Concerns for BNW

[apocalypse105]

Indeed, I'm an Emperor player and 99% of the time I understand exactly what happened to trigger a DoW. These stories of AI's DOW'ing for "no reason omg" are clearly missing components.

Jep but there is no way to prevent it so you might as well ignore international land trade routes in brave new world because you're neighbours covet you're land

Don't you see the problem

 

[lrdscorpio]

Jep but there is no way to prevent it so you might as well ignore international land trade routes in brave new world because you're neighbours covet you're land

Don't you see the problem

No.

I think avoiding war in this game is already too easy outside of Diety but Diety is not where the game is balanced around, that is a hyper difficulty for a niche group of players.

If anything, protecting trade routes makes playing on non-pangea maps more interesting which is sorely needed

 

[The QC]

It seems to me that some people overestimate AI aggression.

As far as I can tell, by building a large army, staying peaceful and using the declaration of friendship reasonably*, you have very high chances of avoiding any war.

But you do need a large army - the needed size of course depends on the difficulty level (because they have bigger armies on different levels; I guess on Deity there's no way to avoid war because of this).

* Basically, make declaration of friendship with most civs, but don't make it with a known pariah (reminds me of high school!). You can check out the current declarations in the diplomacy screen and you'll see easily who is part of the friendship circle jerk and who has no friends, so it's quite easy to know who to avoid.

 

[Seek]

Jep but there is no way to prevent it so you might as well ignore international land trade routes in brave new world because you're neighbours covet you're land

Don't you see the problem

As I explained in my precious post in this thread, sending a land TR is what you'll want to do ASAP because it gives a positive diplo modifier, mitigating the "covet lands" negative modifier (assuming you don't need it for a domestic TR).

Also, what the QC said.

 

[Gali]

I'm not concerned trade will be shut off for good. Unless you are surrounded by extreme warmongers that shouldn't happen. I am concerned trade will increase frustration at AI stupidity and punish players because the AI doesn't know what peace is. I don't want to build enough military to scare the AI because I don't need that much military to beat it. Though with trade routes if you want to send them out you will need a stronger military. I just hope with trade route diplo bonuses we see more differentiation in AI neighbors. More peaceful ones will take the positive and maintain peace unless you antagonize them. I am also worried about late game with long sea routes. That is a lot of sea to cover and AI scouts can be anywhere on the water. With no reliable escort mechanic yet your routes will be left to chance or a large fleet with monotonous micromanagement.

Also slightly worrying is late game Ideology and WC. If your neighbors go another ideology and you flood them with unhappiness the diplo penalties could be nasty. Add in possible unhappiness from WC resolutions and I can easily see a diplomatic revolution in the late game. That is the point of those mechanics but it could easily lead to a dangerous situation for a builder's trade routes. Though once you get artillery war is so pathetic unless you're on immortal or maybe emperor this will probably be just an inconvenience.

Also remember you can't send production until you have a workshop so all early internal routes will be food. I have actually been plotting out trade routes in a number of starts recently and have found decent access to at least one every time. The best start for trade for me at least on Pangaea is a corner near coast with CS behind you. The access to them can't be blocked. You can more easily protect them and you get easy access to the coast for sea trade.

I remember in several of the recent articles the author's said they just dominated the WC for the whole game and the AI did nothing to stop them. I know that they were playing on lower levels but isn't the point of the WC to attack runaways. I shudder to think what Alex or Siam or other strong CS lovers will be able to do with the WC.

 

[The QC]

I don't want to build enough military to scare the AI because I don't need that much military to beat it.

You aren't the only person I've seen with this attitude. Basically, you want the game to change something in order to achieve a certain result, instead of adjusting your play-style to obtain that result with the tools that the game already provides. Sure, it's your prerogative, but if it's detrimental to your own enjoyment of the game I think you're just cutting your nose to spite your face.

I also just don't agree with what you seem to suggest there. You want to never build an army and never be attacked.

I'm sorry, but I'd hate that. All wars being controlled by the player would be boring. The AIs SHOULD decide to start wars when they think it will be profitable. The player SHOULD be worried about his neighbors and he SHOULD be thinking about how to keep the peace if he wants to. This makes the game more interesting.

One thing that I agree about is that the AI should be less confident about their combat ability and they should acknowledge that, with an equal number of troops, they are actually in inferiority.

 

[Gali]

Its not that I don't want to be attacked. In the game I brought up I was double teamed by 2 of my 3 neighbors and just beat them off. I wasn't complaining about that. Like I said earlier if I didn't want the AI to attack me I'd play on a lower difficulty. What I don't want is to be forced to severely weaken or kill off my neighbors and be strongly militaristic just to use the peaceful trade mechanic. If I have to cripple Montezuma just to have him acknowledge defeat and open up my trade routes that will annoy me. The fact that Monty will attack me is just part of civ. If this is limited to warmonger Ai then it will be part of a map and I won't find it as bad. I do foresee the early AI swarm shutting down trade routes for awhile as its hard to control space against those numbers.

I don't find war all that fun in Civ 5. In my last game Dido attacked me with no warning at all. No problem at all it was my lack of scouting and it wasn't a backstab. I had managed to have peace with just my starting warrior who had become a spearman. No that is not the level of military I am talking about I usually build a number of archers. That was due to my Inca neighbor going wonder spammy and Alex on the other side of the Pangaea going nuts and drawing all the aggro. I also avoided antagonizing Dido by abandoning a city site when I saw it was close to her core. She walked up an African forest elephant alone and then suicided it onto my pike. Then she led her army with her only siege unit. That died she moved in and as soon as she got in position she retreated. What a victory I felt so much accomplishment at holding off an attack with nothing. In Civ 4 I am dead.

Building a stronger military is going to happen and I will just adjust and focus on early internal trade routes when hammers are tightest. I am worried that any diplo revolutions will require me to react far more aggressively than I want.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Will ideology change be allowed? I think in cases when a strategy change urges.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

Will ideology change be allowed? I think in cases when a strategy change urges.

u can olny change your chosen ideology when the empire is unhappy