Complete Mac Mayania

[frunobulax]

A few notes:
- IMO we don't want Spearmen. None. I'd say JTs should be our military for pretty much this entire age. For only 10 more shields, we get a good attack factor and enslavement.
- CI should never build anything but Settlers. Never. Military units should be left to other cities with Barracks.

Points taken!

- The switch to Philosophy was probably unnecessary - we've pretty much beelined to it, and Writing is so expensive the AI will generally research it very late. We could likely have completed CoL, then done Philosophy to get Republic free.

There's still option to switch to CoL before you play next turn. That was going to take 19, Phil 12 turns when I started.

This is not meant to be confrontational, and they're not huge issues. In my view, a large part of the attraction of SGs is the opportunity to discuss different choices and playing styles to try and really understand them better.

No problem - that's why were all here I hope!

With respect to wonder/prebuild, I'd say no. There aren't any really attractive Wonders available, and the shields would be better spent on JTs/Workers/Settlers.

A Great Library prebuild? (Speaking as a nascent Librarian!)

P.P.P.S. Current expansion should be toward the Furs IMO. Next Settler should maybe even be sent straight there. If not, expand that way more gradually. After the Furs, a city should be founded W-NW of Copan (to get both cows) and use them to start pumping Workers.

Agree re. furs and then found W-NW 2 cows city.

 

[dojoboy]

A few notes:
- IMO we don't want Spearmen. None. I'd say JTs should be our military for pretty much this entire age. For only 10 more shields, we get a good attack factor and enslavement.

Agreed.

- The switch to Philosophy was probably unnecessary - we've pretty much beelined to it, and Writing is so expensive the AI will generally research it very late. We could likely have completed CoL, then done Philosophy to get Republic free. This turns out to be much more powerful than taking CoL with the free tech, as The Republic is by far the most expensive Ancient tech.

Yea, Republic will take a huge chunk of our research time, but we'll have to invest the time. Unless the Iroquois get it first and we take it through a war settlement.

P.S. I felt it necessary to include the above paragraph because I've been burned a couple times by others reading an attack into what I'd intended as friendly discussion. So I wanted to make sure I was clear here.

I would like to propose a rule for any personal conflicts with player comments. Beforehand, we should each make the effort to reply appropriately. Any thing personal should be handled through a PM.

P.P.S. With respect to wonder/prebuild, I'd say no. There aren't any really attractive Wonders available, and the shields would be better spent on JTs/Workers/Settlers.

I would prefer to opt for chancing a SGL rather than prebuilds. There really isn't a wonder we want to invest time on right now. Anything the Iroquios build, we can take through war.

P.P.P.S. Current expansion should be toward the Furs IMO. Next Settler should maybe even be sent straight there. If not, expand that way more gradually. After the Furs, a city should be founded W-NW of Copan (to get both cows) and use them to start pumping Workers. It can be easily set to produce one every 4 turns (just let it grow to 2 and use both cows), which will keep up with CI's Settler production.

There is a settler in the general area, let's use him for the furs.

 

[Beamup]

There's still option to switch to CoL before you play next turn. That was going to take 19, Phil 12 turns when I started.

Unfortunately we lose all the invested research if we do. At this point we're best off finishing Phil and taking CoL.

 

[frunobulax]

Unfortunately we lose all the invested research if we do. At this point we're best off finishing Phil and taking CoL.

Of course (doh!) That tech switch was a real mistake - sorry guys!

 

[Blue Monkey]

I would use settler we have to found city by furs which blocks further Iroq expansion south of the desert; then use next built where that one is now, reinforcing our frontier; Tikal can then build a curragh to transport settler after that around Iroq to NW, I would shoot for Tobacco.

 

[dojoboy]

Tikal can then build a curragh to transport settler after that around Iroq to NW, I would shoot for Tobacco.

Curraghs cannot transport units. We need Map Making inorder to build galleys.

 

[Beamup]

I'd be disinclined to try and settle north of the Iroquois. That would significantly increase the odds of their declaring war and make it much harder for us to fight such a war. Fill in the space between us and them, and then expand south, would be my approach.

