Conquests of Might and Magic III

Most of ranged units in HOMM have melee penalty; maybe it would be a good idea to give them attack equal to half of their bombardment rate?

I think disease from floodplain is still too strong. I started a new game with new patch, my capital happened to be at floodplains and it had 4 or so diseases very early. Result: much slower expansion and I got flooded by Neutral Halflings very soon...


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
Most of ranged units in HOMM have melee penalty; maybe it would be a good idea to give them attack equal to half of their bombardment rate?

Only problem with this would be that the AI would be at a distinct disadvantage when using such units as it doesn't know how to use ranged attacks properly.
 
Only problem with this would be that the AI would be at a distinct disadvantage when using such units

Yes, that's true. But perhaps it would switch to units it can use more effectively?

I now play a game at 3th level, also as Castle. Up to now I had two wars: with Neutrals (I attacked them and I am about to wipe them completely) and Tower (they attacked me, I captured three cities, the other ones were far away so I agreed to declare peace for all their gold). The only Tower units I met were Basic Boats, Gremlins and some spell units (Magic Arrows and perhaps Ice Bolt). Neutrals' cities were defended by Halflings, Peasants and... def. 4 (or so) Workers! Only recently they managed to get some Magic Resistance defenders.

It seems that my opponents research Magic branch (e.g. I have seen a Bloodlust in the Tower's territory) while my path was: Creatures-Lvl 1-Lvl 2-Lvl 2 Upg (for Marksmen), then rush to Logistics (for Irrigation) and rush to Tactics (for Railroads, IIRC I miss Leadership and Tactics only), then I plan to go after Diplomacy and higher level units.

It is important to remember that minimum research time is 5 turns, so sometimes I may even drop research to 10% (AFAIR no unused science points are transferred to the next tech in Civ3). It means I have a lot of money (AFAIR almost 9k now).


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
In my current game the AI seems to have gone for L1/L1 upgrade, L2/L2 upgrade as you said. Then at least one other civ has gone for Might and Magic which I traded for.

Okay, for the AI researching tech's, I have finally got it straightened out correctly for the next update. I am testing it now, and it ensures that the different civ's definitely are 'steered' to go down certain tech lines over others... but I made sure that Lvl 1 and 2 techs are researched by AI first. I will add to the civilopedia which towns have what flavors of research, because since there are 3 towns of each civ (3 towers, 3 dungeons, etc), I gave them each slightly different flavorings.

Is there any reason why the Level 3 - 7 isn't a linear progression? From what you said there is no reason to research ahead anyway as the creature structures are in a linear progression in terms of building required to build them. Or is it just some structures that require previous level structures?

I am testing to see how AI researches these Levels right now. Level 3 through 7 is open to the player because some buildings need to be built first that allow others. And some later ones can be built quite early.

For example with Inferno... if you have the Level 1 and 2 buildings (Imp Crucible and Hall of Sins), then you could:
* Research Level 3 to get Kennels (it requires Imp Crucible)
* or Research Level 4 first to get Demon Gate (it requires Hall of Sins)

Now keep in mind the Level 5 and 6 buildings (Hell Hole and Fire Lake) both require the Demon Gate in order to be built... so if a player wants to get tougher level creatures ASAP they can go that route, although they will be missing out on the Hell Hound and Cerberus!

Note though, the higher level creatures aren't produced as often as lower ones, and the Cerberus has some good advantages like Blitz.

The Fortress can build the Level 6 Wyvern Nest very early! Needs only the Lizard Den ;) I tried to keep this the same as HoMM3 was... I will add a page to the civilopedia which gives a clear description for each town of all of this!

Inferno rocks so far by the way. Their units look badass and are a fun. Love the Gogs and Magogs!Inferno was always one of my favourites in HoMM along with the Castle.

EDIT 1: The text for when a spell is intercepted needs changing. Says "We were shot down by an enemy interceptor" or something like that.

