COTM11: Final Spoiler

[Darkness]

My spaceship was launched in 1320 which seems like a good date to me – after all, it should only be a couple hundred years behind DaveMcW.

Very nice result Chamnix!

I wouldn't worry about Dave too much though... He hasn't submitted yet and if the end-of-the-month deadline comes too close, he might go for an ultra-fast diplo win, completely outclassing Kuningas and me....

 

[Chamnix]

Very nice result Chamnix!

Thanks. I'm just assuming DaveMcW is going for space since he lacks that award.

After reading the first two spoilers, I was thinking I made a mistake in not going for diplo, but I see now that I wouldn't have been able to pull out that award either. In any case, I think I picked up a few new tricks from reading the spoilers of the players who also attempted research-based victory conditions, so hopefully I'll be able to challenge you guys in the not-too-distant future.

 

[Jove]

That sounds like a later save than the last autosave. No problem with that

Good. I know how strict the forum is against reloading. Too bad it isn't allowed to reject a victory- with SirPleb dropping out of the milk race, I might have had a chance!

 

[MeteorPunch]

Good. I know how strict the forum is against reloading. Too bad it isn't allowed to reject a victory- with SirPleb dropping out of the milk race, I might have had a chance!

I thought we weren't allowed to reload after going over the dom limit to pursue a different victory?

EDIT: Did you submit a histograph or domination victory?

 

[Jason Fliegel]

btw- my submission is a recreation. Originally I turned off my comuter, before saving, when I saw I'd gone over the limit. The recreation didn't change my score at all. If it isn't acceptable, well, I'm not trying to pull a fast one!

That reminds me -- I had an F3 crash at one point and had to load the autosave from the begining of the turn. I assume that's OK, but I don't want to be accused of hiding the ball.

 

[denyd]

Jason: That's normally ok. I had to reload a pair of times during this one due to the helping hands of a 3-year old. I left my system running while I went to change the laundry and little helping hands got a hold of the keyboard. The first time was in about 2500 BC and when I got to the system about 12 turns had passed.

Looking at the results so far, I guess I'm about in the middle of the pack of 20K players with an 1828 AD finish. I'm hoping my Jason score (4688) might help pull me up the standings list.

 

[AlanH]

The odd crash happens, unfortunately. If they, or baby fingers, happen too often then we have problems assessing your entries which helps no one and delays results publication. So I strongly recommend anyone suffering multiple unprovoked incidents per game either to find an alternative way to play to avoid the bio-hazard, or to ask for help to fix a technical problem.

I have to say my Mac system runs Civ3 very cleanly these days, and reloads are only due to enforced system reboots (system software updates, that is), or occasional time-out's to load up other games such as our SGOTM. Give Civ3 enough RAM and disk, and good video and sound drivers, and I think it's pretty solid. Only you can tell me if that's also true of Windows

 

[AlanH]

I thought we weren't allowed to reload after going over the dom limit to pursue a different victory?

EDIT: Did you submit a histograph or domination victory?

Correct. You can't reload to change any outcome, whether that's a single decision, or a battle, or the game victory condition.

Jove said he submitted the save with the same result as he had when he hit domination first time.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Correct. You can't reload to change any outcome, whether that's a single decision, or a battle, or the game victory condition.

Jove said he submitted the save with the same result as he had when he hit domination first time.

My bad. I missed his third post, somehow.

 

[denyd]

“The time is now for Carthage to move solely to the history books” Wang Kon said to his generals and as quickly as that the Korean troops overran the Carthaginian defenders in Hannibal’s final three cities and it was over.

At the dedication of Smith’s Trading Company in Pyongsong, Wang spoke to the crowd of a time of peace and prosperity. The next five hundred years were exactly as he spoke. The completion of Shakespeare’s Theater, Universal Suffrage, Theory of Evolution, Intelligence Agency and Wall Street in Seoul (and a disappointing loss to Bergen by 2 turns for Newton’s) were the major highlights of those centuries, with only a satisfying rebuff of a Celtic demand for Steam Power to break up the monotony of building and railing the entire nation.

The year 1580 AD would be a memorable one as the completion of the Hoover Dam in Cheju, was accompanied by a Viking landing of troops in Korean territory. Wang Kon rose to address his advisors “Gentlemen, up until this moment I have been keeping a development project from you. I have been working with our scientists to develop an armored, motorized fighting machine, which we have dubbed ‘The Tank’. With this incursion by Ragnar’s troops we may get a chance to see if our work was successful. I have arranged meetings in the morning with the other ambassadors and will be arranging mutual protection pacts and then will be meeting with the Viking ambassador to discuss trade agreements and ask for removal of his troops. In the meantime, I want to fortify Carthage (the site of the landing) in case talks go sour”.