And yes, let's use the current settler to grab the furs.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

As I see things getting a city over to the furs is a good idea, and we need to fill in with a couple (3 probably) because we are getting a little 'far flung'.

I believe we need to be prepared for hostilities even more than you do Beamup, and I'm not a warmonger. Iroqouis may be one of the less agressive civs, but this map makes it majorly plain that southern/eastern expansion for them will be much easier than northern/western. With luck they will build that wonder, and that will make it as much ours.

Part of building our military will be more productive cities and that means ones close to CI.

I am little less concerned about the area on the sw peninsula only because we don't seem to have any company there. The barb emcampment there, and no sign of curraghs anywhere else yet says that's our land. The closer area there is quite fertile really.

I'd like to see us moving to being closer to the military limits for our civ, by any definition, the Iro are close to us and both of us seem to be far away from anything else at this point, so 'beating down' the Iro's, whether peacefully or in war should be a mid range goal.

Your land is my land, my land is my land
From the gem rich mountains
To the fur bearing coastlands
the Wheat filled bonus grasslands
to the irrigated plainland
All that land was made just for me

#1 with a bullet on Chichen Itza's all hit radio!

Aoxo

 

[Beamup]

I do note that we should be able to trade for TW and IW as soon as Philosophy finishes - we'll have Writing, Phil, and CoL to trade. This will let us know whether or not they have horses and/or iron.

Which might well be very beneficial. For example, if they didn't have either, but we had Horses, then we'd have JTs and Horsemen to their Archers and Spearmen. While I'm also mostly a builder, if that happened I'd definitely have to say carpe diem and open up a can of

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

One thing before i switch this turn over, Copan is building a granary at this point. Seems like we need a city like this making some of our JT's.

Agree/Disagree?

Aoxo

 

[dojoboy]

If so, it needs a barrack first.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Also, should I trade writing yet?

Aoxo

p.s. Succession games are much different than solo games! (and fun)

 

[Blue Monkey]

Curraghs cannot transport units. We need Map Making inorder to build galleys.

OOPS! Still learning the new units.

RE: peaceful means of conquest. In my solo games I often emphasize early build of culture generators such as temples, because they work better the longer they exist, and help a lot in rolling back the frontier. How will culture fit into our strategy?

 

[dojoboy]

Also, should I trade writing yet?

Aoxo

p.s. Succession games are much different than solo games! (and fun)

I recommend maybe trading Philospohy or CoL to the Iroquois for Iron Working, to at least learn if they have iron. Be sure to select CoL as our free tech once Philosopy is learned.

 

[dojoboy]

How will culture fit into our strategy?

It'll come in as needed I would say. A temple here or there to help with happiness or to expand borders for resources.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Turn 1 - 1500BC

As per Beam's advice MM'd CI to the mined grassland before the turn was over, then moved over to the wheat. Settler in three. South curraugh discovers a goodie hut, warrior moves to open it next turn. Changed Yax from a Spearman to a JT.

We've learned Philosophy, then got awarded CoL. Now it's set to Republic, adjusted science to slider 80% and happiness to 10. Still +2 on revenue and republic is at 46 turns.

Settler heading to river spot just south of the southern fur, worker pair will follow with road. Sent JT from Pal there too and the Spearman is heading there.

Traded Writing to the Iro's for The Wheel and 45 gold. They know iron working at this point.

Turn 2 - 1475

Saxon's gave us map of their region. Stinky Saxon's : P. Good news, learning wheel shows us with a horse near Copan, and another SE of furs city, even better, Iro's look a long ways away from any.

Copan worker will mine a river grassland for third citizen. Iro's will trade CoL for IW, but I held off. They aren't interested in just gold for it.

Not much else at this point.

Turn 3 - 1450

CI creates settler and he heads west. NE settler moves to position to build and what does he see? Iro settler in the square to the immediate SW (which is in square to the N of the horses). If his settler plops here, and I'm sure he will, I will go north one and plop on the fur square on the other river. Anyone else see the storm on the horizon i do? I think we should keep a healthy force near this town.

