COTM 11: First Spoiler

[Markus5]

COTM 11 Open

4000bc And Away We Go! Move settler SE. Worker to cow. Pottery.
3800bc Warrior complete. Build curragh.
3650bc Fresh water
3000bc See a border. Popup: Indians, Mongols, Japanese, Celts, Carthage, Dutch, Vikings.
2800bc Learned CB from a goody hut. See the choke point to build cities.
2630bc Another border.
2590bc Contact Carthage. Not much to trade. They have Masonry, we have CB.
2270bc Contact Netherlands. We have nothing to trade. I see another border.
2150bc Contact Vikings. Trade CB for WC +10g. Trace CB to Carthage for Masonry + 10g. The extra gold will allow 100% research. Nick of time.
1990bc Contact Celts. We have nothing to trade.
1870bc Contact Japan. Trade Writing for Iron Working and Wheel. I see iron.
1725bc Contact Mongols. No trades. Haven't seen the Indians yet. Seoul is a 4/3 settler/archer factory.
1700bc India.
1625bc India has nothing we want.
1100bc Finished Philo. No slingshot. I think the Mongols got it. I knew I should have skipped CB and hoped to trade for it.
1050bc Dutch demand rebuffed. They declare war. Long march for them.
1000bc Crappy start.

Stats.
Score 142. 7th.
Culture 268. 1st.
8 cities.
6 workers.
7 warriors.
6 archers.
2 curraghs.


670bc Settled war with Dutch. Celts demand gold, get none, declare war.
A few turns later, the Mongols declare war.

When the Celts march in with 6 swords, I make peace and loose a city.

90bc (or so) I make peace with the Mongols. Trading peace + Monotheism (free tech) for peace + Feudalism.

 

[grs]

Build a stack of 1 warriors to upgrade with cash to Nedieval Infantry.

Well, lets hope you saved enough money for such an operation

 

[MangeTonChapeau]

Well, I wondered wether I should go for Predator, because I think I am not too good to exploit a weak AI, so the extra challenge wouldn't be too bad. But I finally went for Open because of the extra settler for selected civs...

I decided to found Seoul 2NE. Good choice as I didn't want any micromanagement and it was an easy 4t Settler factory. I think it's the first time I plan a 4t Settler factory, counting the shields and the fpt before improving the tiles (i usually use my intuition, but I may have been contaminated with the MM virus).
I tried to get contact and map as fast as possible, using more curraghs and warriors than usually. It didn't work ultra well anyway.

The expansion phase was a bit slow, I will probably have to plan a little bit more this phase (I tried to settle strategic locations first, but maybe the time lost sending the first settlers a little bit far isn't that good). I was able to do some good trade thanks to full contacts, even while retaining alpha and writing. I went for pottery, CoL, Philo, but was beaten by only 3 turns for Philo by the Celts in 1100 BC. Hard luck.
1000 BC : see attached image.
I decided to expand peacefully till I went to the Carthaginians and then take them down with a swordsmen SoD (warriors first).

Most important, I decided not to build a single defensive unit, having most of my cities empty. This is a really good strategy, even better when in Republic (but i stayed in monarchy the whole game, because I used the always at war with someone strategy).
When I had to go to war to get some oxygen land, I chose to take on the Vikings, because of the poor land owned by the Carthaginians and their numidian mercenaries.
The war went well, got rid of them without too much pain (but still much more than what I was used to when attacking with mounted units).

Then my attention was brought towards the Carthaginians, who dared to sneak attack me while I had set up a war against the Celts to prevent them from going to powerful. This time it didn't go very fast, I took only two cities before making peace. But then the Carthaginians attacked me again, but I was only gathering my forces to roll over them. The war went better when I entered MA (quite late as I had cut off my research to upgrade all the swordmen). I think next time I should upgrade the warriors faster by puting a stronger emphasis on linking iron fast. The upgrade is quite expensive and the income is low in AA.

