Complete Mac Mayania

[dojoboy]

Then when we're in Republic, and have JTs and Horsemen, we should crush the Iroquois. Or maybe earlier - should be discussed by the whole team.

So, my priorities:
- Get that Iron!!!
- Expand some more, continue researching Republic.
- Build more JTs to put the hurt on Hiawatha.

Would it be wiser to war in despotism to prevent WW from raising its ugly head too soon? I'm thinking the war w/ the Iroquois should be for complete assimilation rather than piece-meal settlements. Then a switch to Republic before encountering the Aztecs. ???

 

[Beamup]

I was thinking two things:
- We'd rather not have our GA while in Despotism.
- A war to the death with the Iroquois would still be reasonably short if we prepared properly. They don't have that many cities.

 

[audsquad]

This is better than the movies. Continued good luck, Mayanians! I'm learning a lot, and appreciate the excellent turn logs and screen shots.

 

[dojoboy]

- We'd rather not have our GA while in Despotism.

Good point. I over looked that.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

In about 35 turns we will have the ability be seriously cranking JT's. They will do 2 things. They will easily overwhelm Iro's. They will also produce for us a big amount of laborers.

I played a solo game in a pangea map in to geta lil experience with the mayans a couple weeks ago and got into a couple conflicts which yielded many laborers. Getting extra settlers going in a few cities to fill in empty areas and destroyed cities will give us a big jump in production because enlarged so much.

Look at this map. We are sort of seeing a relative outline of this landmass, and it would be hard to believe that there is more than the Iro's, Aztecs and us in this area. That means most if not all is somewhere else playing this same game with each other. We are industrious. This means lot and lots of cities and massive expansion. Aztecs will probably be well into swordsmen by the time run seriously up against them. Having an empire generating midieval infantry and knights will make them crumble too.

We also need to get something to the other continent which is obviously to the east. Conquering the seas is in our future.

Aoxo

 

[frunobulax]

I was thinking two things:
- We'd rather not have our GA while in Despotism.
- A war to the death with the Iroquois would still be reasonably short if we prepared properly. They don't have that many cities.

Agree re GA issue - war with Iroq. would be relatively short, so WW is unlikely to be a critical issue when we are in Republic.

How many JTs and Horsemen are we looking at having before we start ?

We should keep an eye on our citizens happiness levels before/as we kick into Republic. I got hit badly with this in a game I'm playing at moment (as Dutch), with cities size 5 and over (I only have spices and ivory as luxuries in my game so far). Also, I switched from Despot to Republic immediately after I had a 'Citizens offer to extend your Palace' event, and it took only 2 turns.

 

[Beamup]

1275 BC (0): We've got a good-sized treasury and a tech lead, so I set science back to 100% and run a deficit of -3 for the time being. There are Inuits near Bonampak, also, I observe - so I send the JT out from there to check it out ahead of deploying a Settler to that area. We are weak compared to Aztecs, strong compared to Iroquois! I still plan on building up the army, though.

I don't care for producing more military in cities without Barracks, so...
Bonampak set to Barracks from JT.
Quirigua set to Barracks from Warrior.
Yax left on JT to get one up there on the border, even if it is Regular.

Found an Embassy with the Iroquois. Promptly get an OH **** moment. They have Horses after all - one tile N of Salamanca! They just haven't hooked them up yet. It is currently garrisoned by 2 Spearmen, and will complete the Pyramids in 27 turns.

Well, this changes everything again. Mounted Warriors will give them a major advantage. If we can hit them before they get HR, though... Definitely not ready for anything yet, so we'll have to see how things develop.

Hit End Turn.

1250 BC (1): Lagartero Warrior->Worker. This site isn't on the river, so we need to irrigate one cow to make it a good Worker factory.
Worker by Tikal starts bringing irrigation up that way via the Wheat.

1225 BC (2): CI Settler->Settler. This one will head up to claim the Iron.
Palenque JT->JT.
Tikal Granary->Barracks.
Yax JT->Barracks. JT moved N to the Gems as an advanced lookout.
Palanque JTs deployed towards Yax, which is well situated to be our jumpoff point.
North Curragh violates Aztec borders to continue its exploration. It'll be out next turn.

1200 BC (3): Monty complains. We apologize.

1175 BC (4): JT finds the Inuit camp. It's defended by a single Warrior.

1150 BC (5): The JT up by the Inuit camp is attacked by two barbarian Horsemen!!! But it couldn't turn out much better, as we defeat both, promote to Elite, and enslave both of them for the loss of a single health bar!

Notice there are 3 units there... those are our new slaves.

Copan JT->JT. Deployed over Lago way as barbarian defense.
Our new slaves start building a road back from the Iron.
We disperse the Inuit, but don't get another slave.

