots aren't working for some reason.]
But this doesn't look like earth or like any of the normal mapscripts, and it seems really problematic for gameplay.
My settler appears on a desert hill on the coast, next to a flood plain, jungles, a forest, and a plains. There are more jungle, forest, desert hills within 2 tiles.
There are only ~3 tiles in a large radius in any direction that aren't water or forest or jungle or desert or mountain, and there are huge swathes of marsh (like 10+ tiles all together).
There are other areas that are huge areas of open plains and desert, with no hills or forests at all.
Another start was surrounded by marsh and jungle and coast.
[Sorry, screenshots aren't working for some reason.]
But this doesn't look like earth or like any of the normal mapscripts, and it seems really problematic for gameplay.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I think I know what you're seeing. I added some code someone linked to which should have improved the map in theory, but it seems like it can cause some weird terrain patterns. I'm going to see if I can fix that. It will take time to get this map perfect. 
Ahriman
Tyrant
Cool, looking forward to it.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I've added code that turns jungle near desert into open plains, and tundra near grassland into plains. I also added code that will make some jungle/forest/marsh into open terrain, and some open plains/tundra into forest. This should add some randomness so gameplay isn't so lopsided in these areas.
stackpointer
King
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
- Messages
- 809
Are cities founded on desert tiles supposed to consume 2 movement points when you move an unit into it from a non desert tile? Similarly, if I found a city on a hill and move an unit into it, it'll consume only one movement point. Actually, I'm not entirely sure if that's accurate since I'm not completely sure how movement with roads and non road tiles affect each other in the game.
Also here's something amusing I noticed: the map script seems to generate rivers in the middle of oceans. It's completely invisible in the default view but I was in strategic view in the late game and noticed the art for the rivers completely isolated in the middle of the ocean. However, this is even less of an issue than lake rivers since they do not affect gameplay and are actually completely invisible!
Also here's something amusing I noticed: the map script seems to generate rivers in the middle of oceans. It's completely invisible in the default view but I was in strategic view in the late game and noticed the art for the rivers completely isolated in the middle of the ocean. However, this is even less of an issue than lake rivers since they do not affect gameplay and are actually completely invisible!
mitsho
Deity
I've been thinking of the desert+oasis problem, although I haven't had time to play again...
Giving food to the tiles surrounding an oasis feels wrong. Oasis should be tiles far-and-in between and not make their surroundings awesome. After all, these hexes cover huge spaces... Again, that's just what it feels like.
However, there are some features in/near deserts that work quite well: Lakes such as Lake Chad, the Aral sea or Lake Titicaca. Around these lakes, some cities/communities could develop. Another example would be the half-natural/half-manmade dam of Ma'arib which is the basis for the Queen of Sheba myth in the bible. The Kingdom of Sheba/Ma'arib did thrive in the desert because of those "lakes".
So is it possible to switch the "food bonus" to surrounding tiles from oasis to lakes? Can we put lakes in deserts to balance it out?
Not sure it's necessary, but it'd be neat
Giving food to the tiles surrounding an oasis feels wrong. Oasis should be tiles far-and-in between and not make their surroundings awesome. After all, these hexes cover huge spaces... Again, that's just what it feels like.
However, there are some features in/near deserts that work quite well: Lakes such as Lake Chad, the Aral sea or Lake Titicaca. Around these lakes, some cities/communities could develop. Another example would be the half-natural/half-manmade dam of Ma'arib which is the basis for the Queen of Sheba myth in the bible. The Kingdom of Sheba/Ma'arib did thrive in the desert because of those "lakes".
So is it possible to switch the "food bonus" to surrounding tiles from oasis to lakes? Can we put lakes in deserts to balance it out?
Not sure it's necessary, but it'd be neat
albie_123
Modding In Secret
I don't see the need for oases and lakes in the desert, they're basically the same thing. I'd prefer just to have the food from oases taken out entirely. There are still enough flood plains for some parts of the desert to be good.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I created realistic mountain snow! 
It now depends on climate, instead of vanilla's approach of treating all mountains the same. This took a few hours of work but I'm very happy with the results.
@stackpointer
I'm searching for a way to remove the odd rivers in oceans. It's caused by the ocean rifts I create to separate the world in 2 pieces. The game apparently doesn't delete rivers when we turn a tile into water.
@mitsho, albie_123
I like strategy games more than gambling. In Civ 4 success depended a lot on lucky start locations. Civ 5 made skill matter more, by equalizing terrain with tiles like sheep and oases. I like Civ 5's method.
It now depends on climate, instead of vanilla's approach of treating all mountains the same. This took a few hours of work but I'm very happy with the results.
@stackpointer
I'm searching for a way to remove the odd rivers in oceans. It's caused by the ocean rifts I create to separate the world in 2 pieces. The game apparently doesn't delete rivers when we turn a tile into water.
@mitsho, albie_123
I like strategy games more than gambling. In Civ 4 success depended a lot on lucky start locations. Civ 5 made skill matter more, by equalizing terrain with tiles like sheep and oases. I like Civ 5's method.
mitsho
Deity
Yeah, I'm not trying to alter the balance, I'm just thinking of ways to make deserts viable without "pimpling" them with Oasis. Or can you tell me the plural of Oasis without looking it up? I do agree with you on game balance, but too many Oasis are ugly, point. It's not a pressing issue at all though.
