grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
finally, here's the bug report -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87625Longasc said:
Conquest 03: First Spoiler (end of ancient age)
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
al_thor
Prince
COTM03: Open Class
As usual, I am torn between being a Builder and a Conquerer. I can never seem to dedicate myself to one or the other. Probably why my scores are mediocre.
Anyway:
Set Tech path to: Pottery, Writing, Philosophy (going for Monarchy as free tech).
Build some Curroughs & warriors for exploration. Meet all Civs by middle of AA. Trading puts me ahead in the Tech race.
India spreads like cockroaches. And then they get the Pyramids and spread like diseased cockroaches. Incredible.
I establish embasies with most of the civs. Several declare war on me for not giving in to demands. I form alliances to get as many as possible into War Mode. I don't even build one Offensive unit. Russia is allied with me against Ottoman's. Netherlands are allied with me against Persia. India wants too much for alliance or even ROP. He is happy to expand like a mad man, and worries me greatly with his size. I don't know why he does not demand tech from me - I have no deals at all with him.
Fours turns to completing the ToZ, I am now at war with Russia, Carthage, Dutch. I am allied with Ottoman's and Persia. Persia is huge but Technologically challenged. I have Iron hooked up but no Swords. Horses are secured but a long way from being hooked up. India finishes the Great Library. India signs alliance with Russia against me
I finally build my FIRST offensive unit!! (He is quickly dispatched by Regular Indian Archer).
He takes 2 or 3 workers and pillages some roads, but my Spears hold him back (I have a city at the pinch-point). A great Leader is born from one of my valliant Elite Spears. He is in great risk of being destroyed, as I am down to 1 Elite Spear and 1 Veteran Spear in that city, and India is coming with Horse, Sword, and Archer forces. My Droman also sees a bunch of Midevil Infantry rolling out of Indian cities on the way to the front. In the Pinch City, I rush build Spear and then Archer and then Walls and back to more Spear. India is held off for now, and my Leader is relatively safe
I have finished the ToZ and also triggered my Golden Age with a (rare) Droman victory. I have a couple of Pikes on the way to fortify the Pinch-Point City, as well as a couple of Midevil Infantry. I plan to make an Army out of Ancient Cavalry. I am also 7 turns away from Chivalry, with a small pre-build set for Knights Templar - I should get it with the extra shields coming in from the Golden Age.
I don't know the exact numbers right now, but India is AT LEAST 4 times my Size (maybe even 5 times) and Score and Culture. However, I will not end this war until he is decimated and I own the Pyramids (Great Library will be obsolete by then) and most if not all of his land. Then I will continue with Russia. I am dead last in score and culture, and I think Land Area as well. I hold a Tech advantage by the skin of my teeth.
RNG Blues -
I lost 4 or 5 Curroughs and 4 Dromans
to lowly Barbarian galleys.
I lost a Sword, 2 Archers (1 Elite), a Veteran Spear, and 2 Midevil Infantry (1 Elite) to Regular Indian Archers. I watched as a red-lined Regular Indian Warrior took out a stack of fortified Barbarian Warriors.
As usual, I am torn between being a Builder and a Conquerer. I can never seem to dedicate myself to one or the other. Probably why my scores are mediocre.
Anyway:
Set Tech path to: Pottery, Writing, Philosophy (going for Monarchy as free tech).
Build some Curroughs & warriors for exploration. Meet all Civs by middle of AA. Trading puts me ahead in the Tech race.
India spreads like cockroaches. And then they get the Pyramids and spread like diseased cockroaches. Incredible.
I establish embasies with most of the civs. Several declare war on me for not giving in to demands. I form alliances to get as many as possible into War Mode. I don't even build one Offensive unit. Russia is allied with me against Ottoman's. Netherlands are allied with me against Persia. India wants too much for alliance or even ROP. He is happy to expand like a mad man, and worries me greatly with his size. I don't know why he does not demand tech from me - I have no deals at all with him.
Fours turns to completing the ToZ, I am now at war with Russia, Carthage, Dutch. I am allied with Ottoman's and Persia. Persia is huge but Technologically challenged. I have Iron hooked up but no Swords. Horses are secured but a long way from being hooked up. India finishes the Great Library. India signs alliance with Russia against me
I finally build my FIRST offensive unit!! (He is quickly dispatched by Regular Indian Archer). He takes 2 or 3 workers and pillages some roads, but my Spears hold him back (I have a city at the pinch-point). A great Leader is born from one of my valliant Elite Spears. He is in great risk of being destroyed, as I am down to 1 Elite Spear and 1 Veteran Spear in that city, and India is coming with Horse, Sword, and Archer forces. My Droman also sees a bunch of Midevil Infantry rolling out of Indian cities on the way to the front. In the Pinch City, I rush build Spear and then Archer and then Walls and back to more Spear. India is held off for now, and my Leader is relatively safe
I have finished the ToZ and also triggered my Golden Age with a (rare) Droman victory. I have a couple of Pikes on the way to fortify the Pinch-Point City, as well as a couple of Midevil Infantry. I plan to make an Army out of Ancient Cavalry. I am also 7 turns away from Chivalry, with a small pre-build set for Knights Templar - I should get it with the extra shields coming in from the Golden Age.
I don't know the exact numbers right now, but India is AT LEAST 4 times my Size (maybe even 5 times) and Score and Culture. However, I will not end this war until he is decimated and I own the Pyramids (Great Library will be obsolete by then) and most if not all of his land. Then I will continue with Russia. I am dead last in score and culture, and I think Land Area as well. I hold a Tech advantage by the skin of my teeth.
RNG Blues -
I lost 4 or 5 Curroughs and 4 Dromans
to lowly Barbarian galleys.I lost a Sword, 2 Archers (1 Elite), a Veteran Spear, and 2 Midevil Infantry (1 Elite) to Regular Indian Archers. I watched as a red-lined Regular Indian Warrior took out a stack of fortified Barbarian Warriors.
