Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by blade117, Jun 14, 2009.
No, it's Grammar Nazism. You Grammar Nazi.
I wonder which changes does the new patch bring... I believe the most noticeable change will be a stop in current updates for FF; but probably with new features this would mean returning to Vanilla.
Oh wait a sec, I thought what you meant by "Fall Further+" was the unofficial patch that's out.
In that case, I'd like my high-five back please.
I read in another thread that Kael likes the new DLL changes, which apparently make more things editable. I also believe these editable things are graphic-related, so I expect some shiny new effects coming soon.
I always thought PPQ is dyslexic. I doubt he can help it.
I didn't mean to abuse anyone. I just don't know dyslexic people in my real life => my scepticism. Again, I didn't mean to harm anyone's tender heart.
I am not, I am simply a bored 20 year old colledge student that has english as his 4th language.
So a few errors tend to creep up here and there.
And besides, the More vs Much was not an error but a deliverate misuse on my part.
It was intended to show that the word More, even when used in positions that it does not perfectly fit into is still good! More = better!
Ha, sorry then, my bad!
I know exactly what you mean. That's my problem with FF; I would play it, but there's a lot of stuff that's unnecessary. I tried building the Tweakmod to be the philosophical opposite of this -- well planned changes to existing features, and proper re-introduction of removed mechanics (like Cult of the Dragon).
Base FfH + one of the AI enhancement modmods = best.
Seriously, BetterEconomy turns every AI into the Hippus AI. The computers are, perhaps, too good at what they do.
I prefer Skyre's, but w/e. It's definitely worth giving both a try.
Wow, I never expected this thread to a0 get this long and b) involve an argument over something as irrelevant (sp?) as grammar/word use.
It different horses for different courses. FfH is by and large finished. There'll be an update for 3.19no doubt and maybe some balance, art and bug tweaks, but don't expect major gameplay changes.
Of the two main mods out there: Fall Further adds a *lot* of new fatures, some of which are better than others. Even if you aren't a modder, you can help by feeding back your opinions on game balance, which new features work, etc. The vast proliferation of features also increases the likelihood of unusual interactions and, sadly, bugs and glitches. If you want a vast welath of new material head here.
Orbis is more about quality than quantity. There are fewer new features, but they tend to be more polished. More focus has been placed on the world, which is why the Leaders Enhanced (in-depth which reflects the major and minor characters of Erebus) feels "right" for Orbis. I like to think of it as Fall Further Refined.
Having played and enjoyed both Orbis and FF, I must say I find Orbis provides a much more different gaming experience than both FfH and FF. I blame it on espionage, great general points from combat and the corporations. That said, I do not think FF vs Orbis is more quantity vs quality than gaming experience1 vs gaming experience2.
Well, have some time to kill, so I'll unlurk.
Lately, I've been playing FF+, myself. And I wouldn't call it a modmod that needlessly adds just more (MOAR!).
Generally, I'm not a fan of 'More X' mods in Civ4. Why add 12 more (MOAR!) religions, if they're all the same except for an icon? Why do you need 200 new civs when they're all essentially the same except for a UU? Everything just gets totally diluted.
The wonderful thing with FF (And FF+) is that what they add is generally meaningful. I almost find it hard to play without the mastercraft buildings, or the ability to build improvements you don't have the tech for at a slow rate (since I always seem to get my hands on too many workers in the beginning).
The added civs don't feel like something bland that's been tacked on (though admittedly with the newer stuff seeming to raise the bar, civs like the Dural could use some love). It's because effort has been made to give them all a different vibe. Played a Mechanos game recently, on an Erebus map, and it was totally different than any previous time I've played that map. And I don't think I've ever felt so evil as with the D'Tesh. There's something that seems way more malicious about purposefully spreading your dead and blighted lands than just having hell terrain passively creep outward.
In any case, I'd try next to everything. The only real downside to starting with FF is that there's more (MOAR!) stuff to learn. If you can handle that.. then there's really no reason not to..
