Complaint Sub-Forum

[protocol7]

It's not meant to gloss over anything, I don't know anything at all about how autonomous Firaxis is. It's meant to explain why reasonable people would conflate them - I haven't seen any evidence at all to prove why you should or shouldn't, and conflating a subsidiary of a company with the company would be the reasonable default I think. Or at least a reasonable default.

 

[protocol7]

I have a totally optional, but hopefully fun challenge for anyone who is tired of the general negativity about the game in the general topic -- go participate in the strategy subforum for a couple days. I did over the last few, and there was really no negativity I saw. The only issue is it's quite dead, but in theory it's the best place to be to have conversations with people who are playing the game, enjoying it, and wanting to discuss playing it. My highlight was participating in a Carthage ancient-age only challenge.

My theory is if everyone spent the same amount of time in strategy talking about the game as they did complaining about complainers in general, given that the game only has 36% positive reviews recently and the general tone is going to reflect that, everyone would get what they wanted because it would naturally filter the disagreement apart. And nobody has to get banished to the shadow realm.

 

[aelf]

I actually had to create an account just to respond to this..

But after playing a lot of closed betas I have noticed that in their lowest moments these "I like the game, so the general community opinion doesn't matter" type of posts proliferate. It is also astounding how these same people then stare blankly rubbing their foreheads when the game inevitably dies (although at least some have the decency to apologies). While I doubt civ will actually die this mentality of being king of a forum on a game no one cares about it is depressing. I never could have imagined seeing this on a civ forum and this does not bode well for the franchise.

I really don't give a damn, and I'm not optimistic about the franchise's future anyway with the market being what it is.

Your argument might appeal to the devs, but trust me when I say that it doesn't to a lot of fans of the game, who are sick of the overwhelming amount of salt.

 

[protocol7]

I’m guessing there are ways to accelerate the game’s demise and alienate anyone who doesn’t accept the game as-is (at least the ones interested in talking about it) if the goal is a quiet forum of die hards with the rest of the world having moved on.

I think I had a blind spot to thinking anyone would think like that, but now that I know it’s the case it sort of explains a lot. No judgement, it just sincerely hadn’t occurred to me but I get the idea.

 

[Gorbles]

It's not meant to gloss over anything, I don't know anything at all about how autonomous Firaxis is. It's meant to explain why reasonable people would conflate them - I haven't seen any evidence at all to prove why you should or shouldn't, and conflating a subsidiary of a company with the company would be the reasonable default I think. Or at least a reasonable default.

I guess I was confused, as I already said that the conflation was understandable in the post you replied to. It's still something that should be corrected (however gently), assuming it's relevant to the complaint in question. Which it was! Defending the people making the game isn't the same as defending corporate DLC impositions. At least, I don't think it is.

 

[aelf]

I’m guessing there are ways to accelerate the game’s demise and alienate anyone who doesn’t accept the game as-is (at least the ones interested in talking about it) if the goal is a quiet forum of die hards with the rest of the world having moved on.

I think I had a blind spot to thinking anyone would think like that, but now that I know it’s the case it sort of explains a lot. No judgement, it just sincerely hadn’t occurred to me but I get the idea.

It's not going to accelerate the game's demise, no. People aren't exactly going to buy the game if they read constant complaints about it, as you've said many times. So if anything, a lot of negativity will more likely lead to that outcome.

 

[protocol7]

I guess it comes down to the question of whether bad reviews a symptom or cause? You can make a case that people leave bad reviews when they buy a game and don’t like it, or that they buy the game to leave a bad review because it’s the popular thing to do. I personally tend to think the former is more likely, and it would also explain the glut of disappointed people who want to talk about their disappointment after having spent hard-earned money on something. That’s also probably why the complainers won’t go away until the game has well and truly failed (which I at least personally hope doesn’t happen).

I wouldn’t buy a game just to be able to leave a bad review no matter how big a “hater” I was, but I also find many people strange so who really knows.

 

[aelf]

That doesn't say anything about whether it's good or bad for complaints not to be constantly posted on discussion forums.

 

[protocol7]

My assumption was the people leaving bad reviews would also be complaining on forums, as a way to express their disappointment (and ideally be heard, empathised with).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Congratulations.

CivFanatics has managed to create a 'Complaint Sub-Forum' that for 5 solid pages is all about the subject of complaints and complainers without a single word of complaint about the game.