1125 BC (6): CI Settler->Settler. Sent up N of Lagartero to the clump of BG.
Lagartero Worker->Worker

1100 BC (7): Palenque JT->JT.
Furs are hooked up.

1075 BC (8): Scouting Warrior pops a hut, gets 50 gold.

1050 BC (9): Oh no. Iroquois found Oil Springs by the Iron just 3 turns before we get there. Settler sent to the mouth of the river instead. It won't get the Wheat immediately there, but there are floodplains and this is a coastal location so I think it's a stronger long-term play.

Calakmul founded on the BGs. We can fit one more in between there and Tikal. Started on Barracks to make good use of its shields (BGs and a Game tile). Inuit tribes are reported near there, JT dispatched to check it out - they must be near the spices.

1025 BC (10): CI Settler->Settler. I suggest this one be sent to the forest between Calakmul and Tikal, but I leave it unmoved for dojoboy to choose.

Didn't Get Iron founded. Nothing much to build around here, so I start on a Temple to get the Wheat and the second Furs in range.

The Iroquois and Aztecs have Map Making. We can get it from either for either Phil or CoL, but trading with the Iroquois also gets us their 7 gold treasury. I advise this but again leave the decision to dojoboy.

An eventful set of turns here. A bit of a problem at first with the surprise Horses. Continued great, with an Elite JT and a pair of slaves. Went downhill when we lost the Iron.

A couple decisions left for dojoboy. Longer-term, the Iroquois can have Horses as soon as they bother to hook them up (still haven't done that). They could hook up iron, too, but Oil Springs is far enough from their main cities, and through rough enough terrain, that it'll likely take a while.

Which means the major question currently facing us is this: "Should we go to war with the Iroquois, and if so, when?" Given that they have Horses available, but don't yet have HR, I would tend to strike soon. We've got several JTs up on the border already, and will have more shortly. Even a brief spoiler attack, picking up Salamanca, Oil Springs, and their annoying behind-the-lines city, would be highly profitable and put us in position to wipe them out at a time of our choosing.

Roster:
Beamup (just played)
dojoboy (up!)
Serkhon (on deck)
Blue Monkey
frunobolax
Aoxomoxoa

 

[dojoboy]

For some reason, here at school, the images are not showing up. Would it be possible to settle right next to the iron and build a temple to border-push for the iron?

I'll grab the save this evening and play. It's going to be difficult to mobilize in ten turns and declare war. So, in regards to the Iroquois Question, I'll work to station stacks of JT by the target cities. Serkhon may then have the pleasure of attacking.

I'll follow the general consensus on expansion and trade.

 

[Beamup]

Would it be possible to settle right next to the iron and build a temple to border-push for the iron?

No, it's too close.

 

[frunobulax]

Given that they have Horses available, but don't yet have HR, I would tend to strike soon. Even a brief spoiler attack, picking up Salamanca, Oil Springs would be highly profitable ...

Agree. Their unhooked horses changes everything - strike as soon as is practicable - i.e. when we have what we feel we have enough JTs and horsemen.

Getting Elite JTs (and slaves) from barb encounters is a good tactic!

 

[dojoboy]

No, it's too close.

Right, I sometimes do it anyway if the resource is important enough. Only after a temple is buit would it push the Iroquois' border back to there they have a misshapen border, losing the iron. It'll piss the iroquois off of course. Just a thought. If we're warring soon, it's a mute point.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

I think the war should be started in earnest. Looking at the map, I think our attack should be from the city in the floodplain, and then hard to Salamanca. Nothing else they have is developed enough yet to produce well at all.

With our settler factory, we should plan to move in behind the destroyed cities and rebuild. The only way to avoid much GA time in wa is to prosecute the war fast and that will mean a sizeable force.

Aoxo

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

This war is still 30-40 turns or more away, but we need to be planning for it now. We kept pumping settlers from CI, we keep pumping workers from Lago and we keep the expansion, but we should be preparing for this war right now.

Also would like to see a couple JT's out killing the barbs. Free labor a waiting.

Aoxo

 

[dojoboy]

Got it, the save that is.

 

[dojoboy]

Pre-turn: Move settler to location recommended by Beamup. Traded Philosophy to Iroquois for Map Making & 7 gold, again per Beamup's recommendation.

1000 BC (1) -> Copan b. JT, set to JT; Bonampak b. barracks, set to JT; Largartero b. worker, set to worker;

975 BC (2) -> Palenque b. JT, set to JT; Tikal b. barracks, set to JT; moved sliders to 0 - 9 - 1 to off set potential disorders next turn in CI & Copan (gpt stays steady at -6);

950 BC (3) ->

925 BC (4) -> CI b. settler, set to settler; Quirigua b. barracks, set to JT; Kaminaljuyu settled along western coastline between Calakmul & Tikal, set to warrior; moving settler to mouth of river southeast of Bonampak (will envelope horse resource;

900 BC (5) -> Lagartero b. worker, set to worker;

875 BC (6) -> Begin building road to Oil Springs (Iroq.) to expediate war maneuvers and resettlement; Iroquois now have Horseback Riding;