After a successful set of morning meetings, Wang was confident that his meeting the Ambassador Johansson would be successful, whichever way it turned. The gold he received (plus an updated map and a promise of 95g per year) were welcome reward for the knowledge of Electronics (which he had earlier traded to the other nations) and he was reassured that the Viking troops were merely on a training exercise. As expected, the potential gold that Ragnar had promised, would not be arriving, as the exercise the ambassador spoke of, turned into an attack on Carthage, however the recently reinforced infantry garrison easily defeated the medieval troops. The attack triggered a world war with all but Japan and Mongolia declaring on the Vikings and with a Mongol attack on India, Korean was obligated to declare on the Mongols, so that only Japan was at peace. With a Mongol attack on a Korean Crusader, the Dutch and Celts declared on the Mongols. Soon Japan would attack the Celts and the world divided into two warring alliances, the Celts, Dutch, Indians joined Korea against the Mongols, Japan and Vikings. This was really a war of the haves versus have-nots as the Korean side all had cavalry and infantry, while the other side was limited to riflemen, longbows and Samurai.

During a particularly bloody siege of the Mongol city of Boda, a Koran Ancient Cavalry unit defeated a Mongolian Longbow and the First Great Leader of Korea was born in 1625 AD. The battle for the Korean city of Chinje was one of the few where the results went against Wang and the city was burned to the ground and a Mongol Great Leader was born. A stack of Korean Crusaders quickly killed the barbarous invaders and their newly spawned leader. While Seoul was busy constructing the United Nations, the Heroic Epic and the Pentagon, Cheju built Battlefield Medicine and Taejon built the Military Academy and began producing tank armies. Meanwhile the Korean tanks were busy capturing Viking, Japanese and Mongol cities until in 1756 AD the Vikings were no more and in 1760 AD, the Mongols were destroyed. Later that same year the Celts captured the final Japanese city and the world was once again at peace. In 1780 AD Seoul completed the Apollo Program and began work on SETI and it looked like Wang was nearing the end of his reign in a peaceful manner.

In 1800 AD after nearly 1500 years of a rite of passage with the Celts, Brennus finally gave in to temptation and abuse that privilege and seized the Korean city of Hippo. For the last time war had come to the planet. Wang quickly enlisted the Dutch & Indians as allies and began taking Celtic cities. A fourth and fifth great leader were born during this time, but commanding tank armies was there only task at this time. Twenty Celtic cities had fallen and Seoul had just completed the Cure for Cancer, when in 1828 AD, Brother Bede appeared to Wang and delivered a message from Mursilis. “You have performed well Wang. The city of Seoul is the cultural envy of all. Please pack up your suitcase. You will be transported home in the morning.”

[Editors note: 20K Cultural Victory in 1830 AD – Firaxis score 2848 – Jason score 4688]

 

[solenoozerec]

If they, or baby fingers, happen too often then...

...ask for help to fix a technical problem.

This way we may end up with handicuped kids
(I prefer not to play when my kid is around or not asleep )

 

[Methos]

Open Class
20k Culture Victory (1888 AD)
Firaxis score: 1877
Jason score: 3159

The game went fairly well for me, though I made a lot of mistakes. Believing that war would help slow things down I participated in quite a few. One problem I had was every time I got within attacking distance of Carthage they asked for peace and I’d agree. I finally got sick of it and took Carthage plus kicked them off the mainland. They went the rest of the game with two cities on the islands.

I think I was at war with just about everyone, though typically nothing much happened. I made the mistake of always getting the Celts to back me whenever the Mongols got antsy. At first the Mongols were the bully on the block but that quickly changed to the Celts.

As I was getting closer to the end of the game I switched to peace and planned to ride the rest of the game out. This worked great until I made a major mistake about 30 turns from victory. Getting bored of the game and just wanting to finish I set everything to wealth and just began hitting the enter button.

About 15 or so turns from victory Netherlands declared war on me, though I wasn’t worried. For fun I attacked them briefly and the Celts joined in without my asking. With 10 turns left the Celts declared war on me and I knew I was screwed. Their invading force, which came in on the choke point above where the Carthagians started, consisted of around 50 or so MA.

At this point I knew I had messed up by switching to wealth. My army wasn’t as big as it should have been nor was I capable of withstanding a major assault. Realizing this and knowing I only had 10 turns left I decided to instead throw everything at them in order to prolong their invasion. I figured by doing this I could keep them away from Pyongyang which was at the opposite end of my territory. I also sent a small invasion force into their territory hoping it would get them to turn back. It did, though only deterred them for 2 turns. At turn 8 they were back and began their invasion once again.

The first city they took was where the uranium was, so that was gone. They also caused me to lose another resource, though I can’t recall which. Basically I was back to creating a less technological force in order to hold them back.

At this point I knew I would win, the AI was too slow. I was also pretty sure I would only lose a few cities. I believe it was 3 in all. Either way I won in 1888 and was very happy to finally end this game. I really enjoyed it but man did I make a lot of mistakes.

In 1884 I pressed the F1 key at the beginning of turn and the game crashed, that about freaked me out. Plus I find it odd that the Celts were close to destroying my civilization yet I still won and would be considered a civ that would live on forever. About another 20 turns and I wouldn’t even be a civilization anymore.

 

[Peepers]

v1.22, COTM11 Korea, Predator (barbs fixed, though not relevant to this game)

I haven't posted in the other two spoilers, so my entire report will be here.

