Community Feedback Needed: Biggest AI issues

[Fafnir13]

Does the AI react at all to casting Blaze on its forests or Scorch on its plains? It didn't used to, as I remember, but hopefully that's been changed. If not, the AI should at least cancel open borders if you're doing, erm, negative terraforming in its lands, or possibly declare war. I remember when I first discovered FfH, I'd had some fun burning down the elves' forests while they did nothing to stop me.

Waaay back with the latest patch before BtS version I started an intercontinental war with just about everyone by casting scorch in another player's lands. I've been happily setting fire to other civs tree since then, although I haven't tried scorching anything. My guess would be scorch does cause war and blaze doesn't.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Contagion, Earthquake, Hastur's Razor, Kidnap, Rage, Ring of Flames, Scorch, Spores, Steal, Tsunami, and Wonder are the only spells that cause war. Blaze does not. Perhaps it should though.

 

[Fafnir13]

Except that you might be doing them a favor by burning down their jungles for them. Even getting rid of regular trees can be a good thing.

Was playing a game today and noticed that, while many of the ai's are doing much better, the kuriotates are still massing scouts to fend off my attack around turn 200. They had just founded the order, so it looks like just another case of bee-lining for a tech without worrying about the consequences. Maybe a quick dip into hunting and archery for some good defense units?

 

[Freya]

In my latest game Ethne got eliminated by Rhoanna. I know that the elohim AI does'nt cast their wordspell unless they are attacked by two civs at once, but I think it would be a good thing if they cast it if they are down to one city and soon to be eliminated too. And then be programmed to start to build better defenses during the peace turns.......

 

[hbar]

The problem with blaze causing/not causing war is that usually you can start the fire in your own territory (with appropriate fireblocks of course) and have it spread to those pesky elves next door. I almost never burn forests that I have open borders with.

Maybe it could cause negative diplo? (-4 "Little Galeen's been playing with matches again, and he burned down my Ancient Forest!")

 

[DuckAndCower]

In my latest game as Bannor, the Shieam only had one city and almost no techs late into the game. They had built the Pact of the Nilhorn, and were apparently bee-lining AV, but soooo slowly. I managed to found Order, CoE, reach fanaticism, and then found AV before they did. Then I took them out.

They AI really needs to learn how to avoid spending too many turns building a useless wonder, especially when it cripples their economy while they're trying for an expensive tech. It's just no fun to run into a civ that isn't even trying to put up a fight.

 

[Hangly Man]

I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if this was mentioned, but maybe Barnaxus's AI could be tweaked so he hangs back and uses his abilities to promote golems rather than rushing out to attack something and getting killed.

Every time I see a message saying Barnaxus was built, I get a message about ten turns later informing me that he's dead.

Also do the Luchuirp have any scripting that tells them to try to recapture and rebuild Barnaxus back after he's been disassembled? He's kind of central to the Luchuirp strategy.

In my opinion the biggest flaw in the game is that there are just way too many prereq buildings needed to build even the most basic of units, which I think is most of the reason the AI never really musters an decent army. I think the number of such buildings could be reduced by about 2/3.
Archery ranges, barracks etc. could confer certain promotions or experience, and could be a priority for some civs, but they shouldn't be required to build basic units like archers, axemen or hunters.
For example, when you're under siege by barbs in the early game (and they come fast) this means the difference between 15 turns until your first hunter and 65 turns (the hunting lodge requires a whole lot of hammers.) If I suddenly come under attack by an AI civ and don't have the necessary buildings I'm pretty much boned because it's impossible to build anything useful quickly.

Also, since there are so many prereq buildings available by the middle of the game the city build list becomes massive, and infrastructure lags way too far behind tech. Since most of the buildings don't confer any bonuses beyond the ability to create a certain unit, I find myself designating one city as an archer city, a couple others as barracks cities, etc. It's hard for me to keep track of, and it seems the AI isn't having a much better time of it.

In my opinion, prereq buildings should only be required to build special or advanced units like vampires and beastmen whose advantage is worth the initial investment and delay.

 

[DuckAndCower]

iI find myself designating one city as an archer city, a couple others as barracks cities, etc.

I believe this is the intended effect. It forces you to plan ahead and specialize the production of your cities. I'm not sure how much it actually adds to the game, though.