 

[predesad]

For those who are not sure how to add a starting location in editor, startin glocations are considered overlays, just like rivers, goody huts, barb camps, etc. click on the overlay button at the top and select starting location from the list of overlays. then right click on the starting location once you have placed it and you can assign it to either a certain civ or a certain player #. I am 80% certain this is correct, but i didn't check the editor to verify so if i am wrong let me know

 

[ionimplant]

For those who are not sure how to add a starting location in editor, startin glocations are considered overlays, just like rivers, goody huts, barb camps, etc. click on the overlay button at the top and select starting location from the list of overlays. then right click on the starting location once you have placed it and you can assign it to either a certain civ or a certain player #. I am 80% certain this is correct, but i didn't check the editor to verify so if i am wrong let me know

thanks a lot~ i'll try that for next gotm.

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

COTM11 - open

Decided to move Settler SE after the worker discovered nothing much up north. Seoul founded in 3950bc. Build a couple of warriors to explore, then decided to build curraghs, as this would reveal more of the map sooner and give me more contacts. Built a granary and was able to turn Seoul into an 8-turn warrior, warrior, settler factory. I used the warriors for MP, but mainly to block the choke point and guard for barbs. Other cities built workers and libraries, and these workers worked on improving the terrain around Wonsan - which was going to house the great library - although at the time it thought it was building a palace.

QSC results

7 towns, 1 settler about to build another
7 workers
2 curraghs
16 warriors

d

The mongols then demanded tribute, and for a reason which I'm not sure I am allowed to say, I told them to go away and they declared war. I managed to pay Carthage to fight them, and thus ensured that no damage was done to me, and i pretty much ignored the whole war. Japan also tried the same a few turns later, but were also told to go away and thus ended up at war with me.

Then disaster struck - I was one turn away from completing the great library when I recieved news that the Japanese had built it. After much swearing I made the decision to use the shields for the statue of zeus. I would then build up a military for an attack on carthage - hopefully while his army was away fighting the mongols. I waited until i got peace with the mongols and Japanese, and the alliance with Carthage was over. I then attacked and took the border city of Sabratha. Unfortunately the attack then ground to a halt and the war became a stalemate. The unit support began to become too costly and no gain was being made against Carthage's mountain defence. I managed to get a few techs and gold for peace, and decided instead to focus on infrastructure before launching another attack. It took me a while to trade my way to the MA, so I entered the MA rather late in 400 AD.

d

 

[MiniMe]

I am reporting in for the 20K contest. I start a little late due to some milking attempt in gotm41 but here goes:

I dont use the capital for 20K, instead my second city. My 20K city is placed like second city of everyone, just north of the game.
Temple 2310BC
Colossus 1450BC
Library 1350BC

In the capital I started by building two curraghs (since it was so shield rich) and then the settler. I roaded the cow, then roaded towards the game which I chopped.

Something strange happened to the Dutch. They researched Literature as first tech after Writing. That has a good and a bad side. I could trade for it and build library early on but not at all guaranteed to build all wonders now. I thought I would have good control over the great library but now I have several civs building the Oracle and the Dutch (and I assume soon others) building Great Library.

I go first for ceremonial burial and then directly for Republic. I discover Philosophy with free Republic in 1225BC. Pull 5 turns anarchy. Sad I dont know how to reroll...

QSC stats:
6 cities
17 population
1 temple
1 library
1 colossus
1 granary
1 settler
9 workers
2 warriors
2 curraghs

I discover Currency in 825 and I can trade for Construction entering MA the same year. It is ironic that in this game when I would like to enter MA late I arrive there so easily. Maybe I need to instigate some wars soon to slow things down.

I am currently heading for the Great Library (cross your fingers, the Dutch started before me) and then with a Golden Age get SoZ and hopefully many more in the millenia to come

 

[ionimplant]

I go first for ceremonial burial and then directly for Republic. I discover Philosophy with free Republic in 1225BC. Pull 5 turns anarchy. Sad I dont know how to reroll...

i
can you give a little more detail about your culture city building sequence (and date)? or you haven't built much yet during the AA?

 

[solenoozerec]

Sad I dont know how to reroll...

You cannot do anything about it in C3C This bug was fixed, so that even if you new how to reroll, it would get you the same result.