EDIT 2: The larger cities look really good, Tom. The Dungeon cities look fantastic especially.

I agree... with Inferno I had some problems defending myself (from units low defense) early on until I was able to get Demons.

1 - Thanks, fixed this for next update!

2 - If you didn't say something about it, the old ones would still be in there! :goodjob: They do look better and the cities are proportioned to each other now... I will probably add the moat graphic again in next update to the metro city size.

And I think the auto-producing times will need to be up'd a bit as well, especially for level 1 and 2 buildings.

Most of ranged units in HOMM have melee penalty; maybe it would be a good idea to give them attack equal to half of their bombardment rate?

I think disease from floodplain is still too strong. I started a new game with new patch, my capital happened to be at floodplains and it had 4 or so diseases very early. Result: much slower expansion and I got flooded by Neutral Halflings very soon...

Only problem with this would be that the AI would be at a distinct disadvantage when using such units as it doesn't know how to use ranged attacks properly.

I did give this some serious thought back when I was inputting the unit values. The problem was that in Civ 3, Artillery bombardment for the AI is IMO broken. Firaxis never fixed it! If I halved the attack value, AI would be doomed.

Now, I did consider halving the defense values of ranged unit that have Melee Penalty. This could make sense, and the AI would not suffer much from this. But in terms of Civ3, half defense is far greater of a penalty than it was in HoMM3! Perhaps melee penalty could be less, like 25%? I figure this may make sense because of this:

In HoMM3 Ranged units could make ranged attacks as long as no enemy was in a surrounding hex. So if a unit attacks a ranged unit, then the melee penalty could apply. Whereas, to deal with AI shortcomings, the Attack of a ranged unit has to be viewed as a ranged attack in a way.

Floodplains: Made note of it.. disease never existed in HoMM3 anyways... so really there is no major point of it being in the mod to begin with. I'll mess with it and likely lower the strength.
--------------------

Also, I am considering changing some of the AI start bonus'. Right now they are mostly all the same. But for Dungeon e.g. "Dungeon towns ..... act as bases from which to wage campaigns of conquest for wealth and power", perhaps they should have commercial and militaristic.

Stronghold is particularly well equipped to deal with attacks on other towns; and are the purest Might faction there is, so perhaps they should stay militaristic and industrious.

I am not sure about some of the others though. Rampart could have expansionist since they are in allied defense of the unspoiled wilderness regions of Erathia :lol:

Tower could have the scientific trait. Just some thoughts.
 
I can see your reasoning about the Level 3 - 7 creature techs now. As long as it doesn't mess up the AI it sounds good. Especially if you can add the info to the Civilpedia.

And I think the auto-producing times will need to be up'd a bit as well, especially for level 1 and 2 buildings.

Yep, I think they are still a bit low. On the equivilent of Monarch I'm finding it pretty easy to conquer AI cities just through massive stacks of L1 creatures. Large numbers die but they can be replaced so quickly it doesn't matter. I guess this is kinda of true to HOMM though. Anyway a bit higher times would be an improvement IMO.

Re ranged units with the melee penalty I think a 25% decrease to defense might work quite well. As you say the AI could still use them for attacking but they would be vulnerable, whcih would mean human players would have to be careful to protect them.

Cheers,

Nick
 
Yes, that's true. But perhaps it would switch to units it can use more effectively?

I now play a game at 3th level, also as Castle. Up to now I had two wars: with Neutrals (I attacked them and I am about to wipe them completely) and Tower (they attacked me, I captured three cities, the other ones were far away so I agreed to declare peace for all their gold). The only Tower units I met were Basic Boats, Gremlins and some spell units (Magic Arrows and perhaps Ice Bolt). Neutrals' cities were defended by Halflings, Peasants and... def. 4 (or so) Workers! Only recently they managed to get some Magic Resistance defenders.

