Constitutional Discussion

[gert-janl]

Let´s officially start a discussion about a Constitution.

As I mentioned earlier, the word constitution might sound stronger than it could become. I´d favor a constitution which can serve an informational purpose so that everyone knows everyone´s responsibility, and nothing more really. I hope to see that we won´t need a Judiciary, since we are such a small group.

I wrote down some keypoints on how I see our future constitutional system. I used the ISDG for the `election clause´, all the others are from scratch.

Feel free to comment!! Remember that this is just a draft version with my ideas. This is nowhere near the final version.

Consul of Internal Affairs (25 turns term, elected)
-will be the host of discussions concerning internal affairs (such as, 
but not limited to trade, finances, culture)
-Posts a clear, up to date summary of developing plans
-Communicates, if necessary, with turnplayer
-Assuming FA Consul duties if necessary

Consul of Foreign Affairs (25 turns term, elected)
-will be the host of discussions concerning foreign affairs (such as, 
but not limited to diplomacy, trade-deals, questions of war and peace
-maintains a clear and up to date thread with a summary of foreign 
relations
-signs treaties with Foreign Nations. 
-works in close co-operation with 4 ambassadors
-Assuming IA Consul duties if necessary

Turnplayer (10 turns term, rotating player list with approval of the 
GAD)
-responsible for implementing government plans into the actual save
-requires a very dedicated civver, who isn´t afraid to put a lot of time 
into the game
-posts every turn a summary of all actions done in the save, in a
separate thread, complete with clear screenshots, not to be posted on 
the regular upload server of civfanatics.com ;) but as attachment to 
the post, to keep everyone informed
-maintain good relations with, and stay in close contact with the 
consuls in order to execute government policy

General Assembly of Doughnutians (GAD) (comprised of all team members)
-critically follow the turnplayer´s actions
-approve government plans
-draw up new plans concerning all possible issues
-Impeach turnplayer (51% of all players of the team ánd approval by 2 
Consuls required)
-2/3 majority required for: 	-declarations of war
				-impeachment of consuls
				-declaration of state of emergency:
                      consul has to propose such a declaration, which essentially 
                      means that the Consul of Internal affairs gets to play the 
                      save, to be 100% sure about what happens and who is
                      responsible

Ambassadors (25 turns term, elected)
-maintain all relations with designated Civilization
-stay in touch more than regularly with designated civilization
-communicate results, plans and proposals to FA Consul ánd GAD

UN Representative (no turn limit of term, elected)
-shall not be considered an elected office, though elections will be held
-elections shall start following regular nominations cycle
-Once elected, the representative will be in office for life, or as long 
as he wants to. 
-A 51% of the GAD can remove him from office and start new elections

Elections
§1. The nominations to the offices shall start seven (7) turns
before the end of the current term. The elections shall start
four (4) turns before the end of the current term and finnish
as the next term starts.
§2. The candidate with the most votes wins the election.
§3. Voting shall be anonymous
§4. If a poll is tied when it closes a new poll with the tied
candidates will be required. It shall be open for minimum 24 hours.

Turnplayerlist
A list will be drawn up by the GAD, for which every citizen can submit an 
application. The list order will be completely randomized, using a RNG. A 
finished list needs a 2/3 majority of at least ½ of the entire team. Voting 
shall be anonymous.

Citizens
-A citizen shall not accept more than one nomination for elected offices

 

[Kiech]

Not that I'm against a set of rules, but we have a fairly small group. Do we really need a constitution to police ourselves?

I am OK with just electing representives(king, diplo, un, etc) and voting them OUT if they don't perform.

 

[gert-janl]

You have a valid point. That´s why I had some doubts when I started drawing up this list as well. But since we cannot afford it to make mistakes, (we must win!!!) we all need to know what offices have what responsibilities. And that´s basically what this list is for. Not to provide a closed, annoying ruleset, absolutely not. That´s also why I wouldn´t favor a Judiciary in our team.