Jason Fliegel
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
- Messages
- 281
denyd said:
Thanks. I never knew that barbs couldn't trigger the creation of leaders, so withdrawing elite units from barb wars makes sense. Isn't it also the case that barbarians can't trigger Golden Ages?
As for Philosophy, you misread or (more likely) I wasn't very clear in what I posted. I picked Construction as my freebie and then immediately started researching CoL.
Redbad
should have shaved
al_thor said:
You ought to be more consistent with your friends and foes. At higher levels the AI rather remembers you as a foe than as a friend if you've been both.
al_thor
Prince
Redbad:
I have NOT gone back on any deals or alliances. I stayed at war for the full 20 turns, cancelled the Alliances and made Peace. I have been very careful about my reputation. No ROP Rape or backstabbing for me.
I have not declared war on anyone this game (yet). It's all come from the AI demanding things from me and I refuse. The people that I am at peace with are more than happy to trade with me - my rep is good.
I have NOT gone back on any deals or alliances. I stayed at war for the full 20 turns, cancelled the Alliances and made Peace. I have been very careful about my reputation. No ROP Rape or backstabbing for me.
I have not declared war on anyone this game (yet). It's all come from the AI demanding things from me and I refuse. The people that I am at peace with are more than happy to trade with me - my rep is good.
al_thor
Prince
If the AI chooses to "hold a grudge", well, so be it. They will all be dead in the end anyway. 
It's Conquest/Domination all the way for me this game baby!
It's Conquest/Domination all the way for me this game baby!
Redbad
should have shaved
al thor:
My rep is not good: i had 2 times peace with gandhi for only 10 turnes (by that time I had regrouped). But my long lasting friendships with the Dutch (I have somehow a weak spot for them) and with Carthage kept them allways polite or gracious. Russia has been my friend too, but she had accidently build one city on my parish. After I insisted that I should manage that city, she never forgave me and stayed furious nearly all the time.
I'm going for space, so my rep isn't al that important either.
My rep is not good: i had 2 times peace with gandhi for only 10 turnes (by that time I had regrouped). But my long lasting friendships with the Dutch (I have somehow a weak spot for them) and with Carthage kept them allways polite or gracious. Russia has been my friend too, but she had accidently build one city on my parish. After I insisted that I should manage that city, she never forgave me and stayed furious nearly all the time.
I'm going for space, so my rep isn't al that important either.
Here is what I noted during my turns. Pretty random events that I noted. I stop when I find Persia instead of right when I get to the Middle Ages. I will also attach a couple of screenshots, also taken at random. I think I will be submitting this game unlike a number of the first posters, although as a loss, as I see no way of catching up in tech. My main mistakes have mostly concerned barbarians and non-focus on military. Although I managed to establish a city at the choke and beyond it, when the time comes (came) I have no way to hold it. But I guess that will have to wait for the next spoiler.
2710 BC - First thing worth noting happens. I meet Russia and India the same turn. India has alphabet, unfortunately, but Russia does not, so I get Warrior Code, Pottery, and Ceremonial Burial for the Alphabet and 3 gold.
2470 BC - Another big round of trading, after meeting the Ottomans and the Vikings the same turn. I manage to even up with most, and leave a few behind, as well as gain over a hundred gold. Will use it to establish embassies and find out who knows who (after getting writing that is). Of course, with writing due in 19, it will be awhile, but it seems like most are unaware of each other, based on the fact that they all had different techs even though they are relatively near. I also discover that most have built three or four settlements, while I have only built one, and will not be building more especially quickly because there does not seem to be any settler factory material. At the very end of my turn, I decide to use a veteran warrior to attack a conscript barb in grassland. Of course, I lost, and can't expand north until I get another warrior. Am pleased, however, to find iron.
2390 - Having serious barb problems, with them coming at me from the north and the south. Also meet Carthage, who gives 95 gold for The Wheel.
2190 - Carthage has Math, but wants more for it than I can get back. I will want it though, as it seems that I am the only civ with Ivory, which creates the possibility of some conquest, which I had pretty much ruled out with this being my first demigod attempt a week and a half after my first emperor attempt.
2150 - Then again, maybe not. India booted me from her territory, and I noticed she is up to six, and I am just about to build my third at or near the choke.
2030 - India picks up Math, meaning Carthage will give it up for Mysticism and Iron Working, which is fine with me. So now I am even with Carthage and India, up on everyone else, and have 431 gold, while everyone else except India, who has apparently been barb hunting, has 0.
1990 - Scandinavia somehow gets writing, seven turns before me. I decide to take a chance and don't trade with him to get it, hoping he won't trade it around (not much to trade).
1950 - Decide to start Adrianople on SoZ. Probably a bad move at this point, but I could use some free units, and the earlier I get it, the more I get. I may switch it to Caesarea instead though. I also lost one Curragh last turn to barbs, while another was victorious.
1830 - Lose a settler to barbs, because I sent a warrior as escort instead of spearman. Adrinople threatened.
1725 - Though with the barbarians, this game has gone from bad to depressing, there is one bright note. The Russians and the Ottomans have contact, and the the Scandinavians and the Carthaginians have contact, but are at war, so I can pretty well control who knows what for a little while longer. I still don't know the last civ (Persia according to F10), though.
1650 - I have lost another settler to barbs, and am in big trouble. I hope I make it to the middle ages.
1000 - Carthage is easily the tech leader, already in the middle ages. I am working on Currency at the 50-turn rate, and I guess Scandinavia is done with researching, after a short burst. I have tons of gold, but only six cities and a settler. Overall, I am in terrible shape, and would probably be getting close to colonizing another island if not for my blunder with the barbarians. I think I will be trapped here, and eventually eaten by the Indians.
900 - The Dutch are coming to settle my island!
850 - For some reason, the Dutch galley was never attacked by barbarians, so I was surprised when a barbarians galley came and sank my Dromon. It only lasted two turns.