It seems that my opponents research Magic branch (e.g. I have seen a Bloodlust in the Tower's territory) while my path was: Creatures-Lvl 1-Lvl 2-Lvl 2 Upg (for Marksmen), then rush to Logistics (for Irrigation) and rush to Tactics (for Railroads, IIRC I miss Leadership and Tactics only), then I plan to go after Diplomacy and higher level units.

It is important to remember that minimum research time is 5 turns, so sometimes I may even drop research to 10% (AFAIR no unused science points are transferred to the next tech in Civ3). It means I have a lot of money (AFAIR almost 9k now).

AI research is now working very well from my tests. I will try to get the new BIQ file out soon. It must have been an issue with AI research that I overlooked causing AI not to get it's better units ? All start workers have defense of 4, to help defend in the early game. Everyone should only have 1 of them though.

I agree that some of the later research times are much too cheap. It becomes easy to research tech's very fast. I will have to adjust this as well to keep the game's flow moderately consistent.

I can see your reasoning about the Level 3 - 7 creature techs now. As long as it doesn't mess up the AI it sounds good. Especially if you can add the info to the Civilpedia.

Yep, I think they are still a bit low. On the equivilent of Monarch I'm finding it pretty easy to conquer AI cities just through massive stacks of L1 creatures. Large numbers die but they can be replaced so quickly it doesn't matter. I guess this is kinda of true to HOMM though. Anyway a bit higher times would be an improvement IMO.

Re ranged units with the melee penalty I think a 25% decrease to defense might work quite well. As you say the AI could still use them for attacking but they would be vulnerable, whcih would mean human players would have to be careful to protect them.

I will check the values of these units and see what they come to with 25% off defense for melee penalties as an option to use.
 
All start workers have defense of 4, to help defend in the early game. Everyone should only have 1 of them though

This is not the case. AI has many def. 4 workers (but perhaps not all of them), workers who were captured or from razed cities also have def. 4.

It seems that a lot of techs are not tradeable but after Diplomacy it is possible to steal them ;)


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
Now it is clear why AI's were so crazy about Magic techs: two of them started to build Armageddon.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to give each "civ" a different leader mentioned in H1-H4 and related games. My suggestions are:

Castle: Catherine Ironfist, Roland Ironfist, General Kendall (?)
Tower: Gavin Magnus, Emilia Nighthaven (sp.?), ...
Necropolis: Gryphonheart, Finneas Villmar, Gauldoth Half-Dead
Krewlod: Winston Boragus, Kilgor, Tarnum
Neutrals: perhaps Gelu, Draco and someone else

etc. (I am not an expert in HOMM history).

Another idea: if you included Neutrals, I would also consider The Forge. I am not sure if it is a good idea (many HOMM fans had ben against this city so it had been replaced by Elementals) but I think it is worth to consider.


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
This is not the case. AI has many def. 4 workers (but perhaps not all of them), workers who were captured or from razed cities also have def. 4.

It seems that a lot of techs are not tradeable but after Diplomacy it is possible to steal them ;)

I see what you mean, many workers magically have the 4 hitpoints... from captured workers as you stated and I think also from building workers from captured cities. I have removed the hitpoints from the workers.

Now it is clear why AI's were so crazy about Magic techs: two of them started to build Armageddon.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to give each "civ" a different leader mentioned in H1-H4 and related games. My suggestions are:

Castle: Catherine Ironfist, Roland Ironfist, General Kendall (?)
Tower: Gavin Magnus, Emilia Nighthaven (sp.?), ...
Necropolis: Gryphonheart, Finneas Villmar, Gauldoth Half-Dead
Krewlod: Winston Boragus, Kilgor, Tarnum
Neutrals: perhaps Gelu, Draco and someone else

etc. (I am not an expert in HOMM history).

Another idea: if you included Neutrals, I would also consider The Forge. I am not sure if it is a good idea (many HOMM fans had ben against this city so it had been replaced by Elementals) but I think it is worth to consider.