 

[Nobody]

perphaps we could rename it from big old angry "Constitution" to the user freindly Fundamental Laws (its worked for the Tsar) and rename the turn play to something that makes them sound like our head of state..... now calm down im not proposing President or King or Prime Minister. But because we Iroquios we could name them Cheif or as the Doughnut team maybe Baker or Grand Holemaker

 

[zyxy]

I think the only positions we really need are
- a turnplayer
- someone to keep track of the treaties we signed, expiration dates etc
- perhaps ambassadors

Other leadership positions can mainly cause trouble, holding up discussions if the leader goes AWOL, or incoherent gameplay if they don't agree, etc.

 

[Nobody]

Or perphas a Military dude, a foreign dude and internal dude, with the turn playing being run between the 3.

 

[Nobody]

so i guess where not having a goverment

 

[gert-janl]

Quick assumption there!

I'd really prefer to have some kind of government. This government wouldn't be anything more than some people who keep track of certain issues in the game and initiate discussion in our forum. It will become more and more important once we have more cities.

If we have 6 cities and the turnplayer has to micromanage all the cities every turn again, it will cost him a lot of time every turn. Creating some government positions would then ease his task, and ensure this happens in a democratic way, since the government positions will be elected.

 

[Robi D]

Quick assumption there!

I'd really prefer to have some kind of government. This government wouldn't be anything more than some people who keep track of certain issues in the game and initiate discussion in our forum. It will become more and more important once we have more cities.

If we have 6 cities and the turnplayer has to micromanage all the cities every turn again, it will cost him a lot of time every turn. Creating some government positions would then ease his task, and ensure this happens in a democratic way, since the government positions will be elected.

I agree that we need a government, so there is a specific person responsible for an area, so there is no confusion.

-The IA and FA consuls are fine, maybe the terms could be a little longer.
-Turnplayer is fine
- I think there should be a consul for defence
- I dont think that seperate ambassadors are necessary, the UN rep could handle that duty.
- The GA is fine
- I don't think there is a need for a judicial person, but it might be handy for someone to run the election processes

Finally would you have a president or is that covered by GA and/or turnplayer, i'm not sure about this.

 

[Tomoyo]

I think the turnplayer should be in charge of trivial micromanaging tasks - he or she will have plenty of time to micromanage, and there will (hpoefully) be so much discussion that the turnplayer will be able to whiz through it. Time is not an issue.

I like the constitution, except I don't see the point of the ambassadors. What exactly do they do?

 

[vikingruler]

we don't really need ambassadors, FA consuls are enough. also, i don't see the power consuls have, if they need a 2/3 citizen majority. i think if 2/3 of the citizens are really aganist something a poll is taken. everything else sounds fine.

 

[gert-janl]

Ambassadors could help the Consul of Foreign Affairs, that could be their task. But no need to put that in the constitution, you are right.

I rewrote these points into a more detailed version of the 'Fundamental Laws'

[b]Chapter 1[/b] (Citizen Rights)
Article 1-1
Every Doughnutian citizen shall be treated equally in any respect;

Article 1-2
Every Doughnutian citizen shall have the right to initiate, participate or 
passively read all discussions in the Team Dougnut sub-forum;

Article 1-3
Every Doughnutian citizen has the right to information, such as:
a. consulting the savegame, as can be found in the GMail database, 
b. requesting additional info from officials,
c. being provided with clear turn summaries and government reports;

[b]Chapter 2[/b] (Government positions and responsibilities)
Article 2-4
The government of Doughnutia shall be headed by two consuls, who share the 
same power and will be elected for a 25 turn term by the people of 
Doughnutia;

Article 2-5
These consuls shall together be considered the president of Doughnutia; 

Article 2-6
One consul shall be responsible for all internal affairs by:
a. hosting discussions concerning internal affairs,
b. maintaining an up to date summary of recent developments and future       
   plans,
c. providing clear guiding to the turnplayer,
d. consulting the people of Dougnutia through polls, discussions or chats; 

Article 2-7
One consul shall be responsible for all contacts with foreign nations by:
a. hosting national discussions concerning the contact with foreign 
   nations,
b. signing treaties with foreign nations,
c. maintaining an up to date summary of recent developments and future 
   plans, such as the signing of treaties,
d. providing clear guiding to the turnplayer
e. consult the people of Dougnutia through polls, discussions or chats;
f. appointing, when necessary, to be decided by the consul, ambassadors to    
   foreign nations to support the consul in his work;

