Constantly Falling Behind

[PolarisSLBM]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I'm always falling behind it seems. I can't research fast enough, I can't build enough military units, and it seems like I am always running low on money. I usually start off doing well in the score department, but by 1000 AD (in a regular game) it starts to stagnate while the AI jumps ahead. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Wodan]

There are several ways to "fall behind". Score, military, tech. Which are you talking about? Hard to tell from your post.

Notes
-- I think you might find that even when winning, it's difficult to "build enough military units". Best get used to that feeling.
-- research? Build Monasteries before you build anything else. Learn how to build specialized commerce cities. Learn how to effectively maximize cottages.
-- running low on cash? Who cares. Cash is a tool, not an end goal itself. Now, if you said "I never have enough cash to upgrade my units" then we could talk about solutions to having obsolete units. But, low cash itself is not a problem.
-- score? Again, who cares. Score doesn't mean anything, except at 2050AD. In fact, having a low score might actually be a benefit. I believe the AIs tend to take pity on you if you have a low score. They will tend to give you good relations, and won't invade even if they think they have better military. On the other hand, if you are top score, and they think they have better military, they'll invade at the drop of a hat, even if they are Friendly with you.

Wodan

 

[Toshiro126]

There are a lot of answers to this question, but one thing that improved my game immensely was not automating my workers. They tend to make bad decisions which will add to the chances of you falling behind in the late game.

 

[PolarisSLBM]

Okay, let me try to be a bit more clear (and attach an example saved game...).

It seems like somewhere near the middle I start falling behind technologically. I get people finishing wonders I just got to researching, and people adopting civics that are kinda far away, things like that.

When I say 'I don't have enough money', I mean that I get stuck at 10 or 20% research. Several times I have gone bankrupt and had my units go on strike. How do I generate more cash?

Finally, having a low score is not the bad thing... rather, I was leading for quite some time, when suddenly the AIs started rapidly increasing their scores, and mine remained completely stagnant.

Have a look at my save game, and help me out, please? What am I doing wrong? I know I probably don't have enough military units...

 

[petey]

The AI tends to build a lot of cottages. That means that if you focus more on farms and mines, you'll grow quicker in the beginning and can grab a lead on them. In about the mid-game, though, when all those cottages start to mature, they'll dramatically start taking off in the tech race. At the same time, it's getting harder for you to keep the tech slider up, since without as many towns, you can't afford the cities that you have.

I'm at work, so I can't see your save game, but based on what you're saying, I'd assume that this is what's happening.

 

[PolarisSLBM]

So I should build more cottages?

 

[BrutalusMaximus]

I play at prince but the consensus seems to be that after building on a resource tile the best thing to have is grasslands with cottages on them.

 

[StrideCollosus]

This might not be the problem but... From my own experience and various strategy posts and guides on here, the most surefire way to get yourself behind in Civ4 is to expand too fast.

Civ3 pretty much pushed you in the direction of buildings tonnes of cities, whereas Civ4 pushes you more towards quality not quantity (mainly due to the way the maintenance costs work).

I found this out the hard way!

 

[Vaiks]

Try to work on this: don't expand so fast and build more cotages. As it was said before, cash is a tool and not a goal, and it is one of the most important tools you have on the game.

From your description, it's your upkeep cost that is draging your research slider back.

You should take a look on those articles from the forum:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148840&highlight=upkeep+cost

and

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473

 

[PolarisSLBM]

That second thread was the most helpful thing I have read about Civ IV. I didn't think it was possible to have too many cities (without conquering half the map, that is). Now I'm going to go try that, and limit myself to 10 cities (for awhile).

Does the size of the map affect the optimum city number?

 

[Artanis]

That second thread was the most helpful thing I have read about Civ IV. I didn't think it was possible to have too many cities (without conquering half the map, that is). Now I'm going to go try that, and limit myself to 10 cities (for awhile).

Does the size of the map affect the optimum city number?

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it affects maintainance costs, and if nothing else, a smaller map is going to hold less cities no matter how fast you expand.

I wouldn't limit myself to 10 cities, or any specific number of cities for that matter. Watch your Science slider in the upper-left corner...when that starts to tank (hitting, say, 50%), you've built enough cities. Once your economy recovers and expands to support more cities, then you build more.

 

[azzkicar]

I recently ran into this problem, and courthouses are very useful in that regard. Courthouses + forbidden palace will certainly allow you to expand more. As last poster suggested, best tip is to watch the science %. If it gets below I say 30% or so, stop expanding and focus on commerce. Once it's back up to about 70% or so, then you can consider expanding again.

