Conquest 03 Pre-Game Discussion

Archipelego aye...I think it will be a large one and most islands will be connected as we had our turn at iscolation last month. Byzantines means I will still settler wander a little but will be more than likely hugging the coast. The lands to the south could be the way to go as hystoricaly the Byzantines are centred around a choke point and this seemed to work well for them in the way of Dromon management and a lot of other things.

 

thank you ainwood. agreed, a gradual release is fun, and encourages imagination and discussion. giving us a couple days to discuss more specific strategies is perfect, because when the save is released we are all too eager to get started. thanks again for the challenging and thoughtful games.

I was expecting dromons last game. I look forward to this one!

 

Yay i havent used Byzantines yet,and the Dromons seem perfect for a pelago map

 

Byzantines - Scientic & Seafaring - BW & Alphabet

Dromon - 2(2)-1-2-3 - Lethal Sea Bombardment

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Since we are Archepelago then settling on the coast seems wise but I would move north or south to find more food. First worker move W to show most terrain.

I think with the map and UU we should go for the slingshot to MM.

First builds would be Curragh, Curragh, warrior. After that I would try for a grainery if it looks like I can get Pottery from someone.

I am not sure how I would use our UU, though. My first thought was to pump them out and try to keep everyone isolated but I don't think that is practical. Maybe pick a target (or two) early and concentrate on crippling thier expansion.

 

So you think that moving the settler would be the best choice? I think a sling shot to republic would be better than to map making. any problems with what i have said?

 

My experiences with the Dromons as the Byzantines is that they stay extremely effective almost completely to the end of the Age of Sail. Since triremes are needed desperately on an archipelago map anyway, there's a massively high chance that not only can you colonize with extreme prejudice, you can PREVENT other civ's colonization efforts as well, especially if you have a good ship cycling going -- keep at least one dromon in reserve and march (sail?) one forward to take on enemy ships... more needed if they get belligerent... and since you're double the power of the enemy ships on the attack keep aggressive; you could be sinking multiple units alongsides! (Being Scientific helps here, as you can not only prevent others from good lands but also not have to rely quite as much on everyone else's research...)

Even in peaceful times, dromons clog shipping lanes right quick. Blockading can be as effective as physical sinking at times.

As for first moves... I'd probably settle-in-spot. I'd get cows in a couple turns anyway, and I would have a worker. On an archipelago map, I wouldn't have to worry overly much about barbarians even if they ARE raging... so the build order for me would probably be curragh, warrior, settler. (And by the time the settler's ready to come out, my cow's already productive...)

 

Does anyone know the feasability of researching Philosophy first on harder difficulty levels? I don't know what difficulty level ainwood has in store for us, but we seem to be on an upward trend at the moment .

 

I hope not. COTM1 was my first Regent game. COTM2 was my first Monarch game.I dont think i can compete any higher. lol

 

The fact that we are on an archipelago map bodes well for success in the philosophy gambit, because the civs have less AI-AI trading available to them. I have recently been able to get to philosophy first on an archipelago map on Deity (I didn't go via Code of Laws though).

Disclaimer: I am not advocating putting the COTM to Deity level.

 

There was a similar progression at the point I started playing GOTM, in GOTM17. It went Regent, Monarch, Emporer, Deity. Strangely my first GOTM win was on the Deity level .

Thanks for that Sandman, that's worth bearing in mind. My only experience with so far is in GOTM, so I've yet to try all the new stuff on harder levels.

 

The philosophy gambit can be successful at any difficulty level, even Sid given the correct starting conditions. Since we are the Byzantines and start with Alphabet, we have an excellent shot at getting it first. I think only two things could prevent this: 1) lots and lots of goody huts for the AI, and 2) a few commercial or seafaring AIs starting on the same landmass.

I think the latter would not be a deal-breaker though, unless we are playing Diety or higher. If it is Demigod it might be close, but I will go for it anyway since we start on a river.

 

Looks like there are 4 sites that are coastal and on the river, the one we start on, Nw, Sw and 2 squares SW. Since we have a river the plains aren’t too much worse than grassland, since irri plains = mined Grassland. If there is a cow, I would be tempted to move nw, so I would move the worker w first, settler NW, then worker N and irrigate and road the cow. First builds are 2 Curraghs, since we are seafaring they will explore the coast quicker than warriors, since it is islands, I might not need more than a couple of warriors. First one will go west for barb suppression and to find how big the island is.