Now start another one about how many complainers can stand on the head of a pin and scream complaints . . .

 

[zugz]

You obviously want to participate as you purposely created an account so you could comment on this thread.
Personally I felt it needed a remake rather than just make minor changes to a previous version.
I certainly don’t feel ripped off and I don’t see why others would feel that way, everyone had options to view videos and reviews prior to purchasing it and the option to request a refund after purchasing it.
$80-100 is still cheap entertainment even if you don’t have 100+ hrs in it, you can easily spend that much going out with your family for dinner.

And this is why I didn't want to participate. You didn't answer if every other civ game was just a "remake" of civ 1 (as you implied). Then said "you felt it needed a remake" after complaining that people "don’t like the new direction the game has taken and just wanted a remake "... What am I even supposed to do with these statements? In any case I have no interest in trying to explain to you how getting less product for more money is disadvantageous to the consumer, or try and figure out what the ever changing definition of "remake" you keep using is.

I really don't give a damn, and I'm not optimistic about the franchise's future anyway with the market being what it is.

Your argument might appeal to the devs, but trust me when I say that it doesn't to a lot of fans of the game, who are sick of the overwhelming amount of salt.

If the argument is that this is a dead franchise anyway so who cares as long as I have fun, then at least I kind of get it. But then complaining about people venting their frustration when you are dancing on the bones of something they loved is a bit of reach. In any case all I really wanted to say is that to me being proud that the haters are leaving the forum because no body gives a crap about the game is a pyrrhic victory.

 

[CliffCo]

And this is why I didn't want to participate. You didn't answer if every other civ game was just a "remake" of civ 1 (as you implied). Then said "you felt it needed a remake" after complaining that people "don’t like the new direction the game has taken and just wanted a remake "... What am I even supposed to do with these statements? In any case I have no interest in trying to explain to you how getting less product for more money is disadvantageous to the consumer, or try and figure out what the ever changing definition of "remake" you keep using is.

I never mention Civ1, i just said "earlier versions", going by many of the major complaints i've read on social media people don't like the drastic changes that were made in Civ7, that is what i meant by remake.
I don't consider us as getting less product for our money like you seem to believe, for me Civ7 has made the game much more appealing and given us a lot to be thankful for.
Have you read the notes for the upcoming update? if so you will see the game is constantly being improved, not that it was bad to start with though.

 

[Gorbles]

And this is why I didn't want to participate.

And yet you participated, and replied to two out of three posters. Accidentally, hopefully! But at the same time I don't want to act like I'm piling on. In honesty, I was waiting to see what your reply would be.

My baseline is that constructive criticism is always good, and that developers tend to have far more lax parameters than I've ever had when it comes to what counts as constructive. Genuinely. Most / all developers read and listen to far more than most players think. It's a good thing it's not up to me (the same as my job - I'm not afraid to say I'm a very skilled programmer, but I'm not product owner). But at the same time, beating a dead horse ain't gonna bring it back to life.

So there are two aspects to this. One is what the developers read. The other is what other forumgoers read. The former is out of our hands. The latter isn't.

And I'll be frank - constant negativity isn't worthy just because it's negative. It has to be saying something beyond what your fellow critics want to hear.

There's a lot of talk of echo chambers, around and about. Critics should stop to consider it too, from time to time. This forum is for players of the game first and foremost. That's not necessarily exclusionary, its just a simple fact. Pushback happens organically. It happens as a reaction to disagreeable opinions - whatever those opinions are*.

*speaking as someone who has posted very disagreeable opinions before, and will again.

 

[aelf]

In any case all I really wanted to say is that to me being proud that the haters are leaving the forum because no body gives a crap about the game is a pyrrhic victory.

Not to me and many others.

 

[protocol7]

Hehe, I've never actually seen anyone actually embrace a just burn it all down approach. Just please don't DDoS the servers or something.

 

[aelf]

Who are you talking to?

 

[Naokaukodem]

I don't think we should open a sub-forum for complaints. It's not the Administration here. (or shouldn't ) By the way I do not see that many complaints now, maybe because the forum is dead ? They are all gone, so what are you waiting for to discuss your favorite game ? Instead of complaining about complaints.

 

[_hero_]

Maybe just create your own Discord server and invite the positive people? It's free.