Concerns about continents

[stealth_nsk]

THe thing I don't like is - even on continents map, continents are still not equal to landmasses, often containing 2continents per landmass.

And, of course, would like to see more natural borders between continents.

 

[SJSerio]

THe thing I don't like is - even on continents map, continents are still not equal to landmasses, often containing 2continents per landmass.

And, of course, would like to see more natural borders between continents.

I won't mind so much as long as it varies. Iow, one landmass is large and divided into 3 or 4 continents, another is small and counts for just one continent, a third landmass may be medium and is split into 2 continents, and maybe a large island with some nearby smaller islands group together to make up another "continent".

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[kaspergm]

I do like the idea of continents on paper, and the "1 per 2 civs" number does seem pretty reasonable - on a normal continents map in Civ5, you'd have two land masses with ~4 civs on each for normal size map, so dividing that into two parts seems fair. I do feel that on e Pangaea map, you could have less continents than normally, so that a normal size Pangaea would perhaps consist of only 3 subcontinents for 8 players.

HOWEVER, what I don't like is the separation line between these continents seems to be completely arbitrary with absolutely no geographical features to mark the line. Furthermore, the fact that your scout almost magically discovers that he is on a new continent when he crosses this imaginary line is for me extremely immersion breaking.

So what I really had hoped they would do was to program the map-maker so that continents divisions would coincide either with major mountain ranges or ocean inlets and narrow land bridges (á la north/south America division). It should be very doable to include such a feature programming wise, and it would make the separation of such landmasses into sub-continents meaningful. As it is now, it comes across more like a gimmick and an ill-excecuted idea imo.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Yes, I'm definitely concerned with the way they are divided based on the videos. Seems to be completely random with no logic behind it whatsoever. I expected better of them.

It shouldn't be that hard at all to at least make the separation on narrow...ish passes and or mountain ranges.

if (tiles <= 5 || mountain > 5) {
seperate continents;
}

 

[stealth_nsk]

Map scripts could be fine-tuned quite late in game development cycle. Hope that's the case.

 

[kaspergm]

Yes, I'm definitely concerned with the way they are divided based on the videos. Seems to be completely random with no logic behind it whatsoever. I expected better of them.

If shouldn't be that hard at all to at least make the separation on narrow...ish passes and or mountain ranges.

if (tiles <= 5 || mountain > 5) {
seperate continents;
}

Yeah, or they could go the other way: Divide the continents, and then place mountain and ocean tiles accordingly. The latter would guarantee continents of appropriate size and number.

But let's hope that is a feature just not implemented yet, like stealth says.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I'm not too keen on too balanced appropriate continents. I want my Europe and Asia on the same landmass and Australia somewhere there where sun doesn't shine I really don't like the idea of 2 civs per continent with continents being about the same size. Let there be mini continents with one civ and bigger continents with up to 3-4 civs as well as somewhat balanced same size...ish continents like N- and S-Americas with 2 per each. Hope the 2 per continent is just a loose average.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

Yeah, when they said they were dividing up pangaea maps into smaller continents, I approved: that makes sense.

It makes no sense at all to me. Isn't the point of the Pangea map that there is a single continent called Pangea?

 

[stealth_nsk]

It makes no sense at all to me. Isn't the point of the Pangea map that there is a single continent called Pangea?

No, it consisted of several tectonic plates, which moved away afterwards.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

No, it consisted of several tectonic plates, which moved away afterwards.

There is a difference between tectonic plates and continents, at least in the common sense. A continent is a big landmass (which may or may not consist of a single plate) that people have chosen to define as a continent. If Civ uses the labels 'Africa', 'Australia', etc. it uses that common definition. By that same definition Pangea was a continent.

It would make sense to call the single continent on a pangea map 'Pangea', and to call the two continents on the typical map with two continents 'Laurasia' and 'Gondwana'.

 

[JimmyBanks]

America is 1 land mass though, and it's 2 continents. Humans aren't great at being consistent are we...

 

[stealth_nsk]

America is 1 land mass though, and it's 2 continents. Humans aren't great at being consistent are we...

Yes, they made channels to separate Americas and Africa from Asia. Before this there were much less landmasses than continents. Or large land masses, because there are islands...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm not too keen on too balanced appropriate continents. I want my Europe and Asia on the same landmass and Australia somewhere there where sun doesn't shine I really don't like the idea of 2 civs per continent with continents being about the same size. Let there be mini continents with one civ and bigger continents with up to 3-4 civs as well as somewhat balanced same size...ish continents like N- and S-Americas with 2 per each. Hope the 2 per continent is just a loose average.

I agree with this. The traditional 6 inhabited continents (by land area size...million km sq)
42
30
25
17
10
9

So the number should be ~1/2 civs, but the biggest one should be ~3 x the size of the smaller ones

 

[ProMeTheus112]

I just hope you can define and randomize the numbers of continents and landmasses. That wasn't a option in Civ5, so every map usually had the exact same structure.