850 BC (7) -> Copan b. JT, set to JT; Palenque b. JT, set to JT; Warrior redlined while attacking barb camp to the northwest; Trade CoL for Horseback Riding w/ Iroquois;

825 BC (8) -> CI b. settler, set to settler;

800 BC (9) -> Researched Republic, set to Mathematics; Tikal b. JT, set to JT; Mayans revolt (6 turns); IBT -> Portugal b. Oracle; a few towns go into disorder, should settle at the start of next turn;

775 BC (10) -> A few towns go into disorder, should settle at the start of next turn; Piedras Neras settled midway between CI & Kaminaljuyu; JT destroys barb camp (25 gold) to our south;

Handover Notes: There are 2-3 JTs stacked near Grand River & Oil Springs - should be our first 2 targets for iron & gems respectively. There are a couple JTs in Yaxchilan that can be used for Grand Rver, taking that total to 4. I usually never go on the offensive in the AA without 5 units minimum for each target city. Due to the revolt for Republic, we will not produce any for 4-5 more turns, sorry Serkhon. We have a settler ready to build at the mouth of the river to Bonampak's southeast on the next turn. This will give us two horse resources. It does not look like the Iroquois have yet hooked up their horse resource, but that could be viewed from an outdated view. We should probably send a JT or a worker up there to update our view. Sliders set at 0 - 9 - 1 and breaking even (anarchy). Neither the Aztecans or Iroquois have anything to trade/sell. Image is of our initial targets. The center town should be approached for the north inorder to avoid the penalty for attacking across rivers. recommend giving Republic to Iroquois before attack, then checking F3 to be sure they're in anarchy before attacking. But, we want to make sure they cannot bring the Aztecs in against us by giving them Republic. Do we give it to both simultaneously?

 

[Serkhon]

So the general idea I'm getting right now is to wait out the Anarchy, trade Republic, then attack with our JTs and then hope that we can pump out enough JTs during our golden age to overrun the Iroquois?

 

[dojoboy]

So the general idea I'm getting right now is to wait out the Anarchy, trade Republic, then attack with our JTs and then hope that we can pump out enough JTs during our golden age to overrun the Iroquois?

I would build up about another 6 - 8 JTs first, then trade Republic. This may not reach fruition in your turns. ???

 

[Serkhon]

Turn 1 750BC
Uaxactun Founded

Turn 2 730BC
Take a Risk with a Curragh to cross a large amount of sea

Turn 3 710BC
ZZZ

Turn 4 690BC
ZZZ

Turn 5 670BC
Warrior Exploring in the West gets attacked by 7 barbarian warriors manages to take down 6 before dying
Chichen Itza riots
We are now a Republic
Iroquois are now building Mausoleum of Mausollos
Iroquois finish The Pyrmaids in Salamanca
Celts finish Statue of Zeus in Entremont
Curragh makes it
Science down to 50% Luxury down to 0% Mathmatics in 5


Turn 6 650BC
Yax Barracks -> Javelin Thrower
Larartero Worker -> Worker
Aztec are building Mausoleum of Mausollos
... Aztecs Finish Mausoleum of Mausollos
Iroquois are building The Great Library

Turn 7 630BC
Palenque Javelin Thrower -> Javelin Thrower
Bonampak Javelin Thrower ->Javelin Thrower
Quirigua Javelin Thrower->Javelin Thrower
Kaminaljuyu Warrior -> Barracks

Turn 8 610 BC
ZZZ

Turn 9 590 BC
Chichen Itza Settler ->Settler
Largartero Worker -> Worker
Calakmul Barracks -> Javelin Thrower
Aztecs are building Temple of Artemis

Turn 10 570 BC
We Complete Mathmatics
Literature in 6
Copan Javelin Thrower-> Javelin Thrower
Tikal Javelin Thrower -> Javelin Thrower
Bad News...



Handover Notes: Everything seems almost ready to go but we have to do it very very soon as you can see from the screen shot. Dojoboy's strategy seems the way to go at this moment.

Roster:
Beamup
dojoboy
Serkhon (just played)
Blue Monkey (up!)
frunobolax (on deck)
Aoxomoxoa

View attachment 114344

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Here's what I see. He's gonna have a few horseman, but not 10's of.

I say get that Iron. Take Oil Springs with a squad of JT's. I'd say have a settler there ready to go. Bam we're in a golden age. Shift all the military production to swordsman.

They will make much better attack on Salamanca. The fortified spearman in a big city are tough cookies. They tend make elite too.

Be patient. Attack too soon, and we might take one city and that's it for the golden age.

I'd like to see us take Oil Springs, Salamanca and the flood plain city.

Trying to wipe them out will take a while.

 

[frunobulax]

We want to make sure they cannot bring the Aztecs in against us by giving them Republic. Do we give it to both simultaneously?

Sounds like a good plan