Turn 4 - 1425

OMG his settler moved west a square, so I plopped and he's gotta move farther. City of Bonampak founded. JT on the way.

North curraugh sees an Aztec and makes contact. Trade alphabet for all 60 of his gold and then trades writing for his IW (which Hiawatha would not do).

Switched Copan to a barracks.

South warrior engages a barb, doesn;t get vet . Two more coming looks like.

Turn 5 - 1400

Pretty quiet, the Iro settler turned to the North and a warrior following came into our land, contacted Hiawatha and requested he observe the sovereignty of our borders.

We still know what they both know and they are broke so no trades.

Turn 6 - 1375

Settler founds Lagotero and so begins our worker factory. First build is a warrior as growth in 7. Iro settler and warrior turn south again.

We still know what they both know and they are broke so no trades.

Turn 7 - 1350

CI produces settler. Sent him to the '4' dot map site. This should tie in Bonampak.

We still know what they both know and they are broke so no trades.

Turn 8 - 1325

Things quiet. Mining a BG up at Tikal. Gems online.

We still know what they both know and they are broke so no trades.

Turn 9 - 1300

Settler in spot, will plop next turn. Worker in Yaxchilan moved to irrigate a plain. Worker to connect road to Lagotero.

We still know what they both know and they are broke so no trades.

Turn 10 - 1275

Quiriqua founded. Tied in nicely to our empire. Settler will pop next turn from CI.
Warrior took out barb encampment, 25g woot! Fort'd to get health back. NW warrior finds a choke to an area off the continent .. wonders if we might close this land off.



Lots of wide open spaces NW of the mountains. Something to think about.

I think this was a VERY productive century for us. Founded 3 cities, brought another luxury online, with another right around the corner. Kept Iro off of the real estate they wanted. Learned Code of Laws, Pholosophy, The Wheel & Iron Working and made our neighbors poor while increasing our treasury by 140+ gold and increased our science by 20%.

Next 10 thoughts.

We have another healthy productive city spot north of Lagobert. lots of BG's.
A temple in Bonampal. Get that other fur, horses and put pressure on the new Iro city behind enemy lines.
Get the military built up more. Cities rounding into shape, I think we are in excellent shape.

All hail Mac Mayamaniacs!

Your humble Aoxo

 

[frunobulax]

What about a move for the Iron/Wheat NE of Bonampak?
Think we should consider a city NW of Yax to begin claiming that peninsula. We can fill out S later of Copan, but leave warrior to keep an eye on barb activity.

 

[dojoboy]

What about a move for the Iron/Wheat NE of Bonampak?
Think we should consider a city NW of Yax to begin claiming that peninsula. We can fill out S later of Copan, but leave warrior to keep an eye on barb activity.

I agree, that iron is essential.

Beamup (up)
dojoboy (on deck)
Serkhon
Blue Monkey
frunobolax
Aoxomoxoa (just played)

 

[Beamup]

Got it. Will probably play tomorrow.

Next city will be NE of Bonampak to claim the iron, followed by the BG area N of Lagartero. A few more Settlers to fill in to the south. I also plan to found an embassy with the Iroquois, especially to get a look at the rest of their territory we haven't seen yet.

Longer-term, we have Horses and Iron (plus our UU), and not much more room to expand. The Iroquois have neither Horses nor Iron, so they can't use their UU. That is a perfect opportunity if ever I saw one. Once we've got Republic, our next pick should be Horseback Riding. Then when we're in Republic, and have JTs and Horsemen, we should crush the Iroquois. Or maybe earlier - should be discussed by the whole team.

So, my priorities:
- Get that Iron!!!
- Expand some more, continue researching Republic.
- Build more JTs to put the hurt on Hiawatha.

Good play by everyone so far, we seem to be in an excellent position.

 

[frunobulax]

The Iroquois have neither Horses nor Iron, so they can't use their UU. That is a perfect opportunity if ever I saw one. Once we've got Republic, our next pick should be Horseback Riding. Then when we're in Republic, and have JTs and Horsemen, we should crush the Iroquois. Or maybe earlier - should be discussed by the whole team.

Making an embassy with Iroq will give us a better idea whether to go sooner or later with