690 - Galleys, presumably with settlers, are swarming. I may have a small advantage in settling elswhere in that I know where everything is, but I failed to get everything north of the choke point. I traded into the Middle Ages and got both gov techs for all my money, pretty much. Got Fuedalism for free tech, and made all my money back plus a little extra, and picked up monotheism. I am also preparing to remove the Dutch from my island, though that still leaves Indian settlements and a Russian settler. Even though I have the gov techs, though, it is not at all worth it. Support costs in republic would eat me up, and I would rather go republic for commerce bonus and my lack of warring. I would like to only make one switch, so I will just learn Engineering at the 50-turn rate and hope I can expand a bit before making the switch to republic.
610 - Lost my second dromon to barbs, this time I was attacking, and the barb again didn't lose any hp. I did manage to destroy the Dutch settlement without loss, and have yet to see a response.
IT - India demands Monarchy, I give it up without hesitation. I would be destroyed in a matter of turns if India decided she wanted me gone. I am waiting on SoZ so I don't have to be so submissive, but I have a feeling it won't make a huge difference.
570 - Finally found Persia, though I can't talk to them yet. Next turn, will see where they are.
First screenshot (choke.jpg) shows the Ottomans defense of the chokepoint on their continent, which I was surprised to see so early. Next two are pretty self explanatory, my empire at 1000 B.C., and my empire at 2800 B.C., the year Adrianople was founded.
Edit: Forgot to mention something. The reason it took so long to find Persia was a group of barbarian galleys in the way. Twice I lost curraghs while going towards what would be being Persia.
2710 BC - First thing worth noting happens. I meet Russia and India the same turn. India has alphabet, unfortunately, but Russia does not, so I get Warrior Code, Pottery, and Ceremonial Burial for the Alphabet and 3 gold.
2470 BC - Another big round of trading, after meeting the Ottomans and the Vikings the same turn. I manage to even up with most, and leave a few behind, as well as gain over a hundred gold. Will use it to establish embassies and find out who knows who (after getting writing that is). Of course, with writing due in 19, it will be awhile, but it seems like most are unaware of each other, based on the fact that they all had different techs even though they are relatively near. I also discover that most have built three or four settlements, while I have only built one, and will not be building more especially quickly because there does not seem to be any settler factory material. At the very end of my turn, I decide to use a veteran warrior to attack a conscript barb in grassland. Of course, I lost, and can't expand north until I get another warrior. Am pleased, however, to find iron.
2390 - Having serious barb problems, with them coming at me from the north and the south. Also meet Carthage, who gives 95 gold for The Wheel.
2190 - Carthage has Math, but wants more for it than I can get back. I will want it though, as it seems that I am the only civ with Ivory, which creates the possibility of some conquest, which I had pretty much ruled out with this being my first demigod attempt a week and a half after my first emperor attempt.
2150 - Then again, maybe not. India booted me from her territory, and I noticed she is up to six, and I am just about to build my third at or near the choke.
2030 - India picks up Math, meaning Carthage will give it up for Mysticism and Iron Working, which is fine with me. So now I am even with Carthage and India, up on everyone else, and have 431 gold, while everyone else except India, who has apparently been barb hunting, has 0.
1990 - Scandinavia somehow gets writing, seven turns before me. I decide to take a chance and don't trade with him to get it, hoping he won't trade it around (not much to trade).
1950 - Decide to start Adrianople on SoZ. Probably a bad move at this point, but I could use some free units, and the earlier I get it, the more I get. I may switch it to Caesarea instead though. I also lost one Curragh last turn to barbs, while another was victorious.
1830 - Lose a settler to barbs, because I sent a warrior as escort instead of spearman. Adrinople threatened.
1725 - Though with the barbarians, this game has gone from bad to depressing, there is one bright note. The Russians and the Ottomans have contact, and the the Scandinavians and the Carthaginians have contact, but are at war, so I can pretty well control who knows what for a little while longer. I still don't know the last civ (Persia according to F10), though.
1650 - I have lost another settler to barbs, and am in big trouble. I hope I make it to the middle ages.
1000 - Carthage is easily the tech leader, already in the middle ages. I am working on Currency at the 50-turn rate, and I guess Scandinavia is done with researching, after a short burst. I have tons of gold, but only six cities and a settler. Overall, I am in terrible shape, and would probably be getting close to colonizing another island if not for my blunder with the barbarians. I think I will be trapped here, and eventually eaten by the Indians.
900 - The Dutch are coming to settle my island!
850 - For some reason, the Dutch galley was never attacked by barbarians, so I was surprised when a barbarians galley came and sank my Dromon. It only lasted two turns.
690 - Galleys, presumably with settlers, are swarming. I may have a small advantage in settling elswhere in that I know where everything is, but I failed to get everything north of the choke point. I traded into the Middle Ages and got both gov techs for all my money, pretty much. Got Fuedalism for free tech, and made all my money back plus a little extra, and picked up monotheism. I am also preparing to remove the Dutch from my island, though that still leaves Indian settlements and a Russian settler. Even though I have the gov techs, though, it is not at all worth it. Support costs in republic would eat me up, and I would rather go republic for commerce bonus and my lack of warring. I would like to only make one switch, so I will just learn Engineering at the 50-turn rate and hope I can expand a bit before making the switch to republic.
610 - Lost my second dromon to barbs, this time I was attacking, and the barb again didn't lose any hp. I did manage to destroy the Dutch settlement without loss, and have yet to see a response.
IT - India demands Monarchy, I give it up without hesitation. I would be destroyed in a matter of turns if India decided she wanted me gone. I am waiting on SoZ so I don't have to be so submissive, but I have a feeling it won't make a huge difference.
570 - Finally found Persia, though I can't talk to them yet. Next turn, will see where they are.
First screenshot (choke.jpg) shows the Ottomans defense of the chokepoint on their continent, which I was surprised to see so early. Next two are pretty self explanatory, my empire at 1000 B.C., and my empire at 2800 B.C., the year Adrianople was founded.
Edit: Forgot to mention something. The reason it took so long to find Persia was a group of barbarian galleys in the way. Twice I lost curraghs while going towards what would be being Persia.
