Corporations!

[Funak]

This all seems extremely complicated, but if you're happy with it feel free to do it, G.

However I have two questions on my mind when it comes to Offices and HQs.
You're limited to one office per city, you're limited to offices that you built the HQ for and you're allowed to build multiple HQs, just not in the same city.

However, does this mean that one player can lock down all corporations himself by building all the HQs in different cities? That sounds like it could get unfair really quickly with how powerful these offices sound and with the fact that you've pretty much locked everyone else out of building offices of that sort.

If you conquer a city with a an office, will that office be destroyed or not? I also assume that if you conquer a city with a HQ you could build offices of that type as long as you control the city.

 

[Gazebo]

This all seems extremely complicated, but if you're happy with it feel free to do it, G.

However I have two questions on my mind when it comes to Offices and HQs.
You're limited to one office per city, you're limited to offices that you built the HQ for and you're allowed to build multiple HQs, just not in the same city.

However, does this mean that one player can lock down all corporations himself by building all the HQs in different cities? That sounds like it could get unfair really quickly with how powerful these offices sound and with the fact that you've pretty much locked everyone else out of building offices of that sort.

If you conquer a city with a an office, will that office be destroyed or not? I also assume that if you conquer a city with a HQ you could build offices of that type as long as you control the city.

I like that you decided that the offices sound powerful before I even posted specs for them. Whatever...

In any case, Corporations are going to be limited per player. Once you've built a corporate HQ, you can't build another. If you conquer a city with another HQ, that HQ will be destroyed (just like National Wonders). If you conquer a city with Corporate offices or Corporate buildings, those corporations will be destroyed (again, like National Wonders.

Also, I've updated the first post with a current WIP outline of the seven different corps (split food into two, as there were too many food monopolies in just one).

G

 

[Funak]

I like that you decided that the offices sound powerful before I even posted specs for them. Whatever...

If they are modern-era and requires a world-wonder to be built they are going to be powerful, or useless, but I'm going with powerful.


Just a suggestion here, but how about letting everyone build offices for corporation after the HQ have been built, but if you're not the HQ owner you suffer extra maintenance and the HQ owner gets extra money and possibly tourism for every office built by other civs? I understand that you have a completely different idea in mind, but this is how I would have handled it anyways, probably.

 

[Gazebo]

If they are modern-era and requires a world-wonder to be built they are going to be powerful, or useless, but I'm going with powerful.


Just a suggestion here, but how about letting everyone build offices for corporation after the HQ have been built, but if you're not the HQ owner you suffer extra maintenance and the HQ owner gets extra money and possibly tourism for every office built by other civs? I understand that you have a completely different idea in mind, but this is how I would have handled it anyways, probably.

Take a look at the WIP outline. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.

Also, I should note that I'm going to work on the Trade Helper LUA so that it'll be easy to see where you have corporate offices, and where you do not have corporate offices. I like to think of corporations, in this sense, as a 'national industry' (i.e. the industry your nation is most famous for), more than anything else. I'm also going to avoid Tourism being tied into this system, as there are already Tourism-related elements in the Trade Route system.

G

 

[Gazebo]

What happens when a civ loses monopoly bonus after building related wonder?

Nothing - once the Corporation Wonder is completed, that player keeps it. This may not make total sense, but it is an effort to help the AI, and to make the system as simple as possible.

G

 

[Funak]

Take a look at the WIP outline. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.

Also, I should note that I'm going to work on the Trade Helper LUA so that it'll be easy to see where you have corporate offices, and where you do not have corporate offices. I like to think of corporations, in this sense, as a 'national industry' (i.e. the industry your nation is most famous for), more than anything else. I'm also going to avoid Tourism being tied into this system, as there are already Tourism-related elements in the Trade Route system.

I'm completely fine with this I was just making a suggestion.

Here's another suggestion, you probably shouldn't use the Indonesia luxuries in this system, they are already powerful by themselves and they pretty much gives you free monopolies anyways.

 

[Gazebo]

I'm completely fine with this I was just making a suggestion.

