Communitu_79

No much snow on pics above...

I tried to play on a huge Communitu_79-1.05 few days ago.
There were a ton of ancient ruins but not enought strategic ressource. Really not enought. Unplayable for many civs. Like no horse, no coal and 2 irons for Egypte on a little continent. I tried hard but I had to abandon before the end. Otherwise the map was nice about terrain/rivers. It looks difficult to make a perfect generic map script... Does it?
 
No much snow on pics above..

This one has less snow than usual. If you look carefully, most snow is located on some mountains.

It looks difficult to make a perfect generic map script... Does it?

Each map has quite the randomness, so you can't count on the proportions to be the same from one map to the next. If land is spawn closer to the poles, that's going to be colder. Big continents are going to produce more dry lands. And so on. I have to generate dezens of maps before I get the feel for the actual proportions.
Furthermore, there are parts of the script I just can't debug, since the variables can't be printed in the logs. Touching anything there is like walking over eggs.

There were a ton of ancient ruins but not enought strategic ressource. Really not enought. Unplayable for many civs
Strategics are generated upon terrain types. Flat fertile lands produce horses. So, when the map happens to produce less of these territories, it ends up with less horses. There's a failsafe option that just adds some more if it is lacking, but I don't want to place too much. That said, version 1.06 improved a lot in strategic allocation. Iron is still scarce, but horses should be more common. Just check the pics. You can see how often horses and iron and everything is spawn.
 
Furthermore, there are parts of the script I just can't debug, since the variables can't be printed in the logs. Touching anything there is like walking over eggs.

Did you ever try using the Firetuner map generation thingy? I know I had suggested it to you once before, and I don't remember if you ever said anything one way or the other.

Would let you change things and then generate a bunch of maps in a row without needing to open up the game.
 
Did you ever try using the Firetuner map generation thingy? I know I had suggested it to you once before, and I don't remember if you ever said anything one way or the other.

Would let you change things and then generate a bunch of maps in a row without needing to open up the game.
Indeed! It was a lot of help. That's the reason I was able to do in one day the same work that took me one week before.

But the issue is this: For debugging you can use a print function that writes things in the console. This print() fuction works for the first pieces of code, where terrain and features are inserted, but it is misteriously silent when it reaches the pieces of resources and settler allocation. The console just tells me that something is not working at line #, but I can't see what the current variable values are.
 
Glad it helped! Wish I knew anything about the rest, but I only played with it.
 
I'm on a continent with 3 other civs (looks like 4/4 so far). The continent itself is heavy on desert and has a fair share of mountains, but assuming it's variety, I like it.

However, for the second game in a row, there are no horses at all on my continent. My suggestion is to find out what screws up the essentials and nail that down, before worrying about rainfall, snow, etc.
 
I'm on a continent with 3 other civs (looks like 4/4 so far). The continent itself is heavy on desert and has a fair share of mountains, but assuming it's variety, I like it.

However, for the second game in a row, there are no horses at all on my continent. My suggestion is to find out what screws up the essentials and nail that down, before worrying about rainfall, snow, etc.
Can you share some pics?
 
Can you share some pics?

Sorry, I just shut down the game. My current RL project has enough ancillary aspects that I have to focus on it full-time outside of essentials. So the hardware aspects of the VP temptation have been dismantled and reassigned throughout my place!
 
Sorry, I just shut down the game. My current RL project has enough ancillary aspects that I have to focus on it full-time outside of essentials. So the hardware aspects of the VP temptation have been dismantled and reassigned throughout my place!
Too bad. I took an hiatus of several months before the current game, so I understand.

Anyways, would you think that increasing the chances for horses in flooding plains may be of help? It seems to me that you did not find horses in your continent because the zone where you started was desert heavy, and horses appear mostly in plains and grasslands. Flooding plains is a valid terrain for horses too, but the chances here are low so farm triangles are most likely to form.
 
No much snow on pics above...

I tried to play on a huge Communitu_79-1.05 few days ago.
There were a ton of ancient ruins but not enought strategic ressource. Really not enought. Unplayable for many civs. Like no horse, no coal and 2 irons for Egypte on a little continent. I tried hard but I had to abandon before the end. Otherwise the map was nice about terrain/rivers. It looks difficult to make a perfect generic map script... Does it?

i give a +1 to this post. One thing i missed from the "original" is the spawn of strategic ressource on islands, when big continent had a "ok amount" of ressource, the real treasure lies in the middle of the oceans, creating very interesting conflict and competition over the control of those precious lands!

I don't know exactly your goal, so maybe it was intended, but i found the ocean less attractiv than before and i wanted to know if you could bring back those "treasure of the atlantic" back^^?
 
One thing i wanted to add: it seems the map do not adapt if you remove some player:
Here is the exemple on a huge map where i remove 2 players and it creates 2 "empty" starts for those missing players
 

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i give a +1 to this post. One thing i missed from the "original" is the spawn of strategic ressource on islands, when big continent had a "ok amount" of ressource, the real treasure lies in the middle of the oceans, creating very interesting conflict and competition over the control of those precious lands!

