COTM 15 Pre-game Discussion

[Redbad]

@wet

Here's a screeny from my testgame at 3000BC. 20K-city to the left, support-city to the right.

 

[Megalou]

I did a test-game on a random, food-rich start. Now I don't know whether predator is a real advantage or disadvantage. My test game ended with domination in 10 BC

playing with upgradable horsemen and normal monarch AI. I only had 7 horsemen to upgrade in 670 BC when I discovered Chivalry, but 7 are better than none. For conquest or spaceship, Open is probably easier. Not sure about domination.

 

[klarius]

Now I don't know whether predator is a real advantage or disadvantage.

I'm pretty sure predator is a big disadvantage.
Decreasing AI cost factor means also increasing the cost of research for the human player. That will cost quite a few turns on the republic slingshot and getting chivalry (I don't think the AI will be any help in MA even with a few more cities).
I will probably play open, the cost factor issue is just too much for me.

 

[DaveMcW]

- AI unit support and cost factor increased to Emperor level
- All AI start with an extra settler
- You are a sensible nation! You realize that there is no way to turn Horses into Elephants

Good catch klarius! Playing predator is basically playing on emperor...

I've long believed the only real way to increase difficulty is to increase cost factors, it's nice to see that finally being implemented.

 

[Megalou]

Decreasing (sic) AI cost factor means also increasing the cost of research for the human player.

Thanks. Is this common knowledge? Semantically I can't see any way that it can "mean" something so utterly different from itself.

The non-hacker

 

[klarius]

Thanks. Is this common knowledge? Semantically I can't see any way that it can "mean" something so utterly different from itself.

Well, I don't know how common the knowledge is.
The history behind it is, that originally the cost factor did decrease the tech cost for the AI in the same way as it decreases their shield and food cost.
Then it got noted that this made deity pretty unplayable, because the AI could launch a spaceship much too early. So Firaxis changed it to increase the tech cost for the human player instead and leave the cost for the AI constant. But it's still controled by the same variable in the editor, the AI cost factor.

 

[Own]

Doesn't the AI always have same tech costs as humans? I think the human and AI tech costs increase while the cost factor lowers. What makes the AI research fast is the free settlers for early money then the trade rate and ability to get more land.

 

[solenoozerec]

Thanks, Klarius.
Now I need to think about my intention to play predator again. I agree that it will delay Republic slingshot. However, I am not sure that it will delay Chivalry, since you will have more trade options for your republic and may enter MA earlier than in open class.
I am glad that you posted on this in advance, I totally missed this point.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Thanks, Klarius.
Now I need to think about my intention to play predator again.

I must also. I plan on going for SS, but don't know if which way will be better. More trade options or 'faster' research and more territory. Hmm....


EDIT: I'm really considering settler,worker,granary as my capital's build with granary as my second city's first build. My thinking is that with two visible cows, I can effectively get +8 food per turn with two cities, while only +6.67 effective food per turn with the granary; and the two city option happens quicker.

 

[solenoozerec]

I think I'll play predator anyway. It is a guess, but I am afraid that AI will be inefficient in removing jungles and in building their own cities. Of course, I could be wrong.

However I changed my mind about location for my second city. I may indeed consider E SE instead of E as suggested by Piu Freddo.
Reason: I plan to build a worker in the second city and this worker will be ready on the same turn in both locations, however with E SE I have a forest which I can use.

 

[LKendter]

Even after reading everything I still don't see an advantage for either cow...

Any more ideas before the game is posted tonight?

 

[AlanH]

Saves are now available here.

 

[Più Freddo]

Even after reading everything I still don't see an advantage for either cow...

Any more ideas before the game is posted tonight?

Sorry I'm late, game is out. Probably no advantage for either cow, but there are differences as pointed out by Redbad. One more difference is that three visible forests will go into an eastern city and one or two into a western.

 

[Ghostwind]

I havent played a GOTM in a couple of years. I've never played a COTM. I recall there used to be stuff one had to download unique to the GOTM to play each particular game. I've looked all over the site and I can't find anything like this for the COTM's.

I did find a resource pack for SGOTM, and I downloaded it because I plan to play that as well. Is there anything I need except the 1.22v patch to play COTM15?

Thanks

~Ghostwind

 

[azzaman333]

nooooooooo

 

[Kuningas]

Which one is correct? Former quote from page 1 and latter quote from GOTM site.

Predator class equalisers:
- AI unit support and cost factor increased to Emperor level- All AI start with an extra settler
- You are a sensible nation! You realize that there is no way to turn Horses into Elephants
(that is, Horsemen won't upgrade to War Elephants. Both will upgrade to Cavalry, however).

Predator Class Equalizing Obstacles:
The game features for Predator Class Games have been raised to provide the following obstacles:

AI extra units: All AI races start with an extra settler.
AI unit support: Increased to Emperor level.
Your UU, the War Elephant: Can't be created by upgrading horses.

 

[Karasu]

The former is correct.
We must have lost a piece when moving it to the GOTM site... sorry about that.

 

[a space oddity]

I havent played a GOTM in a couple of years. I've never played a COTM. I recall there used to be stuff one had to download unique to the GOTM to play each particular game. I've looked all over the site and I can't find anything like this for the COTM's.

I did find a resource pack for SGOTM, and I downloaded it because I plan to play that as well. Is there anything I need except the 1.22v patch to play COTM15?

Thanks

~Ghostwind

Welcome back! No, you don't need anything else but the 1.22 patch to play a COTM.

 

[AlanH]

The former is correct.
We must have lost a piece when moving it to the GOTM site... sorry about that.

My fault. I copied and pasted without due care and attention. Apologies, I've fixed it.

 

[Ghostwind]

Welcome back! No, you don't need anything else but the 1.22 patch to play a COTM.

Ok cool. Thanks!

nooooooooo

Huh?

~Ghostwind