Here's another suggestion, you probably shouldn't use the Indonesia luxuries in this system, they are already powerful by themselves and they pretty much gives you free monopolies anyways.

I think it's fine, honestly. Indonesia isn't the strongest Civ, and this rounds them out in the late-game.

G

 

[Funak]

I think it's fine, honestly. Indonesia isn't the strongest Civ, and this rounds them out in the late-game.

Your choice, just keep it in mind

 

[hewkii9]

Even if you can't build more than one Corporate Office, the Trade Route buildings are appealing as well. Does the recipient of those undestroyable buildings also gain the bonus per building, or is the building just a way to show where you have "franchises"?

 

[Gazebo]

Even if you can't build more than one Corporate Office, the Trade Route buildings are appealing as well. Does the recipient of those undestroyable buildings also gain the bonus per building, or is the building just a way to show where you have "franchises"?

I haven't decided yet. I think the Franchises should probably have some minor benefit, but nowhere near as beneficial as the 'office' or 'hq.' Probably a simple boost to yields in some fashion.

G

 

[Crimson13]

I didn't see of the bonus resources connected to any corporations, are they going to be added?

 

[Gazebo]

I didn't see of the bonus resources connected to any corporations, are they going to be added?

Nope, as they aren't Monopoly Resources.

G

 

[TeeInKay]

Wow that's intense.

 

[Brokenbone]

I'd never had a clue until now, when I went back to look at the big PDF changelog, that Strategic Resources (Iron, Horses etc.) were actually eligible for monopoly status too... although apparently at a reduced 25% threshold. Presumably it's counting "units" of the resource as opposed to tiles. I have never yet seen a game where there's a strategic monopoly thing going on, though I have definitely had games where I have more iron or horses than I could ever dream were necessary via that one Patronage policy that boosts the resource intake from allies. I do see in the same changelog document that you can't acquire monopoly bonus via trade, so getting 30 iron from a bunch of CS allies doesn't really mean anything to the monopoly system.

Still, if I understood the 25% scene correctly, doesn't that mean there could be up to three monopoly holders in the "strategic" realm? Never seen it once though so I doubt I'd see a game with three players at 25%+.

At least each of these corporations have a healthy mix of regular luxury resources (which I've occasionally gotten monopolies on) and strategic resources (which I've never gotten monopoly for) as the road to eligibility. Probably easier to get half the jade in the world than 25% of the iron to get the mining type company.

All looks pretty exciting! I am trying not to think in terms of half remembered CIV IV systems around this topic, or the more medieval flavored "guilds" system in popular mods like Rise of Mankind (they were kind of like corporations for the mid game I think with butchers and blacksmiths and stuff).

 

[Natura]

When a Trade Route is pillaged, it kills the pillaging unit.

This is the only bit so far that seemed a bit problematic. Units auto-pillage currently and baring some kind of notification the only way to tell whether or not a unit will be killed pillaging a trade route is keeping track of who has built that particular wonder. Furthermore it seems to me that "Trade units can't be pillaged" is far, far better than this perk, because the Trade route can't be shut down.

I do like the idea of Monopolies being expanded upon, and Corporations were something in Civ IV that never really worked very well, so seeing a proper version of them is very exciting.

My first suggestion is that, given this is Modern Age and onwards, modifying some existing Ideology policies would make it even more integrated into existing systems. A couple of Renaissance policy trees could possibly see a slight change too; Industry and Imperialism would both fit well with gearing a Civ up for the arrival of Corporations. Perhaps making it easier to gain Monopolies, further buffing trade routes and so forth. Without a couple of changes here, potentially Industry would become too strong since it's the tree that directly buffs Trade Routes, and Corporations are largely based around Trade Routes.

In the interest of making things easier for you to code Gazebo, and also in allowing players greater customization, would it be possible to use elements of the existing Religion structure for Corporations? Now, I'm not referring to Faith points, missionaries or Great Prophets. I mean that when players are eligible to found a Corporation, they're taken to a copy of the Found a Religion window. They can choose the name of their Corporation from the list you've provided, and can then customize what resources it will be based on, the HQ boons and office boons. The wonder would be automatically constructed the same way they are with your current Faith system Gazebo.