So what is your overall strategy in one sentence?
Cultural / Space Race or Conquest?
If you are an aggressor, WHOM do you want to subiugate first?
As probably most have the Statue of Zeus, why not try to mess with India, in spite of the War Elephant being a strong attacker.
They are peaceful, aggression 1. You have a natural chokepoint to protect your empire if this war should really go wrong: the small landbridge near the Indian subcontinent. Many players have established a channel-city there.
You could even use your Dromons for defence!
Cultural / Space Race or Conquest?
If you are an aggressor, WHOM do you want to subiugate first?
As probably most have the Statue of Zeus, why not try to mess with India, in spite of the War Elephant being a strong attacker.
They are peaceful, aggression 1. You have a natural chokepoint to protect your empire if this war should really go wrong: the small landbridge near the Indian subcontinent. Many players have established a channel-city there.
You could even use your Dromons for defence!
Akane
Gaining the Upper Hand
Longasc said:
There were a smattering of people who had and also didn't have that chokepoint. I took it myself... but then the Indians forced me from it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if others had the same problem...
Trust me, the Gandhi in my game is more than happy to get my land.
Redbad
should have shaved
Longasc said:
I didn't decide on victory-type on forehand. In this situtation it seemed problematic to win without dealing with Gandhi. But by the time I would have defeated India the other civs would strong and advanced. It will not be easy to get rid of them too. On the other hand: the former Indian grounds are very well suited for a builders-victory like spaceship. So I decided to go for that one.
Start
My start was well planned. Id built a practice map and tried out my strategy, so I knew my build order, depending on what other resources were revealed.
I was sure we had a cow to the NW, so much so that when it was actually revealed, I did not even think about it.
Settler moves W then N to cow hex. Settler moves one hex NW
My strategy was to build settlers as quickly as I could. I wanted to grow fast and grab territory on other islands as soon as Droms are ready. I planned to research pottery at 100% (17 turns) and have a granary prebuild ready to go when pottery was complete. Since C3C has 4 turn forest cuts, this would be integral to my quick start. After the Cow was irrigated and roaded, I would start cutting, even after I saw the two BG to the west. 10 shields in 4 turns was worth more then +1 shield after 6 turns of mining. Based on my pre-game practice, I would get 2 cuts (20 shields) added to my 60 shield granary.
Another issue that was discovered in my pre-game practice was that my city growth from 2 to 3 would occur about the same time as my granary completing. This was a problem because I would have more food and my granary half full if I completed it before I grew the city from 2 to 3. My practice showed me growing 1 or 2 turns before the granary completed. This caused me to violate a cardinal rule and stop my growth (stop working the cow! STOP WORKING THE COW!! ARE YOU INSANE?) for 2 turns so my granary would finish before my city grew from 2 to 3.
I had also planned to cut during my settler build, so that I was only depending on my growth (8-10 turns depending on 2 or 3 food/turn) before I was ready to complete my settler. This worked out perfectly, as I got one cut (10 shields) added to my first settler by starting the cut right after the granary was complete, during a curragh build before I started my settler.
So the initial build order looked like this; curragh, warrior, curragh, granary (2 cuts), curragh, settler (1 cut). I also managed to cut 1 turn off the settler build by using the extra shields the city got when growing from 3 to 4. The first city was founded 2 hexes south of Constantinople on the neck with access to the bonus food and the fish tile.
So I only had time for 3 curragh and 1 warrior before the first settler was built. This turned out to be an ok number for the layout of this map. I had seen all of my continent and explored well to the west with just these 4 units when the first settler was produced.
Research
My early research into pottery turned out to be required because India and Russia (my first contacts) would not trade it to me. I got pottery around 3000bc. I started on writing next, planning on going to Philosophy after that. I was not sure I would be able to trade for Code of Laws before I finished Philosophy, so the Republic slingshot was really more of a long-shot.
I broke another golden rule during my research of writing. When I started, even with 90% research, it appeared that I would take the max number of turns to research it. (50 turns). Instead of researching at 10% and putting the money into gold, I kept going at 90%. As I grew my number of cities, the early beakers that did not appear to be keeping up with the minimal research rate did significantly shorten my total research time. I discovered writing in 1830BC.
I made contact with the other civs quickly.
India 3100BC
Russia 2750BC
Ottoman 2430BC
Netherlands - 2230BC
Carthage 2190BC
Vikings -2190BC
Persia finally in 875BC
1000BC 5 cities
1 settler
5 workers
3 warriors
1 archer
3 spearman
2 swordsman
2 dromons
Got Phil in 1425bc and I was first Took mapmaking to get Dromons to deal with barbs. Turns out to have been a mistake since another civ got it around the same time and it had no trade value.
Bad stuff starts to happen
The first problem was that I started to lose curraghs. I was losing 60% of the time I ended on a sea tile. On 1475BC I lost my sixth curragh to a barbarian
On 1660BC I lost a Settler and Warrior standing on the Iron resources north of the start. I ended up losing another vet swordsman and an archer before I got Dromons to do the job and take out the barbs.
India DOW on me out of the blue. This was a problem due to my very small army. I was in the middle of a big settler push and switching over to units really hurt. I was unable to colonize the north of the starting continent or the eastern ones due to this. I was able to retake the one city they took with the help of several Dromons.
I entered MA in 650BC and got 7 turn anarchy with 6 cities!!!
NPStan
My start was well planned. Id built a practice map and tried out my strategy, so I knew my build order, depending on what other resources were revealed.
I was sure we had a cow to the NW, so much so that when it was actually revealed, I did not even think about it.
Settler moves W then N to cow hex. Settler moves one hex NW
My strategy was to build settlers as quickly as I could. I wanted to grow fast and grab territory on other islands as soon as Droms are ready. I planned to research pottery at 100% (17 turns) and have a granary prebuild ready to go when pottery was complete. Since C3C has 4 turn forest cuts, this would be integral to my quick start. After the Cow was irrigated and roaded, I would start cutting, even after I saw the two BG to the west. 10 shields in 4 turns was worth more then +1 shield after 6 turns of mining. Based on my pre-game practice, I would get 2 cuts (20 shields) added to my 60 shield granary.