I don't know exactly your goal, so maybe it was intended, but i found the ocean less attractiv than before and i wanted to know if you could bring back those "treasure of the atlantic" back^^?
I just wanted more free space for improvements, and maybe reduce a bit the world amount of strategics, since the standard always looked too much for me. Islands should have some mid-late game resources, this one has not changed, but the number of island has been drastically reduced. I agree it's nice to find some strategics in islands as another reason to settle there.

One thing i wanted to add: it seems the map do not adapt if you remove some player:
Here is the exemple on a huge map where i remove 2 players and it creates 2 "empty" starts for those missing players
That's weird. My only change here was to force a minimum/maximum number of players in any continent. It may be one of these things that expects an implicit value. I'll investigate it. Also weird, land should be 40% of tiles, but in this map it looks like there's more than that.

Ok, based on your feedback, I'll hotfix this release with the following:
- Increase chance for horses in flooding plains.
- Increase chance for strategics in islands.

Just let me finish my ongoing game ;)
 
In the latest versions along with low number of strategic resource tiles there is almost none sheep, cow, bison tiles. In this Cat-du-fromage ss land looks super empty.
 
In the latest versions along with low number of strategic resource tiles there is almost none sheep, cow, bison tiles. In this Cat-du-fromage ss land looks super empty.
70% of the land that has been generated in this screenshot is desert and forest. Of course there is little cattle and bison. I may have removed sheep in desert hills following its civilopedia description (can't remember), but we could restore it if needed.

A thing that I explained a few posts ago, it's that this map script produces very different climates from one instance to the other. One map is cold, the next is warm, one is humid, the next is dry. One has most land close to the poles, the next is bigger at the equator. There's a lot of RNG values going on. It could happen that the next map has very little deserts and too many grasslands, so you'll find more cattle and sheep but less stones and iron.

About forest. The script makes deer abundant in tundra forests, and scarce in other climate forests. Why? Tundra terrain is already bad enough that we don't want to chopp the trees, and it becomes much better with a deer and a camp and a tundra pantheon. However, deer in temperate forests get in the middle of farm/sawmill clusters. Just one deer prevents clusters to be formed in 7 tiles. That said, the script is set to produce some deer in temperate forests and I see none in this capture, one or two should be more proper. I'll raise it a little.

I have mixed feelings with desert hills. For instance, I understand the likeliness for sheep as they give you food in a very scarce on food location. On the other hand, a desert is a desert because you can't find food, and I believe civilopedia bans sheep from desert. Big patches of desert where few cities can settle are tactically interesting too, since they create natural barriers against land invasions, and this is achieved by not having many food to support population and specialists.
But there's an issue with the desert pantheon, for a civ that decides to thrive in deserts. While a mined hill is a rightfully nice tile on its own, it's true that a hilly desert became too scarce on resources for the pantheon. Valid resources for harsh desert are stones, iron, aluminum and oil, but actually only stones matter to the pantheon. Valid resources for flood plains are also wheat and horses. Spirit of the Desert does not require resources to be improved, so every stone you reveal will yield +1faith +1prod +1gold even withouth the quarry. This way, a mined hill will net 5 production with a forge, and a quarried hill will give 1 faith 6 prod 1 gold with a stone works and the pantheon.
 
Ok, ok. I've investigated further, and it seems that the Communitas script I was using missed several things. One critical thing it was missing is the function that handles resources over hills. (I've found the original in GitHub/LoneGazebo, by the way). The other is the function that handles luxury placement. Copy-pasted the functions into my forked script.

HOTFIX 1.08
- Recovered functions for resources on hills and luxury placement.
- Increased chance for deer on temperate forests.
- Increased chance for strategics on islands, especially coal.
- Increased chance for horses in flood plains.

Showing some sheep in hilly deserts:
sheep on hills.jpg


Showing more deer in temperate forest:
extra deer.jpg


EDIT.
I just wanted to thank you all that are giving feedback. You may not believe it, but I'm the lazy guy type that usually procrastinates, and only very rarely get into some frenzy work. The inspiration has passed, and without you it would not have been posible to polish the script. I am now using this map script as my default, and I may take a look some day to atlantic rifts (they have some tendency to slip sideways), but I think it's safe for playing now.
 

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Does it feel to anyone else like there might be too many rivers? I'm finding myself having a difficult time offensively using my Skirmishers even in flat terrain because it seems like there's a river every two tiles.
 
Does it feel to anyone else like there might be too many rivers? I'm finding myself having a difficult time offensively using my Skirmishers even in flat terrain because it seems like there's a river every two tiles.
Here you are. Fewer rivers.
Beware that now there are many small continents without any river at all.
 

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Here you are. Fewer rivers.
Beware that now there are many small continents without any river at all.

Man, this is some kinda customer service. Appreciated!

I was actually wondering if it was just me, though. I'm not sure if it was there in the last two games and I just didn't notice, or if I'm imagining the problem.
 
Why was this decision made?
Good question.
I wanted to have a little bit more of snow in the map. It's such a pity to have one terrain, art and everything, and never use it because it's awful to play with.
So, I added resources to snow in an attempt of letting it be less awful and not feel guilty of increasing the snow amount. It's still not a good terrain, but you can find sometimes strategics like alluminum and uranium, which is just ok if you happen to have a city nearby, and some stones in case you were unlucky enough to be forced to settle to close to snow.

But you won't find many snow tiles anyways, as the map script only makes enough snow tiles for this to be noticeable like 30% of the runs.
 
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