As far as the AI struggling with this, in the options when you start a Custom Game, there's a checkbox for something like "AI Building Requirements Off". Check that, and they won't need stables for cavalry, ranges for archers, etc. Should put you on more even footing.

 

[Charybdis]

Probably been mentioned, but civilizations should need a minimum city threshold before they want to build the mercurian gate.

On top of that, they should consider their power vs the number of Ashen Veil civilizations.

Just had the Ljosalfar build the gate, giving their third city over (they only had 3) and then promptly declaring war on 8 civilizations, two of which are ranked 2nd and 3rd atm, who're a considerable jump above the next closest people.


Pretty silly idea for them to invest so much in the way of resources, to lose a city, and gain a massive war.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I'm seeing ai build other stuff over mana nodes again. Maybe just increasing the weight of them would be enough...

 

[DuckAndCower]

Would it be possible to tell them not to build other stuff on an improved resources. I swear, the next worker that puts a fort on one of my resources is getting disbanded.

 

[Ahriman]

You can do this easily; go into the Options screen, check the "automated workers don't build over existing improvements" option. Also checking "automated workers don't cut down forests" is also generally a good idea.

 

[Maniac]

I'm seeing ai build other stuff over mana nodes again. Maybe just increasing the weight of them would be enough...

Or let mana improvements provide a good yield.

 

[rocklikeafool]

So, here's my biggest problem (and I'm quite sure many other people's as well). And it's gettin better, but not as good as Vanilla Civ or BTS. The AI doesn't build the best possible units or upgrade their units. In other words, when the AI has the ability to build longbowmen, they don't. They either build warriors or archers. Same with Champions. No, they jus keep goin with their warriors. Now, the way I think we should solve this is similar to Vanilla Civ.
In Vanilla Civ (and BTS, Warlords, etc.), a unit that is obselete cannot be built. So, make it so Warriors go obselete when both archery and bronze workin techs are discovered. Then, make axemen obselete with the respective tech for champions. (It varies, as you know.) Same with Longbowmen, Immortals, Paladins, etc., etc. That would force the AI to only build up-to-date units. They might not upgrade their old units (To my knowledge, they couldn't even get the AI to do this in Vanilla Civ or regular BTS), but they'd have to build new up-to-date one anyway.

 

[Darksaber1]

Or let mana improvements provide a good yield.

I can see water or nature nods boasting farm yeald, and life nods boasting town-line improvements upgrading faster.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I can see water or nature nods boasting farm yeald, and life nods boasting town-line improvements upgrading faster.

Keep in mind that such additions will prolly cause balance issues less there are other penalties added to counter those benefits.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Or let mana improvements provide a good yield.

Yes, well, that's a design decision and not related to the ai valueing mana for what it is per se. Mana is rare enough that a +3-4 bonus wouldn't be unbalancing in the long run, imo, but it's a different issue.

 

[Maniac]

Yes, well, that's a design decision and not related to the ai valueing mana for what it is per se. Mana is rare enough that a +3-4 bonus wouldn't be unbalancing in the long run, imo, but it's a different issue.

But does getting the AI to use mana well not outweigh whatever minor design decision it was that's behind not letting mana give a yield?

 

[Bad Player]

In Vanilla Civ (and BTS, Warlords, etc.), a unit that is obselete cannot be built. So, make it so Warriors go obselete when both archery and bronze workin techs are discovered. Then, make axemen obselete with the respective tech for champions. (It varies, as you know.) Same with Longbowmen, Immortals, Paladins, etc., etc. That would force the AI to only build up-to-date units. They might not upgrade their old units (To my knowledge, they couldn't even get the AI to do this in Vanilla Civ or regular BTS), but they'd have to build new up-to-date one anyway.

But sometimes you might want to build a lower tier unit - for example in an emergency you don't have time to build a more expensive unit to hold you over, or sometimes you want to get a promotion that only lower tier units have and then upgrade them later.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

These units already go obsolete if the city can build their upgrades. Are you suggesting that the tech itself lead to obsolescence, even if the player doesn't have the ability to build anything better? In that case, gifting a tech to a player could make him unable to build almost any army until he acquires the proper buildings or resources. It is a bad idea.


As I said, if you mean make them obsolete if all the improvements can be built, then that it how things are now. The AI tends not to have all the buildings required for the upgrade units, which is why they don;t often build them. (I still think that these buildings need to give more bonuses, to encourage both the AI and humans to get them. No building should serve only to allow a unit.)