IMHO, after the 12th city or so, I pretty much settle new cities only on the following situations:

1. There's a resource you need that you either don't have or is valuable (+happy resources, key resouces like oil or aluminum)

2. To curb opponent expansion. Just because you don't need more land doesn't mean you should let others have them.

3. In late game, act as an airport destination for warfare, missionaries. Being able to transport units across the map in a large or huge map in a single turn is simply too good to pass up.

If I capture an enemy city, I always almost keep it unless the city is new (less than 5 pop, little improvements). I'd raze only if I am being pushed back and I don't think I can hold on to the city. Enemy established cities are worth it, even if far away.

 

[Kenji]

Polaris... u sure falling behind w/o enough cottages

u can try reload to earlier (or start...) and go all cottages on flood plain / grassland instead of farm them... u got lots of population but u got no gold income at all... how is that possible not to falling behind?

imagine...at AD1460 all your Farms on Floodplains changed from 4 food 1 gold to 3 food 7 gold... do the math then u will found that u can have ~5 times the income you got now in the save...

 

[PolarisSLBM]

I started a new game and built a bazillion cottages. By 1515 AD (which is now), my gross national product is 292... and my rival best is 170. My rival average is 55. Rival worst is -7! And I'm only second in land area. But my approval rating is 59% (which is 14th), or whatever.

But it's pretty awesome having a ton of money.

 

[HawkeyeGS]

I normally have heaps of cottages in all my cities. The only 2 exceptions are:

1) around about my 3rd city (near lots of grassland and floodplains) I build just farms. Later on this will serve as a great source of great people.

2) a coastal city or a city that otherwise has little or no production I will build some workshops and watermills.

It all depends upon location and your current and future needs.

 

[Thalassicus]

Another important thing is that roads only serve two purposes now: moving troops and connecting resources. So other than the bare minimum for those two purposes, it's best to skip roads if cities are still working unimproved land.

On the other hand, near cultural boarders, pave everything! It allows you to easily maneuver in time of war, and slows down the AI since they pillage the roads (yet provides no income for pillaging).

 

[PolarisSLBM]

So roads don't provide money anymore?

 

[Sim-Liver]

I normally have heaps of cottages in all my cities. The only 2 exceptions are:

1) around about my 3rd city (near lots of grassland and floodplains) I build just farms. Later on this will serve as a great source of great people.

Why the 3rd city exactly? I have tried this and just do not seem to build as many GP's as I like (15-18 in one city)

2) a coastal city or a city that otherwise has little or no production I will build some workshops and watermills.

Why build production in cities where commmerce is the given? This goes against all odds of ever getting the most out of that city. I would build commerce in cities on coastal squares(use the collosus to enhance) and production where there are the most hammers around it(turn on the tiles resource visual just before building a new city to see where to put it)

 

[Fragment]

That second thread was the most helpful thing I have read about Civ IV. I didn't think it was possible to have too many cities (without conquering half the map, that is). Now I'm going to go try that, and limit myself to 10 cities (for awhile).

Hi Polaris,

for training, and a proof that you don't need many cities, try the one city challenge some time. It's really enlightening.

Regards.

 

[Moonsinger]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I'm always falling behind it seems. I can't research fast enough, I can't build enough military units, and it seems like I am always running low on money. I usually start off doing well in the score department, but by 1000 AD (in a regular game) it starts to stagnate while the AI jumps ahead. What am I doing wrong?

There is an old saying...to gain something is to lose something. I believe that your problem is that you are trying too hard to be ahead in every departments. Try to divide your game to various stages and focus on fewer goals. For example, stage one: develop and secure your initial starting position. At this stage, you should be focusing on exploring the surrounding, growing your population, building cottage, and searching for iron (hint, iron and cottage are very important). Once you have pottery, wheel, and iron, move on to stage two. My stage two usually involves searching for only 2 more techs (ie Writting and Alphabet) and bulding up axemen, swordmen, and spearmen. By this time, I probably haven't yet discovered Mysticism, Animal Garthering, and Sailing, but I have Writting and Alphabet which I could trade for the rest of those missing techs. I also usually have about two cities at this time, but no more than 3 cities. About 15 turns before I finish stage two, I move ahead on to stage three to acquire a holy city, some valuable resources, and more technologies through conquest. Then I move to stage four to consolidate and to restructure my empire. Code of Law is usually my focus on this stage. I think you get the idea. It's really all about divide and conquer. I know...it's not easy but with a little bit of practice, I'm sure you will get it. Good luck!