Another issue that was discovered in my pre-game practice was that my city growth from 2 to 3 would occur about the same time as my granary completing. This was a problem because I would have more food and my granary half full if I completed it before I grew the city from 2 to 3. My practice showed me growing 1 or 2 turns before the granary completed. This caused me to violate a cardinal rule and stop my growth (stop working the cow! STOP WORKING THE COW!! ARE YOU INSANE?) for 2 turns so my granary would finish before my city grew from 2 to 3.
I had also planned to cut during my settler build, so that I was only depending on my growth (8-10 turns depending on 2 or 3 food/turn) before I was ready to complete my settler. This worked out perfectly, as I got one cut (10 shields) added to my first settler by starting the cut right after the granary was complete, during a curragh build before I started my settler.
So the initial build order looked like this; curragh, warrior, curragh, granary (2 cuts), curragh, settler (1 cut). I also managed to cut 1 turn off the settler build by using the extra shields the city got when growing from 3 to 4. The first city was founded 2 hexes south of Constantinople on the neck with access to the bonus food and the fish tile.
So I only had time for 3 curragh and 1 warrior before the first settler was built. This turned out to be an ok number for the layout of this map. I had seen all of my continent and explored well to the west with just these 4 units when the first settler was produced.
Research
My early research into pottery turned out to be required because India and Russia (my first contacts) would not trade it to me. I got pottery around 3000bc. I started on writing next, planning on going to Philosophy after that. I was not sure I would be able to trade for Code of Laws before I finished Philosophy, so the Republic slingshot was really more of a long-shot.
I broke another golden rule during my research of writing. When I started, even with 90% research, it appeared that I would take the max number of turns to research it. (50 turns). Instead of researching at 10% and putting the money into gold, I kept going at 90%. As I grew my number of cities, the early beakers that did not appear to be keeping up with the minimal research rate did significantly shorten my total research time. I discovered writing in 1830BC.
I made contact with the other civs quickly.
India 3100BC
Russia 2750BC
Ottoman 2430BC
Netherlands - 2230BC
Carthage 2190BC
Vikings -2190BC
Persia finally in 875BC
1000BC 5 cities
1 settler
5 workers
3 warriors
1 archer
3 spearman
2 swordsman
2 dromons
Got Phil in 1425bc and I was first Took mapmaking to get Dromons to deal with barbs. Turns out to have been a mistake since another civ got it around the same time and it had no trade value.
Bad stuff starts to happen
The first problem was that I started to lose curraghs. I was losing 60% of the time I ended on a sea tile. On 1475BC I lost my sixth curragh to a barbarian
On 1660BC I lost a Settler and Warrior standing on the Iron resources north of the start. I ended up losing another vet swordsman and an archer before I got Dromons to do the job and take out the barbs.
India DOW on me out of the blue. This was a problem due to my very small army. I was in the middle of a big settler push and switching over to units really hurt. I was unable to colonize the north of the starting continent or the eastern ones due to this. I was able to retake the one city they took with the help of several Dromons.
I entered MA in 650BC and got 7 turn anarchy with 6 cities!!!
NPStan
Shinatoo
OZ wasn't in Kansas
to sum it up.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd like to ask for some advice. I am a bit of the way into the Middle Ages, and Adrianople is still a flip risk of 1.54%. Required garrison would be 40, I have 9 right now. There is no way I can get that many more units in there, but I don't want to lose it since that is my SoZ city. I have built a Library, Marketplace, Temple and Cathedral there, the last three all to try to stop a flip. Should I continue sticking any unit in there to decrease the odds of a flip, or empty it so when it does flip, I don't lose a huge portion of my army?
Psychonaut777
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
- Messages
- 70
I'm doing decently so far. I don't have time for an extensive write up but wow this is hard. I'm way out of my league that's for sure. =)
I settled the capital next to the cow and on the coast/river and then settled the second city next to the game (2 squares between two cities). I proceeded to settle my third city on the forest between the 3 ivory. My 4th city went on the hill /choke point. I had already met with India and explored around the coast and decided that it would be in my best interest to grab as much land from India ASAP since the rest of my island was mine for a while guarenteed. I made a ton of warriors and made a warrior wall to prevent India pushing any further east. I immediately founded 4 cities on India's side of the choke point, grabbing the horse/tobacco. These were actually strong locations and will be useful in later wars vs. India. I then proceeded to build walls in the 3 border cities and then libraries/aquaducts and I massed troops there to prevent flips.
As of entering the middle ages I have the entire island claimed and a road network with most of my core cities worked to good size production capacity. I have avoided wars at all costs and have RoP with all civs. I managed to stay on top of the tech pace the whole time and have a good size treasury. I have SoZ of course and libraries/temples/barracks/Aquaducts in most of my core and my culture is really taking off.
India is a huge threat at this point. They only want to stay peaceful with me because I give them ivory, but they are very unhappy. They are massing troops and are a constant threat even though I have much of their side of the island in my hands already. Ottomans have just about finished off the Russians so they are a galiath on their huge island by themselves.
This is going to be a rough game. =(
Here's my map a little ways into the MA. As you can see I'm trying to set up a cultural/military barrier against the Indians who are really annoying me. We are going to have to stomp them out quick, thus the stack of ancient cavalry and midieval infantry outside Dheli.
note, the tech pace in my game seems abnormally slow. I was the middle man for a very long time. No other civs really contacted each other for a few thousand years. I was able to steadily gain a tech lead and keep most of the others in the dust. This screen shot is actually like 400 yrs after entering the MA I think but for the most part it is accurate (aside from city populations).