For the PTW, however, it works the following way: When you get repubic, your science adviser asks you what to reaserch next. Instead, you need to click to see the big picture. The big picture will be F6 screen. Press F1 and revolt from there. Domestic advisor will tell you how long you will be in anarchy. If you are unhappy with what he tells, you need to close adviser screen and one of the advisers will say that we learned Republic, do you want to revolt? And although your current goverment is already anarchy you can revolt into anarchy second time and you could get shorter or longer anarchy instead.

Edit: Crossposted with Ionimplant

 

[MiniMe]

@solenoozerec
Thanks for the hints.

@ionimplant
Only built Temple, Colossus and Library during AA that ended in 825BC. I started temple once my 20K city was created and shortened the build time with 4 turns due to pop rushing. Temple was finished in 2310BC. Then started Colossus while joining some more workers into the city. I focused most of my efforts around the 20K city and finished colossus in 1450BC. Dutch had researched Literature just before and I traded for it with newfound CoL. I then finished Library before starting the Great Library. I heard rumours it might finish around 600BC...

 

[Methos]

Open Class
Goal: 20k Culture Victory

QSC Score 2,560

Initially I moved the worker N and the settler NE. I figured this way I could always move the settler N or S depending on what the worker found. I went ahead and decided to place my capitol to the N-NE of the starting location and placed my 20k city SE of the starting location.

Technology up to 1,000 BC:

Ceremonial Burial 3250 BC
Writing 1990 BC
Code of Laws 1325 BC
Philosophy 1075 BC
Republic 1075 BC (slingshot)

I wasn’t too happy with my choice of Ceremonial Burial as my first tech since I didn’t even build the temple in my 20k city until the MA. Unfortunately I didn’t keep track of tech research after the QSC mark.

I did okay with my culture builds though I missed out on the Great Library by several turns. I also failed to build some of the cultural improvements like a temple or library. Neither one was built until the MA. I did manage to build the Colossus (1700 BC), the Oracle (1050 BC), and the Statue of Zeus (550 BC). You’ll also notice in the screenshot that there is 1 turn left to finish the Hanging Gardens.

My main reason for not building either the temple or library was due to my being strapped for cash. I didn’t want to take the time to actually hand-build either one of them. I believe this may have been a mistake. I probably should have either stopped research to build up cash since this set my 20k date back further than it should be. Oh well, this is one way to learn.

 

[ionimplant]

My main reason for not building either the temple or library was due to my being strapped for cash. I didn’t want to take the time to actually hand-build either one of them. I believe this may have been a mistake. I probably should have either stopped research to build up cash since this set my 20k date back further than it should be. Oh well, this is one way to learn.

i think i also have this problem - thinking those non-wonder buildings can always wait till we finish the wonder grabbing phase. but i'm pretty sure this isn't right, at least for 20k regent game...

 

[bed_head7]

Definitely not right. Libraries for a scientific civ cost about 13s/cp/t, temples 30s/cp/t. Even the absolute best wonders, SoZ and Shakespeare's, cost 50s/cp/t.

 

[ionimplant]

Definitely not right. Libraries for a scientific civ cost about 13s/cp/t, temples 30s/cp/t. Even the absolute best wonders, SoZ and Shakespeare's, cost 50s/cp/t.

great that a 20K master join the discussion!
but there're always some difficult decisions to make... like when you don't have anything to build in the culture city and so start a prebuild (like after you get a temple but are researching for literature), and then you learn the tech that enables a cheap building... what's the best choice? i guess it is very hard to plan everything right to avoid this happening. and also you always need to worry about AI getting the wonder (esp from the cascade).

 

[bed_head7]

Well, my statement was directed at regent, where the cascade risk is minimal. At higher levels, sometimes the wonder will have to come first if there is serious danger of cascade and if the wonder is a biggie. Generally though, you'll want to have just completed a wonder upon learning a new tech. So, maybe you build temple (temples should always be one of the first 2-3 builds in a 20k city if capital, and the first build if in the second city), then Colossus, then Oracle. In that time, you will ideally have completed the Republic slingshot and right as you finish the Oracle, you should be finishing literature. If it looks like Oracle will come a little earlier than literature, work some higher food tiles for a little while to get the 20k city's size up (assuming it isn't already at size 12) or work some higher commerce tiles to get some extra cash and complete the tech faster. If literature is coming first, slow research down to accumulate money for the immediate rush of the library (in addition to moving in a warrior or something for disband).