Noted, I was initially thinking that Railroads may offset the Nuclear tech armageddon. I am still testing various settings for tech research to try to get it right. But I will keep this in mind and make adjustments.

That is a good idea for leaders, so that way there are not multiple leaders of the same name in the game. I will go ahead and do this!

For the Forge, I don't know if alot of the information is available as to what the unit stats may have been. I know they were supposed to be quite powerful. It would be nice if they would have released it later on anyways; I'm sure fans would have been interested to check it out!

Perhaps later on I could add it in as a seperate BIQ with the Forge included.
 
I see what you mean, many workers magically have the 4 hitpoints... from captured workers as you stated and I think also from building workers from captured cities.

Only from captured workers and razed cities. Slave workers built in captured towns (labelled "Castle worker") have no HP. As for AI: some of their workers have HP, some do not.

I have removed the hitpoints from the workers.

I think it is the best solution.

For the Forge, I don't know if alot of the information is available as to what the unit stats may have been. I know they were supposed to be quite powerful.

There is some info at Polish HOMM websites. Unfortunately, I have not found unit stats yet.
You may find some useful info (mostly taken from Polish site Acid Cave) here:

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/forgetown/

Edit: and here: http://mightandmagic.wikia.com/wiki/Forge_(town)

It seems that it has to appear in WoG.


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
I had abandoned my game with Castle (at turn 2xx it hangs) and started a new one with Tower (also at Skilled). I have built Artifact Merchant and after some time I started to get Artifacts. I have Creature techs up to upgraded lvl 4 only but Artifacts are upgraded directly to lvl 7 (which are awesome, especially with a Hero) - is it a bug or not?

About AI research: it is busy with Attack and Magic branches (so it gets some decent defenders like Hypnotize or finally Summoned Earth Elementals) but it skips Creatures and Other.

A question about Haste: does it have the Hidden Nationality flag? It happened to me twice that my workers were captured by Haste units that came from Castle territory and they became Castle workers (I killed both Haste and I feel my Rogue will be busy :backstab:).
Edit: it seems it does. Castle flooded me with their workers and I could capture them with Haste without triggering war.

I gave a try to Magic Tomb units and they are awesome, especially against low HP units like Bloodlust and Peasants - they not only kill them in one hit but also have a good chance to enslave a Magic Arrow.

(Edit2) It seems that AI cannot handle Treasures properly - when I conquer AI territory with an access to the proper resource I kill a lot of units with Treasures, so my units pick them and deliver to my capital.


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
can we make this game shorter like 540 turns instead of 1000?

Yes, game time will be shortened.

I had abandoned my game with Castle (at turn 2xx it hangs) and started a new one with Tower (also at Skilled). I have built Artifact Merchant and after some time I started to get Artifacts. I have Creature techs up to upgraded lvl 4 only but Artifacts are upgraded directly to lvl 7 (which are awesome, especially with a Hero) - is it a bug or not?

Not sure what the hang could be caused from. It's possible unit limit could have been reached, but this usually only happens on very high difficulty levels. I will check on the Artifacts, they may not have the correct technology requirement set.

About AI research: it is busy with Attack and Magic branches (so it gets some decent defenders like Hypnotize or finally Summoned Earth Elementals) but it skips Creatures and Other.

I believe I have got the AI research issue sorted out. Next update will have them researching correctly.

A question about Haste: does it have the Hidden Nationality flag? It happened to me twice that my workers were captured by Haste units that came from Castle territory and they became Castle workers (I killed both Haste and I feel my Rogue will be busy :backstab:).
Edit: it seems it does. Castle flooded me with their workers and I could capture them with Haste without triggering war.

Haste and many other spells have changed their use with next update. They will now have a direct effect on Level 2 creatures. So haste will increase the creatures speed, e.g.