In this way, something familiar for the players can be used and it gives players more customization and control. I'm guessing, with absolutely zero knowledge of coding, that it might be easier for you too Gazebo, given that the architecture is already in-game.

 

[Gazebo]

This is the only bit so far that seemed a bit problematic. Units auto-pillage currently and baring some kind of notification the only way to tell whether or not a unit will be killed pillaging a trade route is keeping track of who has built that particular wonder. Furthermore it seems to me that "Trade units can't be pillaged" is far, far better than this perk, because the Trade route can't be shut down.

I do like the idea of Monopolies being expanded upon, and Corporations were something in Civ IV that never really worked very well, so seeing a proper version of them is very exciting.

My first suggestion is that, given this is Modern Age and onwards, modifying some existing Ideology policies would make it even more integrated into existing systems. A couple of Renaissance policy trees could possibly see a slight change too; Industry and Imperialism would both fit well with gearing a Civ up for the arrival of Corporations. Perhaps making it easier to gain Monopolies, further buffing trade routes and so forth. Without a couple of changes here, potentially Industry would become too strong since it's the tree that directly buffs Trade Routes, and Corporations are largely based around Trade Routes.

In the interest of making things easier for you to code Gazebo, and also in allowing players greater customization, would it be possible to use elements of the existing Religion structure for Corporations? Now, I'm not referring to Faith points, missionaries or Great Prophets. I mean that when players are eligible to found a Corporation, they're taken to a copy of the Found a Religion window. They can choose the name of their Corporation from the list you've provided, and can then customize what resources it will be based on, the HQ boons and office boons. The wonder would be automatically constructed the same way they are with your current Faith system Gazebo.

In this way, something familiar for the players can be used and it gives players more customization and control. I'm guessing, with absolutely zero knowledge of coding, that it might be easier for you too Gazebo, given that the architecture is already in-game.

It's actually easier for me to not use the religion system. The religious code in the DLL is...unique, to say the least.

This is the only bit so far that seemed a bit problematic. Units auto-pillage currently and baring some kind of notification the only way to tell whether or not a unit will be killed pillaging a trade route is keeping track of who has built that particular wonder. Furthermore it seems to me that "Trade units can't be pillaged" is far, far better than this perk, because the Trade route can't be shut down.

Agreed - I need something better for this one.
G

 

[TeeInKay]

How about for Hexxon Refineries, Inc. trade units generate Great Engineer points.

 

[Natura]

It's actually easier for me to not use the religion system. The religious code in the DLL is...unique, to say the least.

Ah, that's unfortunate. I really liked the idea of being able to customize your Corporation in the same way you customize religion.

 

[TeeInKay]

Yeah Natura it was a cool idea. I think It's be cool to have a limit of religions in map (there is) and a smaller limit of enhanced religions. I think its 6 on huge right now. It'd be cool if it were 8 (default players is 10) but only 5 could be enhanced. So ther would be 10 pantheons, 8 religions and 5 enhanced religions. Why? To add more granularity (I like that word, and the idea).

From Wikipedia:

Granularity is the extent to which a material or system is composed of distinguishable pieces or grains. It can either refer to the extent to which a larger entity is subdivided, or the extent to which groups of smaller indistinguishable entities have joined together to become larger distinguishable entities.

 

[Funak]

Yeah Natura it was a cool idea. I think It's be cool to have a limit of religions in map (there is) and a smaller limit of enhanced religions. I think its 6 on huge right now. It'd be cool if it were 8 (default players is 10) but only 5 could be enhanced. So ther would be 10 pantheons, 8 religions and 5 enhanced religions. Why? To add more granularity (I like that word, and the idea).

From Wikipedia:

Granularity is the extent to which a material or system is composed of distinguishable pieces or grains. It can either refer to the extent to which a larger entity is subdivided, or the extent to which groups of smaller indistinguishable entities have joined together to become larger distinguishable entities.

It sounds like a fun idea, but I can imagine the AI spreading garbage-religions all over the place, I'd rather have it stayed the way it is now that I've finally managed to convince Gazebo to reduce the number of religions