That is a VERY good point. An option for this in map setup would be most excellent.

Yes 1000% agree that makes it so much more fun when you are surprised in exploration and never know what to expect, the discovery feeling! I hope they think of this!! Ideally every map feature can be quite random so that you would find unusual things.

I think it gives a lot more value to exploration in general, you have to think more about making correct choices in exploration and being more proactive with it if you don't know the structure of the map because the implications of discovering some things earlier or later are bigger, it gives difficulty to exploration too. There may be a cost such as luck factor increase but I think it's worth it for sure for civ. It's exciting to explore a unique world and change your perspective on it as you know more.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

It would make sense to call the single continent on a pangea map 'Pangea', and to call the two continents on the typical map with two continents 'Laurasia' and 'Gondwana'.

Europe is distinguished from Africa by a sea, and from Asia by two mountain ranges. India is a subcontinent thanks to a mountain range. North America and South America are distinguished by the end of an isthmus. And seas define everything else. Where there are obvious splits and geographical divides between regions, it's absolutely rational to divide a continent like pangaea into multiple continents. If it's one giant circle, i would agree with you, but that's not how continents form IRL or in game.

And to be nitpicky, Pangaea, Laurasia and Gondwana are all super-continents, not continents.

 

[Uberfrog]

I just hope you can define and randomize the numbers of continents and landmasses. That wasn't a option in Civ5, so every map usually had the exact same structure.

Something like this would be ideal. Given that it's a Civ tradition to be able to control sea level, controlling continent size would be an obvious fix. Two civ per continent seems a bit small for regular map sizes.

It would be nice to see mountains and deserts placed between in-game continents. But if you think the real world definitions of continents like Asia, Europe and North and South America are anything other than arbitrary, you're barking up the wrong tree .

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

But if you think the real world definitions of continents like Asia, Europe and North and South America are anything other than arbitrary, you're barking up the wrong tree .

Those definitions are somewhat arbitrary:

• Why are Australia and Antarctica continents and Greenland not?
• Why do some say America is one continent and others say it's actually two?
• More general: how can the continent count vary between 4 and 7?
• To which continent do islands that are somewhere in the sea between two or three continents belong?
• I learned in school that the Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco is the highest mountain in Europe. It turns out I was misinformed, it is Mount Elbrus. Probably I was informed on the basis of another definition of the border between Europe and Asia. There have been lots of different real world definitions of that border. If you just look at the shape and distribution of land masses, it makes little sense to separate Europe as a continent.

 

[Uberfrog]

Those definitions are somewhat arbitrary:

• Why are Australia and Antarctica continents and Greenland not?
• Why do some say America is one continent and others say it's actually two?
• More general: how can the continent count vary between 4 and 7?
• To which continent do islands that are somewhere in the sea between two or three continents belong?
• I learned in school that the Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco is the highest mountain in Europe. It turns out I was misinformed, it is Mount Elbrus. Probably I was informed on the basis of another definition of the border between Europe and Asia. There have been lots of different real world definitions of that border. If you just look at the shape and distribution of land masses, it makes little sense to separate Europe as a continent.

This is exactly my point. It's because our definitions of continents are shaped by political and cultural differences as much as they are by geographical and geological ones.

This is why it would be good for Civ VI to roughly approximate the current state of continents so that large landmasses are divided, so we can have analogous situations to transcontinental trade routes like those from North Africa to the Middle East, European colonies in Asia, and Napoleonic conquests of "continental" Europe.

It would be nice to have some eye-catching features like mountain chains, rivers, or deserts that delineate them, but it's never going to be anything other than arbitrary.

 

[SJSerio]

This is exactly my point. It's because our definitions of continents are shaped by political and cultural differences as much as they are by geographical and geological ones.

This is why it would be good for Civ VI to roughly approximate the current state of continents so that large landmasses are divided, so we can have analogous situations to transcontinental trade routes like those from North Africa to the Middle East, European colonies in Asia, and Napoleonic conquests of "continental" Europe.

That also brings to mind that I DO hope for the option for Cultural Starts in map setup... Where civs of "like" cultures tend to start near each other (on the same "continent"). Those groupings (in my mind) should be:

• European/ North European
• Mediterranean (Greco/Roman)
• Middle Eastern
• Sub Sahara (African)
• East European (Slav?)
• Central Asian
• East Asian
• Native America (North)
• Mesoamerican (South and Central)
• Oceanic (Pacific)

That list takes into account future Civilizations and also apply to City-States. Again, an OPTION that can be toggled during setup if the player chooses.

 

[Uberfrog]

That also brings to mind that I DO hope for the option for Cultural Starts in map setup... Where civs of "like" cultures tend to start near each other (on the same "continent").

Agreed. The new continents mechanic would seem ideally suited to an option like this. Even if it's not included in the base game, I'm sure we will see it in a mod - there has been an excellent mod along these lines for Civ V for some time.