I gave a try to Magic Tomb units and they are awesome, especially against low HP units like Bloodlust and Peasants - they not only kill them in one hit but also have a good chance to enslave a Magic Arrow.

I was unsure if spells are too powerful or not at this time. Especially since they can be built.

(Edit2) It seems that AI cannot handle Treasures properly - when I conquer AI territory with an access to the proper resource I kill a lot of units with Treasures, so my units pick them and deliver to my capital.


The AI I believe knows to bring it to the Victory Point location, but many times it does not. I don't believe there is a way to get around this.

I have been trying to figure out a better way to implement Heroes into the early game before I release next update.

Thank you for remarks!
 
The treasure or RM or what ever name they are given, you will find the AI will have units with them all over the place. I doubt it can be changed as I even did once. Accidently pick up a treasue with a strong unit and could not see the point in sending it back, till I had rails.

The treasure is not that important anyway.
 
Bug in Tower: their cities may build more than one Golem Factory. One is available with Lvl3 (as expected), next ones with Lvl6 and Lvl5 upg. (I have discovered all creature techs apart from upgrades for levels 6 and 7). I have no idea if extra buildings produce extra Golems.

Edit:

About treasures: yes, they are not so important, but the gold and VP bonus are nice.

About spell efects: I guess they will be something like army-like Heroes but with weaker effects?

Some spells that enslave units may be overpowered. Magic tombs: strong, but IMHO nothing gamebreaking (Magic Arrows are not very strong anyway). Disguise: good if you have a good unupgraded lvl2 unit. Has its uses but no great deal. Resurrection: I think it is overpowered. When properly used (attack redlined or low HP, low Defence units only) you may have dozens of unupgraded lvl 7 units with no maintenance just after you discovered the right tech (if you have enough money, of course).

Edit2: it seems that Shipyards do not serve as trade hubs, at least over ocean. I have captured AI city at the second continent, rushed a Shipyard and it does not provide access to resources from the home continent, where most of my coastal cities have shipyards.

Edit 3: this game also hanged, after turn 255. I doubt it was due to the unit limit, as a few turns before I had disbanded almost all Gremlins and Master Gremlins. I started a new game as Dungeon, at Proven.

E4it 4: resurrected units are King ones - is this by design?


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
As some people already noticed, Scouts (and other units) spawn Barbarians much too often, so Scouts get killed very easily. A few possible workarounds:

- give all civs Expansionist trait (already mentioned by tom2050)
- give Scouts move 1, ATAR (ATAR units do not spawn barbarians)
- give Scouts some Defence (like initial Worker and captured Workers).

In unmoded game huts within a city radius never spawned spawned Barbarians, now they often do.

In general, I think Barbarians are too strong. They are not a problem for Civs with good defensive lvl 1 units (especially Fortress and Castle) but they may be a big problem for Cornflux (Pixies) and Neutrals (their Settlers are often guarded by Peasants). Maybe basic Barbarian unit should be weaker and slower? Peasants would be too weak, but maybe Halflings?


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.
 
Tom, mixing Heores and Civ is like making crack. This is the most fun mod I've played yet for Civ, and considering how good some of the mods around here are, that's quite a feat.

As far as the barbarians go, I like them powerful as they are now. I seem to remember the neutral units in Heroes being no pushover at the beginning either. Perhaps the hapless scout could be removed, and exploring left in the hands of level-one units?

Keep up the good work; I'm looking forward to your updates.
 
Tom, mixing Heores and Civ is like making crack. This is the most fun mod I've played yet for Civ, and considering how good some of the mods around here are, that's quite a feat.

As far as the barbarians go, I like them powerful as they are now. I seem to remember the neutral units in Heroes being no pushover at the beginning either. Perhaps the hapless scout could be removed, and exploring left in the hands of level-one units?

Keep up the good work; I'm looking forward to your updates.

I agree with both points. I hardly ever use scouts and I like the barbs reasonably strong too.

Cheers,

Nick
 
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