I settled the capital next to the cow and on the coast/river and then settled the second city next to the game (2 squares between two cities). I proceeded to settle my third city on the forest between the 3 ivory. My 4th city went on the hill /choke point. I had already met with India and explored around the coast and decided that it would be in my best interest to grab as much land from India ASAP since the rest of my island was mine for a while guarenteed. I made a ton of warriors and made a warrior wall to prevent India pushing any further east. I immediately founded 4 cities on India's side of the choke point, grabbing the horse/tobacco. These were actually strong locations and will be useful in later wars vs. India. I then proceeded to build walls in the 3 border cities and then libraries/aquaducts and I massed troops there to prevent flips.
As of entering the middle ages I have the entire island claimed and a road network with most of my core cities worked to good size production capacity. I have avoided wars at all costs and have RoP with all civs. I managed to stay on top of the tech pace the whole time and have a good size treasury. I have SoZ of course and libraries/temples/barracks/Aquaducts in most of my core and my culture is really taking off.
India is a huge threat at this point. They only want to stay peaceful with me because I give them ivory, but they are very unhappy. They are massing troops and are a constant threat even though I have much of their side of the island in my hands already. Ottomans have just about finished off the Russians so they are a galiath on their huge island by themselves.
This is going to be a rough game. =(
Here's my map a little ways into the MA. As you can see I'm trying to set up a cultural/military barrier against the Indians who are really annoying me. We are going to have to stomp them out quick, thus the stack of ancient cavalry and midieval infantry outside Dheli.
note, the tech pace in my game seems abnormally slow. I was the middle man for a very long time. No other civs really contacted each other for a few thousand years. I was able to steadily gain a tech lead and keep most of the others in the dust. This screen shot is actually like 400 yrs after entering the MA I think but for the most part it is accurate (aside from city populations).
Are you sure you applied the flip risk formula correctly. It seems rather strange that your own city, which should have had it's second culture expansion should share many tiles with the enemy. Or does India really have 20 times your culture, which also seems strange.bed_head7 said:
It shares lots of tiles with India because India captured my third and sevent cities in a war that started shortly after my turn log ended. If you check the attached image in my spoiler post, the city built by the settler on that hill is now Indian. And I didn't do the flip calculations, I used the calculator in Dianthus' mapstat.
Longasc said:
I launched many wars against India, looking to consolidate the continent before moving on to a conquest victory. I managed to take several cities during 3 or 4 wars with incredibly heavy losses. In the meantime I lost my tech lead and any military might I had. Now I am lucky enough to have a cavalry army and two knight armies, but India has infantry and will soon have tanks (not to mention a huge tech lead and thousands of gold).
I'm also the only civ still in the middle ages. Science has gone to zero and I have made peace with all. The plan now is to try to hang on for a space race victory... though in demi I will probably be submitting a loss. Looks like plenty of others had similar luck with india...
grs
nameless one
OPEN
start:
worker west spots cow and 2 bg
settler founds Constantinople nw, spots an elephant
research min on writing
worker irrigates cow first for growth in 8 but 10, then roads
Constantinople builds curragh, curragh, warrior, warrior
1st curragh explores north and jumps to the northeast isles later
2nd curragh does the jump to the isle east immediately
warriors explore inland
inital contacts:
Vikings in 3150BC are up masonry and warrior code
Persians in 2950BC are up masonry and warrior code, too, but miss writing. I trade it in for their 2 techs plus all their 10 gold pieces
Dutch in 3900BC are up pottery, but miss masonry and warrior code. I trade masonry + their 35 gold for pottery.
Catharge in 2710BC are up ceremonial burial and the wheel
Indians 2470BC are up the wheel and ceremonial burial
Ottomans 2390BC are up ceremonial burial, but miss alphabet.
time of trades in 2390BC:
alphabet to Ottomans for ceremonial burial + their 36 gold.
pottery + ceremonial burial to Persia for iron working and their 50 gold.
ceremonial burial + 87 gold to Vikings for the wheel
the wheel + 18 gold to Osman for Mysticism
--> we have iron near Constantinople, no horses yet and are up at least a tech on anyone now
last contact:
Russians in 2270BC are down 3 techs
more trades:
2270BC trade mysticism for hoseback riding + 109 gold to Hannibal
1830BC buy Polytheism from the Ottomans for Iron Working + 420 gold and sell Poly to the Catharge for Mathematics + 109 gold and get 410 gold back from the Ottomans for Mathematics
lunatic run at the republic slingshot:
1750BC writing
1300BC code of laws
1100BC philosophy
many things happen 1100BC:
Ghandi demands 34gold and we pay
we learn Philosophy first, 2 techs missing are currency and construction, only construction is on the market, so no free MA tech, the republic is taken as free tech; trade philosophy + 175gold for construction to the Indians, we revolt and anarchy is 4 turns
last trades:
1025BC trade philosophy to Scandinavia for 335 gold
875BC peace with Russia gives us 116gold + 26gpt + Monarchy for Republic; we learn Literature; buy an Indian worker for 105gold; research turned off
590BC peace with the Ottomans, trade code of laws, literature + 80 gold for currency and we enter the middle ages; trade our free tech engineering for Russias monotheism + 352 gold + 18gpt; research on theology started - hoping the AI will get chivalry
other noteworthy events:
1830BC Caesarea founded at the choke to India
1275 Russians demand mathematics - no - they declare
1050 Ottomans demand writing - no - they declare
975 Catharge demand philosophy - no - they declare
lost 4 curraghs - 2 on suicide runs, 2 to barbs
land barbs were a non event; only found 2 camps in the north, both attacked my spears on defensive terrain, till only 1 warrior remained and were destroyed
future plans:
India will be invaded with 15+ swordsmen, when horses and iron are connected and the SoZ is built. Goal will be to reach Dheli at least and get Pune and all cities on my side of Dhelis n/s axis. India should then be removed in a second run. I will use the many forest near my core to chop swords in 2 turns (2x10spt + 10s from chop).
the world in 590BC:
start:
worker west spots cow and 2 bg
settler founds Constantinople nw, spots an elephant
research min on writing
worker irrigates cow first for growth in 8 but 10, then roads
Constantinople builds curragh, curragh, warrior, warrior
1st curragh explores north and jumps to the northeast isles later
2nd curragh does the jump to the isle east immediately
warriors explore inland
inital contacts:
Vikings in 3150BC are up masonry and warrior code
Persians in 2950BC are up masonry and warrior code, too, but miss writing. I trade it in for their 2 techs plus all their 10 gold pieces
Dutch in 3900BC are up pottery, but miss masonry and warrior code. I trade masonry + their 35 gold for pottery.
Catharge in 2710BC are up ceremonial burial and the wheel
Indians 2470BC are up the wheel and ceremonial burial
Ottomans 2390BC are up ceremonial burial, but miss alphabet.
time of trades in 2390BC:
alphabet to Ottomans for ceremonial burial + their 36 gold.
pottery + ceremonial burial to Persia for iron working and their 50 gold.
ceremonial burial + 87 gold to Vikings for the wheel
the wheel + 18 gold to Osman for Mysticism
--> we have iron near Constantinople, no horses yet and are up at least a tech on anyone now
last contact:
Russians in 2270BC are down 3 techs
more trades:
2270BC trade mysticism for hoseback riding + 109 gold to Hannibal
1830BC buy Polytheism from the Ottomans for Iron Working + 420 gold and sell Poly to the Catharge for Mathematics + 109 gold and get 410 gold back from the Ottomans for Mathematics
lunatic run at the republic slingshot:
1750BC writing
1300BC code of laws
1100BC philosophy
many things happen 1100BC:
Ghandi demands 34gold and we pay
we learn Philosophy first, 2 techs missing are currency and construction, only construction is on the market, so no free MA tech, the republic is taken as free tech; trade philosophy + 175gold for construction to the Indians, we revolt and anarchy is 4 turns
last trades:
1025BC trade philosophy to Scandinavia for 335 gold
875BC peace with Russia gives us 116gold + 26gpt + Monarchy for Republic; we learn Literature; buy an Indian worker for 105gold; research turned off
590BC peace with the Ottomans, trade code of laws, literature + 80 gold for currency and we enter the middle ages; trade our free tech engineering for Russias monotheism + 352 gold + 18gpt; research on theology started - hoping the AI will get chivalry
other noteworthy events:
1830BC Caesarea founded at the choke to India
1275 Russians demand mathematics - no - they declare
1050 Ottomans demand writing - no - they declare
975 Catharge demand philosophy - no - they declare
lost 4 curraghs - 2 on suicide runs, 2 to barbs
land barbs were a non event; only found 2 camps in the north, both attacked my spears on defensive terrain, till only 1 warrior remained and were destroyed
future plans:
India will be invaded with 15+ swordsmen, when horses and iron are connected and the SoZ is built. Goal will be to reach Dheli at least and get Pune and all cities on my side of Dhelis n/s axis. India should then be removed in a second run. I will use the many forest near my core to chop swords in 2 turns (2x10spt + 10s from chop).
the world in 590BC:
Attachments
denyd
Emperor
Theodora was could not believe her good fortune, she had never imagined someone wouldnt show up for the trip to Alpha Centauri and then Flight Controller Dianthus called her name and told her to board the ship. She was surprised at the size of the stasis pod, the ones she had trained on were much smaller and she didnt notice the master control panel until she had strapped herself in. Im in the commanders pod, that means Im in charge she gasped as the pod activated and she began the long slumber.
The pod thumped on the dry plains. As Theodora wiped the sleep from her eyes the realization of what had happened hit like a 20-ton tank rolling over a spearman. She was the leader of a colony on a planet where no one had ever been before. First things first she thought, lets take an inventory of what we got and where we are.
According to the data banks we were loaded with extra scientific information and most of these people love the oceans, so then we should be on a coastline somewhere. Checking the local terrain scanners confirmed the location and hinted at livestock to the northwest. She opened the pod door and pointed northwest and away went the worker and settler.
With two canoes out searching the coastline for other tribes, Theodora made her first decision. Since we havent seen anyone who might be able to tell us about pottery, lets round up another settler group and send them to that narrow isthmus to the southwest. That will secure this half of the island for us in case we arent alone she said.
Just when she began to believe her people were alone on this island, came word from the Kon that the Indian peoples were on the western end of the island. They were a very developed people with three cities and knowledge of three technologies that Theodora did not know of. The Indian leader was a man named Gandhi and he refused to part with any of the knowledge. Subsequently, the Tiki made contact the Catherine, leader of the Russian people. The two women were able to come to an agreement allowing Theodora to acquire pottery and warrior code and she quickly traded warrior code to Gandhi for Ceremonial Burial & Masonry and her people were at knowledge parity with the known world.
The news of the founding of Caesarea was tempered by the discovery of the remains of the Kon washed up on the shores. About this time a mighty Warrior, Hercules was attacked by numerous barbarians and survived to become elite among the few troops Theodora possessed.
Theodora had another mixed emotions day (must be the hormones), when the Tiki met another tribe, the Vikings and through diligent negotiations, Theodora was able to acquire Mathematics, Iron Working, Horseback Riding, Mysticism, The Wheel and all the gold in the known world. The bad news was reported from Odin, a warrior on the southeastern peninsula, who witnessed the new canoe, the Minnow being attacked and sank by pirate vessels.
As the days went by, the Tiki would contact the Persians, the Dutch and Carthage. Only the Dutch would contribute any knowledge, Map Making to Byzantium, the others though were happy to empty their treasuries for common technologies.
Thats highway robbery, Catherine, said Theodora but Ill pay the price you demand for Polytheism, I think Ill need it and sure enough with the discovery of Philosophy, the gift of Monarchy allowed Theodora to be crowned the first queen of the Byzantium Kingdom after five years of anarchy.
Another rousing trading session again left all the gold in the known world in Theodoras treasury, with the knowledge of Construction as a bonus.
The acquisition of a Code of Laws was a cheap purchase, but Theodora hated to be blackmailed by Gandhi for it with no recourse. Her military was just to weak to stand up to the Indians at this point, though the project underway in Adrianople might soon change this.