This map had a special challenge for those who built SE of the starting position, as no fresh water meant that an aqueduct had to be built, and right in the time when it is generally most difficult to get enough money to rush the library and then colosseum and cathedral (or cathedral first depending on how the wonder building goes). I am curious how this affected research and build orders, but no one seems to have made mention of this.

Anyway, since a 20k empire is generally a bit smaller, take that extra time to do some planning so that the difficult decisions are minimized, and you don't have to wait to build a library until after Hanging Gardens or something.

 

[Sabre]

I made a straight run to the Republic slingshot (mistake in hindsight), then researched Literature, after which I turned off research to save up for Colosseum and Cathedral rushes (I was assuming I'd win the Great Library race). Two turns after Lit, Construction was researched by a rival civ and I trade Code of Laws for it. After my Library was built, I part-rushed my Aqueduct and immediately began joining Workers to help push my GLibrary build.

On a side-note did anyone else have all the neighboring civs already knowing our starting techs or was it just me? This threw a major wrench in my plans as it wasn't until 2230 that I finally contacted a distant civ that didn't know Alphabet and Bronze Working.

 

[ionimplant]

I made a straight run to the Republic slingshot (mistake in hindsight), ...

On a side-note did anyone else have all the neighboring civs already knowing our starting techs or was it just me? This threw a major wrench in my plans as it wasn't until 2230 that I finally contacted a distant civ that didn't know Alphabet and Bronze Working.

why do you think that's a mistake? for a 20K game, i feel since we're going to trigger our GA very early with so many wonders being built, it's better to get out of despotism ASAP.
i forgot what happened exactly in my game. construction was learned from a neighbor and Seoul only reached pop12 half way through the GA. (when my GA started, i only had 2 cities. it remained so most of my GA).

 

[Sabre]

It was a mistake in that by the time I got Ceremonial Burial I had to wait for my Colossus build to finish to get my Temple in. If I had known that I wouldn't be able to trade my starting techs until 2230 I would have made a quick CB run before starting for Republic. I became a Republic 960 years before my Golden Age, so I could have researched CB and still had time to research Republic.

 

[MiniMe]

I personally went for CB right away. Simply because I had decided to go 20K and I cannot gamble on meeting someone with CB as early as I need it. It's like I always start on Pottery when I have a settler factory to set up straight away.

My wonder city is not the capital but the second one, and that seems to be different from most others that so far gave reports on 20K. I did that for several reasons:
1. Capital population is limited to 6 until you get Construction (think most people settled without fresh water).
2. Capital makes with time a nice settler factory which makes it possible divert to empire building and warfare when 20K city doesnt need attention.
3. I saw that capital would have better production capacity, but hoped that potential leaders I would get could make up for it. I planned on leader farming for the small wonders.

 

[klarius]

Predator

Settled on the SE hill. Build warrior->granary->worker->settlers.
Next two cities built curragh first.
Science pottery->writing->CoL->philosophy slingshot to republic in 1300 - 4 turn anarchy.
Not much luck with the Ai. They researched math only in 1200 despite me distributing all techs available.
Entered MA in 775 by trading construction for currency, which I had to research myself.

3950BC settled Seoul
2710BC settled P'yongyang
2470BC settled Wonsan
2150BC settled Pusan
1990BC settled Namp'o
1830BC settled Cheju
1650BC settled Hyangsan
1450BC settled Ulsan
1350BC settled Inch'on and Pyongsong
1275BC settled Taejon
1200BC settled Paegam
1125BC settled Manp'o
1050BC settled Kaesong

14 cities, 38 pop
all techs except currency, construction and monarchy
3 granaries, 1 harbor, 1 library
4 warriors, 2 curraghs, 13 workers+1 slave, 1 settler
all contacts, no embassies
950BC settled Chonju
775BC settled Seriwu

I'm still undecided what to do with this game. Could end up as a 100k, if I have the stamina to go through it on this monster map.