Plan for the worker is more interesting. IF there is a cow, and we move NW, we will be 2fpt, 3spt until it is irrigated, then 3,3. (this is much better than being at (1,3) for the first 10 turns so I will move to get the cow in range of the initial 9 squares).

Once we grow we will be 2,5 with a forest or 3,4 with an irrigated plains. It will be far easier to manage once there is the option to switch between the two (and gives the option of speeding growth by 1 2 or 3 turns, so I will probably irrigate the starting square after roading the cow.

If there is no cow – I will cry.

 

If there is a cow in range then settling on the spot might work. But, if by moving a couple squares I can get additional food resources, I would probably do it without hesitation.

As for republic, I find myself staying in monarch when trying to support a large military. Early on I lose traction with republic as small cities don't provide much support and the 2gpt support eats up your income pretty fast.

I think that getting to MM quickly and build lots of Dromons for expansion, civ containment and access to Great Lighthouse would best suit a seafaring/archapelago game. Holding on to writing and MM as long as possible would slow the other civs and allow us to expand without competition longer. Remember the AI doesn't use Corraghs.

 

just wanted to check your math. iirc, plain cattle = 2f, 2s in despotism. you will get it to 3f, 2s by irrigating it. still, moving towards a bonus will gain you an advantage rather than settling on the spot and waiting 5T till a plain is irrigated then 5 more till the bonus gets within the border.

early growth will be stunted if we stay put and I always like more land tiles than ocean tiles for my palace city. to me, nw seems to be the most logic starting move, as we'll stay on the coast to get dingies out, be located on a river, and, at the very least, we'll be able to get some grassland tiles in our border (i spy green turf NW of us).

 

Well, my gender-based guess was right...sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but sometimes it pays to be an Orthodox (Jewish) Freudian

The tile 2 SW looks nice--access to fresh water so we can grow to 12; looks like 2 grasslands at least; choke point--who knows, maybe even a deer in a forest nearby. 'Course, I'll send the worker W first.

re: governments--Feudalism gives nice unit support, but I hate two revolutions--do people think it's worth stay despotic through the AA and researching Feudalism before Monarchy and Republic?

 

As mentioned earlier by Roland Ehnström, the tile NW-NW appears to be a cow on plains. I've also reviewed it with the editor and I'm 99% sure we have a cow.

But...

Can it be irrigated? It appears to be 2 tiles from the river so the answer would be no without a 2nd water source we don't see.

A city one tile NW of the starting location would put the cattle in the inital 9 tiles and also insure that it can be irrigated starting on turn 3. The city would act as an irrigated tile and the worker could reach the cattle in 2 moves and begin to irrigate.

The tile S-SW which appears to be a neck is a plains tile. (per editor) and could have either coast or inland waters on the west side. The tile S of the neck tile is grassland.


StanNP

 

Exploration is the key for the success in this game..
We need to explore all islands with Dromons... also if islands are connected with sea squares (that galleys can use) I would try to position Dromons so they prevent AI's galleys moving through those connection tiles. (kind of like we do on the land battlenecks). Doing that i will prevent AI contact each other and I will become a perfect middle man, selling and trading left and right...
It should make quite easy to get phylosophy before anyone else.

 

If there is a cow ..... then irrigating the cow and then the start tile (assuming we move the settler NW) and mm the use of the forest tile, we' will grow on turns 10 and 18 (if my calcs are correct) and have 63 shields to spend. For me that's probably curragh, curragh, settler, alhtough I hate getting the first settler before an escort unit. The alternative is to kick-out a warrior and waste 8 sheilds. I tried a couple of ways to see if curragh, warrior, warrior, settler (65 shields) could fit without delaying a turn on expansion, but couldn't seem to make that work.

If there isn't a cow, I will also cry .....

 

ok this is my first GOTM so i am taking any advice i can get. i like the idea of settling one sguare SW but i also think one sguare NW might be a good idea because i see the beginnings of a forest and there is usally grassland and hills by forest . there seems to be a small desert so i really dont know . any ideas?

 

"possum" The problem with settling NW is the tile of desert which could really effect your population growth. I am considering staying where i am. My building que will prob be curragh, curragh, settler. For technology i will go for Republic slingshot or Map Making Slingshot