As the end of her third millennium, she was proud to look out from her room at a kingdom of seven cities. Though dark clouds hung in the western sky, she looked towards the light and hoped for peace.
But, sire this knowledge of currency is important and must be finished. We have over 1,400 gold pieces in the treasury, why do you cut off research funding when we are so close to completion. Science Minister Moonsinger asked as the staff meeting opened.
Im sorry minister, but those funds will be needed elsewhere. Besides my sources report that the barbarian camp in the swamp north of Trebizond would swarm the city if news of this discovery leaked out. We also need to consider that these funds may soon be needed for defense. Those Indian Warriors milling around south of Adrianople, are bound to cause trouble someday. I have established embassies in Delhi and Moscow in the event hostilities break out, we might find an ally useful. Theodora answered.
Prophetic it was as a trio of Indian warriors ventured onto Byzantium soil soon after the meeting. A pair of spearmen in Adrianople fought well, though one would perish the city stood when the first battle ended. Nearly half of the treasury would be sent to Moscow to enlist aid in this battle, though no Russian troops would ever be seen.
Finally a trio of Byzantium warriors, led by Hercules finally defeated the final barbarian horseman in the camp and the land was free of the threat. And in 550 BC the knowledge of Currency propelled the nation into the Middle Ages following only the Russians into that age. The bonus knowledge of Monotheism would compliment the Russian gift of Engineering once a deal could be arranged. The war with India was at a standstill, as every Indian Warrior, Archer and Swordsman who attacked the city would die before returning home.
Editors note: Im still not sure Ill be able to finish this, but with my SGs done for a while, Ill give it another week to see how it goes.
The pod thumped on the dry plains. As Theodora wiped the sleep from her eyes the realization of what had happened hit like a 20-ton tank rolling over a spearman. She was the leader of a colony on a planet where no one had ever been before. First things first she thought, lets take an inventory of what we got and where we are.
According to the data banks we were loaded with extra scientific information and most of these people love the oceans, so then we should be on a coastline somewhere. Checking the local terrain scanners confirmed the location and hinted at livestock to the northwest. She opened the pod door and pointed northwest and away went the worker and settler.
With two canoes out searching the coastline for other tribes, Theodora made her first decision. Since we havent seen anyone who might be able to tell us about pottery, lets round up another settler group and send them to that narrow isthmus to the southwest. That will secure this half of the island for us in case we arent alone she said.
Just when she began to believe her people were alone on this island, came word from the Kon that the Indian peoples were on the western end of the island. They were a very developed people with three cities and knowledge of three technologies that Theodora did not know of. The Indian leader was a man named Gandhi and he refused to part with any of the knowledge. Subsequently, the Tiki made contact the Catherine, leader of the Russian people. The two women were able to come to an agreement allowing Theodora to acquire pottery and warrior code and she quickly traded warrior code to Gandhi for Ceremonial Burial & Masonry and her people were at knowledge parity with the known world.
The news of the founding of Caesarea was tempered by the discovery of the remains of the Kon washed up on the shores. About this time a mighty Warrior, Hercules was attacked by numerous barbarians and survived to become elite among the few troops Theodora possessed.
Theodora had another mixed emotions day (must be the hormones), when the Tiki met another tribe, the Vikings and through diligent negotiations, Theodora was able to acquire Mathematics, Iron Working, Horseback Riding, Mysticism, The Wheel and all the gold in the known world. The bad news was reported from Odin, a warrior on the southeastern peninsula, who witnessed the new canoe, the Minnow being attacked and sank by pirate vessels.
As the days went by, the Tiki would contact the Persians, the Dutch and Carthage. Only the Dutch would contribute any knowledge, Map Making to Byzantium, the others though were happy to empty their treasuries for common technologies.
Thats highway robbery, Catherine, said Theodora but Ill pay the price you demand for Polytheism, I think Ill need it and sure enough with the discovery of Philosophy, the gift of Monarchy allowed Theodora to be crowned the first queen of the Byzantium Kingdom after five years of anarchy.
Another rousing trading session again left all the gold in the known world in Theodoras treasury, with the knowledge of Construction as a bonus.
The acquisition of a Code of Laws was a cheap purchase, but Theodora hated to be blackmailed by Gandhi for it with no recourse. Her military was just to weak to stand up to the Indians at this point, though the project underway in Adrianople might soon change this.
As the end of her third millennium, she was proud to look out from her room at a kingdom of seven cities. Though dark clouds hung in the western sky, she looked towards the light and hoped for peace.
But, sire this knowledge of currency is important and must be finished. We have over 1,400 gold pieces in the treasury, why do you cut off research funding when we are so close to completion. Science Minister Moonsinger asked as the staff meeting opened.
Im sorry minister, but those funds will be needed elsewhere. Besides my sources report that the barbarian camp in the swamp north of Trebizond would swarm the city if news of this discovery leaked out. We also need to consider that these funds may soon be needed for defense. Those Indian Warriors milling around south of Adrianople, are bound to cause trouble someday. I have established embassies in Delhi and Moscow in the event hostilities break out, we might find an ally useful. Theodora answered.
Prophetic it was as a trio of Indian warriors ventured onto Byzantium soil soon after the meeting. A pair of spearmen in Adrianople fought well, though one would perish the city stood when the first battle ended. Nearly half of the treasury would be sent to Moscow to enlist aid in this battle, though no Russian troops would ever be seen.
Finally a trio of Byzantium warriors, led by Hercules finally defeated the final barbarian horseman in the camp and the land was free of the threat. And in 550 BC the knowledge of Currency propelled the nation into the Middle Ages following only the Russians into that age. The bonus knowledge of Monotheism would compliment the Russian gift of Engineering once a deal could be arranged. The war with India was at a standstill, as every Indian Warrior, Archer and Swordsman who attacked the city would die before returning home.
Editors note: Im still not sure Ill be able to finish this, but with my SGs done for a while, Ill give it another week to see how it goes.
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