That map above is nice, but it would be hell to play as Poland, boxed in and all. Would've been a bloody early game and then a rather empty continent after that. The mountain range there could use a few more "passes", but the snow looks good and the amount of oasisses in the desert seems right here Looking at the minimap, there could be a few more continous oceans in the North or South for my taste.
On another thing, if I remember right, the "old-new age", "high-low sealevel", "dry-wet" options aren't available in communitas. I would love them back if it's possible. If often play on smaller maps, but with low sealevel if I want to play with more civs on a smaller map for example. Probably asking too much of you here though
I do agree with you on game balance, but too many Oasis are ugly, point. It's not a pressing issue at all though.That map above is nice, but it would be hell to play as Poland, boxed in and all. Would've been a bloody early game and then a rather empty continent after that. The mountain range there could use a few more "passes", but the snow looks good and the amount of oasisses in the desert seems right here
Looking at the minimap, there could be a few more continous oceans in the North or South for my taste.On another thing, if I remember right, the "old-new age", "high-low sealevel", "dry-wet" options aren't available in communitas. I would love them back if it's possible. If often play on smaller maps, but with low sealevel if I want to play with more civs on a smaller map for example. Probably asking too much of you here though
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I enjoy unusual games like that. It's uncommon because mountain ranges this big are rare; I created 4 large maps before finding one to show off the snowfall patterns. Start locations and resources are not handled by this map code, though - that's a different part of the game shared by all maps. The map just controls terrain and features.
Figuring out where to put mountain passes is easy for humans, but would be difficult to create an algorithm for. Our brains are amazing!
We just think, hey this mountain range is 10 tiles long, change the center tile to a hill. But how do we figure out mountains are lined up, especially if it's a curve? I'm not sure how to do it.
Figuring out where to put mountain passes is easy for humans, but would be difficult to create an algorithm for. Our brains are amazing!
We just think, hey this mountain range is 10 tiles long, change the center tile to a hill. But how do we figure out mountains are lined up, especially if it's a curve? I'm not sure how to do it.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Very cool, nice job.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
@black213
It should be possible to play the map script alone. I put the map in its own folder for this purpose.
\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\Communitas Expansion Pack - Basic (v 3)\Maps
If you open the Maps folder in the mod, this contains the map. Place an _ underscore in front of all other mod folder names to disable the rest of the mod (Gameplay, Interface, Misc, Tools, Text). I haven't tested this yet, but it should work in theory.
It should be possible to play the map script alone. I put the map in its own folder for this purpose.
\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\Communitas Expansion Pack - Basic (v 3)\Maps
If you open the Maps folder in the mod, this contains the map. Place an _ underscore in front of all other mod folder names to disable the rest of the mod (Gameplay, Interface, Misc, Tools, Text). I haven't tested this yet, but it should work in theory.
I created realistic mountain snow!
<snip>
That is beautiful. All of the terrain just makes sense; none of that "why is there a snow tile in the middle of these plains/foothills . . ."
Seek
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2010
- Messages
- 3,773
Is this map script playable without the mod? It looks convincing, and I'd rather play with the mod once it's more wrapped up (for the second time
@black213
It should be possible to play the map script alone. I put the map in its own folder for this purpose.
\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\Communitas Expansion Pack - Basic (v 3)\Maps
If you open the Maps folder in the mod, this contains the map. Place an _ underscore in front of all other mod folder names to disable the rest of the mod (Gameplay, Interface, Misc, Tools, Text). I haven't tested this yet, but it should work in theory.
A much simpler way would be to copy the "Communitas" .lua file from the folder Thal listed and paste it in the C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization v\assets\Maps folder. Added bonus - you can play "normal" single-player games with it without activating any mods or going through the mods menu. Just select the mapscript in the Advanced Setup screen.
Agreed. Thanks for improving the already-great PW3 map. Great job, Thal!
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
It's possible to use maps without having the map inside an activated mod? I had no idea! I haven't played many custom maps. That's helpful to know. Well, at least with it in the Maps folder people can find it easily.
Zeppelin4
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2007
- Messages
- 230
A much simpler way would be to copy the "Communitas" .lua file from the folder Thal listed and paste it in the C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization v\assets\Maps folder. Added bonus - you can play "normal" single-player games with it without activating any mods or going through the mods menu. Just select the mapscript in the Advanced Setup screen.
Agreed. Thanks for improving the already-great PW3 map. Great job, Thal!
I only need the communitas.lua file or everything else in the map folder copied over?
Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
I created realistic mountain snow!
Great job, looks VERY realistic.
I do, too. But isn't it a bit conflicting that you defend this unusual starting position while you generally prefer similar starting conditions for all (including fertile deserts)?
I'd rather see less fertile deserts and better uniques for civs that tend to start there (e.g. Arabia). But since probably only a fraction of CEP users follows such discussions, they would probably complain how unbalanced Arabia is. And of course there's the "randomized starts" problem.
But it's no pressing issue, I generally agree to 90-95% of your design choices, especially regarding terrain.
Good job! :thumbup:
