Concept of a nation.

Originally posted by DinoDoc


There's not a signifigant enough benefit to it in order to make the change.

The benefit would be that all people on this planet would have recognized rights. These rights would be upheld by a court that has jurisdiciton in their country (unlike the current system that claims juristdiction but requires the country in question to voluntarily uphold these rights).
 
"Allan, not if you know that, in Spanish, buck means ****old, (not if I explain in English well), or that your wife goes to bed with other men, and it is one of the bad insults."

I'm aware of that meaning of cabron as well, but at least in Guatemala where I lived (maybe not in Spain though), it is also used as a friendly title among friends. Just like "Que putas?" can mean "what's the f*cking problem?" or "how's it going?" depending on who is saying it to you and what tone they use.

Again, this is in Guatemala, where I spent a year. I've never been to Spain, so I don't know the vernaculars there. I do know that the Spanish of Spain is quite different in some ways from the Spanish of various Latin American countries, though. Like your use of "vosotros"....
 
Sparta, Athens, etc.

Hmm? Athens and Sparta had large stock exchanges and big businesses? Athens and Sparta had Populations of over 5 million? Athens and Sparta were in their millitaristic period in the 20th century?

That was then, this is now.


Anyway Poly is back up, so you and all those other spammer/trollers with nothing to contribute to discussions can go back to from whence ye came.

Edit: Oh, wait it's not. I hope you find somewhere else to go anyway.
 
There was a nation which tried to unify all nations under a total workers freedom
and tried to eliminate nations...

It was called Soviet Union :D
Fortunatly theyre militiary sucked big way with snow tactics. :)
 
The concept of soviet union was not that bad. It was us people who stuffed it up. The main problem was that it was run by dictatorship not elected govt.
If it comes to economics socialism fails when confronted by greedy capitalism and due to corruption.
Eliminate capitalism and corruption and socialism would work just fine.

;)
 
The problems I see with this one world government thing is that we are very very far off from it. We are likely debating what MAY be a real issue 1,000 years from now. People are attached to their nations and aren't going to give that up soon. We are discussing transcending the nation when there are millions of people out there stuck in tribalism.

I would postulate that a more even distribution of wealth, knowledge, and opportunity will actually have to precede a world government rather than be a result of it. If we are working on a democracy, there are parts of the world where they can't even reliably count the number of people they have. Much infrastructure needs to be in place to even begin to contemplate a world government.

The EU will be a test case of sorts to see if they can markedly improve their situation and handle the problems of differing cultures and standards of living. If they can pull it off, other regional blocs may form and expand, but even that is speculation of a high order.

As far as communism working if we eliminate capitalism and corruption....you are talking about changing human nature. It works for ants, not humans.
 
Originally posted by Whiskey Priest
The benefit would be that all people on this planet would have recognized rights.

Like I said earlier thier is no signfigant benefits in place to induce countries to give up thier sovereignty to such a great extent and you've listed nothing to change that POV.
 
"As far as communism working if we eliminate capitalism and corruption....you are talking about changing human nature. It works for ants, not humans."

I said socialism. As far I as I know we should not mix socialism with communism.
Communism failed because of dictators like unlce Stallin. The main idea of communism (to my understanding) is that people live in small communities. Govt of USSR twisted some ideas to justify dictatorships. Communism may work very well in a democratic society.
Of course economy under communism will never be so strong as under capitalism, so what?
Is it better to have 2 rich 50 middle class and 48 starving OR
100 middle class???
 
Originally posted by jedi rat
Of course economy under communism will never be so strong as under capitalism, so what?
Is it better to have 2 rich 50 middle class and 48 starving OR
100 middle class???

False delima. Anyway I'd rather have the economic freedom that goes along with capitalism.
 
"False delima. Anyway I'd rather have the economic freedom that goes along with capitalism."

OK the propotions were not exactly right, but note few things. Even western coutries know how destructive to society as a whole capitalism can be, so we have laws which "adjust that freedom".
Expl. environment protection, limits of monopolies, etc...

And of course as long as you were born in at least average family and your IQ is above average.
 
Hmm, another topic descended into talking about communism. Face it, communism is just so 1848;) :lol:
The arguments on the relative economic features and merits of a perished system do not change certain unalterable facts, namely that a one world government is a best a very minute future prospect, that many people see no problem with belonging to a nation state, and that there are no coherent reasons for its abandonment.

Methinks there is life in the old concept yet:D
 
Appologies for inserting communism there.

The question could be said to come down to where on the capitalism-socialism scale you want to fall. To the original topic, one government can only offer one choice. Having multiple governments allows people the choice of living somewhere else. Looking around at the citizens here, it is apparent that many people appreciate that choice.
 
I am going to veer completely clear of the communist tangent this thread recently entered, and get back to the topic:

The problem with any international government is that for all the perceived and theoretical benefits, humans haven't yet developed structural resources enough for a global government to truly function. Governments provide services, mitigate and represent local and regional issues, and essentially try to balance the needs and desires of each of its constituencies. To date, only the nation-state has successfully accomplished these things, and some can't even quite do that (i.e., Somalia, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc.). Supra-national states like the European Union are still finding out that nation-states can often get things done quicker and more effectively than the bureaucracy in Brussels.

Don't get me wrong - I support the EU and the idea of international cooperative organizations like the UN, but we need to admit that for now at least, their effectiveness is limited. As the British historian Eric Hobsbawm once wrote, "the nation-state just won't go away." Just as nations had to develop and mature through universal education and nationalism in the 19th century that tried to suppress regionalism in order to create modern nation-states, so too does the world have to develop socially, politically and economically to be able to really benefit from a global government. It can't be imposed.

In anthropology we were told that a nation is essentially any large group of people who consider themselves a nation. Any definition that attempts to break it down finer gets hung up on exceptions, so you can't really assume common ethnicity, religion, geography, skin color, history or any other commoninity are completely necessary. If you've got a people who are convinced they're a nation, well then you've got yourself a nation. The British historian John Keegan talked about how a Southern nation developed in the United States that persists still today, despite its failed attempt at independent statehood in 1861-65. A state, on the other hand, is a sophisticated political tool that requires a highly-developed society to use it to its fullest advantage. In the 19th century when they started talking about "Ein volk, ein nation!", they told all those peoples locked up in the creaking medieval empires that they each deserved their own state. The linkage is complete, like it or not, and this linkage is responsible for much of the bloodshed of the 20th century.

Perhaps the world will slowly develop towards some sort of super-state, but I don't think it's possible in our lifetimes. Think of the resentment modern nation-states have to deal with; regional issues (Basqueland, Tyrol, Chiapas, southern Philippines, etc.) , ethnic and religious strife issues, collapse of service (electric & gas power, water, sewage, garbage removal, transportation, welfare, medical, etc. etc. etc.); just imagine the bureaucracy! Also, let's be honest: any international organization is going to have to be led by someone (and will probably be dominated by someone), and whoever it is will always cause resentment elsewhere. The American former Speaker of the House, Tip O'Neill, once said that all politics is local, and he's right. Afghanis will only listen to their local clan chief; will they ever accept orders or laws from some faraway global capital? I think for now we're better off maintaining the nation-states, although tempering them with increasing amounts of international integration and cooperation. If we rush things, it'll just cause a backlash.
 
Originally posted by DinoDoc


Like I said earlier thier is no signfigant benefits in place to induce countries to give up thier sovereignty to such a great extent and you've listed nothing to change that POV.

How do we convince nations to recognize the rights of it's citizens? UN sanctions (mainly economic) or we could withdraw their seats from the general assembly. Worked against the Afrikaners, it can work against anyone.
 
That may work once they join, but are you going to sanction them if they don't join in the first place? What if not joining is the will of the people, say a national referendum?
 
Originally posted by knowltok3
That may work once they join, but are you going to sanction them if they don't join in the first place?

Yes.

And It isn't likely that people will vote agianst having rights, but who knows, wierder things have happened.
 
Originally posted by Whiskey Priest
How do we convince nations to recognize the rights of it's citizens?

How do we convince nations to give up total control over thier territory? That is the question that you have to answer before talking about the wonders of a one world government and how it will lower the standard of living in some of these countries.
 
Originally posted by Whiskey Priest


Yes.

And It isn't likely that people will vote agianst having rights, but who knows, wierder things have happened.

So what you are telling me is that your one world government will be imposed whether a particular nation or people want it or not What if the nation in question is equiped with intercontinental balistic missles? Are you still going to imperiously impose sanctions? Or did you only have in mind poor third world countries run by corrupt dictators? And what if the sanctions don't work, are you going to invade and conquer the nation?

Do you other one world government advocates go along with this? It sounds like world conquest by more devious means to me.
 
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