Article 2-8
A list of citizens who will be authorised to play the save will be drawn up 
by the General Assembly of Doughnutians (GAD) and needs a 2/3 approval;

Article 2-9 
The turnplayer shall receive satisfactory input by the government officials 
what to do in a turn; 

Article 2-10
The turnplayer must report his actions and decisions every turn on the 
secret sub-forum of Doughnutia, using screenshots and detailed action 
lists;

Article 2-11
The GAD shall elect a UN-ambassador for life, who will be tasked with all 
issues relating to the UN, and who will represent Doughnutia to the UN in 
all UN-discussions;

[b]Chapter 3[/b] (Impeachment procedures)
Article 3-12
The turnplayer can be impeached from office before his 10-turn term expired 
if:
a. 51% of the GAD votes in favour of impeachment
b. both consuls agree in favour of impeachment –their vote shall not be 
recorded in the GAD vote-;

Article 3-13
A consul can be impeached from office before expiration of his 25-turn term 
if 66.6% (2/3) of the GAD votes in favour of impeachment;

Article 3-14
An impeached official shall be temporarily replaced by one of the consuls, 
while nominations and elections are started within 24 hours after 
impeachment;

Article 3-15
In the event of impeachment of two consuls, the turnplayer shall assume all 
tasks and duties of the consuls until new elections have provided two new 
consuls;

Article 3-16
The UN-ambassador can be impeached from office, although his term 
officially never expires, if 51% of the GAD votes in favour of impeachment –
no additional approval by the consuls is required-;

[b]Chapter 4[/b] (Additional Articles)
Article 4-17
Elections will be organised by the Consul of Internal Affairs, following 
these guidelines:
a. The nominations to the offices shall start seven (7) turns
   before the end of the current term,
b. The elections shall start four turns before the end of the current term   
   and finish as the next term starts,
c. The candidate with the most votes wins the election,
d. Voting shall be anonymous,
e. If a poll is tied at closure, a new poll, which should be open for at 
   least 24 hours, with the tied candidates will be required,
f. A citizen shall not accept more than one nomination for elected offices.

I hope you like the new version

 

[Robi D]

Excellent, sounds good

I have two questions

1. Will the consuls have the option of creating secondary positions latter in the game if they are needed?

2. What happens when the two consuls disagree on an action? And would the turnplayer of UN rep have the tie-breaking vote?

 

[gert-janl]

I would say that any official can establish as many secondary positions as he wants, but the official remains responsible in the end. Let's say; it's not prohibited by the fundamental laws, so it's possible. Remember, it's a loose set of rules.

I think it happens rarely that consuls disagree on an action. I'd use the following guideline; when it's on internal affairs the internal consuls decides and when the dispute is on foreign affairs the foreign consul decides. But I don't think this situation will rise soon, since every consul should follow the will of the people.

I don't think the turnplayer or UN representative should be given too much authority. Their position is not 'elected', so they cannot be held responsible for what they do. One exception to this is the rare situation of Article 3-15, just to avoid anarchism.

Note: it seems I already started interpreting. Should we add some additional clauses, to answer to these questions?

 

[Nobody]

i like the new one, but who controls the military i think there should be one person who job this is a 3rd consul. and i think the names could be changed

 

[DaveShack]

i like the new one, but who controls the military i think there should be one person who job this is a 3rd consul. and i think the names could be changed

Hmm, how to respond to this without leaving a bad taste for people who might have disliked how DG6 worked...

The consuls are responsible for organizing decisions on what we should do. The turnplayers are responsible for execution of how we should do it. Everything is open forum so that the people can drive things in whatever direction the majority want.

As for military as a separate job, by the time we get to the point that we need someone to do this, either we're hopelessly outgunned and doomed, or we have a crushing advantage and victorious, or evenly matched and tactics are what matters.

 

[gert-janl]

I also think that military can easily be part of the Consul of Internal Affairs' responsibilities. And when this consul wants some help with organising unit movement, or military plans, he can call a military council into existence.

I'll put up a poll soon, since I think we have had enough time to see it through.