Haha, I love how many people are suggesting my mod(modmod). Wish I could take credit for those two civs, but I've just tweaked them.
Surprised noone has mentioned it yet, because this is very important.
do NOT update BTS to 3.19 if you wish to play modmods. I'm not sure which are compatible with it yet. Base FFH apparently is, but FF is not yet, and so FFPlus is not either. Xienwolf is working hard inbetween other commitments to finish 3.19 compatibility.
Thanks guys for liking my only new civ so far
And I am going to steal some of your changes Valkrionn, but have to finish updating to 3.19 first.
I do not think saying FF is quantity and Orbis is quality is right. From my perspective, FF team adds a lot of experimental stuff and not all of it works equally well at start.
I steal shamelessly some of it, and it sometimes gets a bit more refined (or broken ) in the process.
I am more conservative with adding new things - which has good sides (does it REALLY improve gameplay?) and bad ones (it might look right, but I am not sure... well, do it later... - Opera has heard it a lot of times already )
Orbis started as tweaking/economic modmod with an additional aim to bring some BtS stuff to FfH (which sticked to some vanilla concepts) and I try to keep that in mind
I did simillar comparision as the one below, but a long time ago. It is my perspective, and I do not have time to play much either of the mods - just dig in the code. Also, I know Orbis the best so the other lists are not complete
Espionage (BtS, soon upgraded to superspies mod)
Great Generals (from combat xp, with special military academies, including knight order(s))
Forts (and fort commanders) for claiming area and improving defense (added to FF+)
Guilds (I think more developed than in FF)
Changed tech tree
Changes to improvements (forester's lodge, yield changes)
Priests with set number of spells, not learning like mages
Mechanos (but added to FF+)
Animal dens and totems
Flavoured Doviello - beasts and werewolves (independent deveploment in FF+, some simillarities, some differences)
Minor Leaders (there is an old modmod for FfH by notque and up-to-date one for FF by Valkrionn)
Some civ-specific flavour (unique pagan temples and such)
Illians cooling terrain (Flavourmod, will probably get to FF soon), settlements much less limited
Reintroduced from old FfH versions:
Cult of the Dragon as an unadoptable religion (why mess with guild if there is perfectly good mechanics for it already)
Polearm line (and rebalanced combat lines, especially naval units)
Orcs can get normal champions etc.
Decimal xp and passive xp gain
Improvements slowly buildable without the required tech
Master buildings and masterwork weapons promotions
Cualli civ (merged with Mazatl in Orbis)
other civs flavoured
Forgot other, but there are quite a few things
Both Orbis and FF (from FF):
Ranged attacks for siege, archery and naval units
Barbarians separated into orcs, animals and demons (same features)
Gone to hell victory condition
Scions of Patria (quite simillar and approved by Tarqueline, mostly leader and spell changes)
Mazatl (joined with cualli in Orbis)
Enhanced invisibility system
Master system (every summon linked to specific unit)
Elohim pilgrimage gives traits for visiting unique features (just spiritual trait in Orbis, many more in FF)
As above, do not remeber what else...
For FF: generally reworked or tweaked races, unique mechanics for all races.
Example of Elohim:
Tolerant became Conqueror leader trait, now it's for Decius (and probably someone else, I don't remember). Elohim don't have it.
Elohim instead gain traits for visiting unique features. Also they get -1 attack strength for all units outside of their cultural borders, so they became a less warmongering civ than others.
FF has Ranged attacks for archers/siege/naval. And training buildings provide passive xp. And wonders are shared better between teams, like Guild of hammers gives a free forge in all cities of all members of a team when one builds it.
FF also has Mazatl/Cualli, unique popups with quote/picture for every Great Person. More random events, tweaked amutrites, sidar, malakim, svartalfar, doviello
And most importantly of all, FF has the awesomely talented Xienwolf as a core team member
Separate names with a comma.