What started out as a 100K culture attempt evolved into a Diplo win (AD1485, 3336 Firaxis and 6980 Jason). I thoroughly enjoyed the game. Some of the particulars and salient points are listed below.

* Founded Seoul 1 SE of starting mountain, basically to retain access to the animals and get a bit of defense from the hill. Also, this port would only be accessible by coast in 1 spot, so I could be more secure vs Berserkers, who never actually bothered me the whole game. Ragnar and I were buddies. I know that a capitol this far south wouldn't optimize corruption effects, and I very soon discovered the pond to the northwest, but what are you going to do?

* At 1000BC I had: 7 towns totalling 20 pop, 14g and Repub in 14t, not a resource to my name, 4 settlers, 5 workers (I know, not nearly enough , but I was spending pop on the settlers), 12 warriors and an archer. On the seas I sported a galley and 2 curraghs. No wonders either built or under construction. I had met all other tribes and had embassies with Celts and Carthage. The Dutch and I were at war, which I allowed for the happiness effect, and which came to naught.

* Never started any conflicts, but was at war with Dutch twice (the second time, I sent them packing ), the Mongols in the late industrial, and near the end of the game, India. This last was the most regrettable conflict, because I would rather have a hand in their deep coffers at that time than a bunch of corrupted cities. With their 'sneak' attack -- which I saw from a mile away -- they were weaseling out of almost 300gpt. Fortunately, the conflict only gave me a chance to leader-farm and to ingratiate my other neighbors. Note: In all but my very first conflict with the Dutch, I had the resources at hand to ally any or all other tribes to punish my agressor's betrayal. In that, I got lucky or was judicious enough not to duly unbalance the playing field, as no other tribe became a giant.

* I sheepeishly concede that I didn't have the patience to continue with the 100K attempt once I got into the ModAge. As mentioned above, the remaining tribes were pretty much enamoured of me in the India war, and the vote reflected that (India abstain, Celts for themselves, all others for the Kong ). I could have been more assiduous with my culture buildings, as I avoided the colusseum due to the extra expense, until well into the industrial age. I ended with 48,360 culture and +701/t to the Vikings 19,584. Next time I run for 100K, I will execute a somewhat tighter city placement, and work the AI research ability a bit more, instead of blunting their research with expensive trades. I will consider gifting techs much more often as well.

* As scientific freebies, I got Eng, Steam( ) and Ecol. I netted Lit from Philo, Elec and Flight from the ToE. This last was gratifying on my part, as my tech lead allowed me to hold off on the ToE until I could slingshot to the ModAge, so I got those freebies and Ecol on the same turn (AD1350) .

* GA came during the Mongol war. I had only built 2 Hwach'a, and they were positioned on the spice isle to NW of Vikings. Temujin landed and redlined a Keshik on my defending mace, and so I started the GA next turn, in AD640. Since I went Steam...Elec...Rep Parts right away in IA, I had upgraded those fire carts before the end of the GA. It was a brief but shining moment for the Korean empire .

* By the end of the game, I had built 10 GWs, and captured two (SoZ and MoM in Amsterdam). I concentrated on the high-culture wonders, such as Bach's, Shake's, Newton's, Copernicus' and Internet. I built no AA projects.

This game was enjoyable, and the map was clever . Thanks to all who contributed in the set-up, and also thanks for Regent -- it is nice to downgrade once in awhile.

I could go for a religious tribe next. How about Celts?

 

[gskyes]

Medieval age report

I entered the Industrial age sometime between 1100 and 1200AD. My free tech was Medicine. At this point in the game Scandanavia had been eliminated and Carthage had 1 city left. All the other civs were still in this one. Japan and Mongols continued to fight each other until the Celts attacked Japan's weak border with calvary. They took about 3 cities from Japan and then Japan signed peace with both of them. By this time I had hooked up horses and finally started building some calvary of my own. Carthage did the typical OCC AI thing and declared war on the Celts, eliminating them from the game 2 turns later.

Once I had replacable parts I was ready to go back to war. Celts seemed like the best target since I shared a border with them in the north and they were the most powerful AI. While building up for war, Celts and Mongols signed a MPP. I allied myself with Japan. Predictably, Netherlands and India signed a MPP shortly afterwards. I irritated the Celts until a failed espionage attempt forced them to declare war on me, starting world war 1 (actually the only world war). Netherlands was easy to buy into a MA against the Celts, so everybody was in this war. I took most of Celtic lands and cut a line through Mongol lands. In Celtia, I used mixed stacks of artillery and H'wachas, which worked really well but was slow, so I switched to just using artillery and calvary later. Mongols weren't faring well against Japan and India so I rushed in with calvary to take what I could. I did get their capital with the Pyramids.

I declared war on Japan next since I had their land surrounded. I made short work of them finishing them off just after getting modern armor. A couple border expansions later and I was at the domination limit.

Final stats:
Domination Victory 1655AD
Firaxis Score 3691
Jason Score 6571

My empire and power graph:

This certainly wasn't a fast or high scoring victory, but that wasn't my aim. I enjoyed this game and it was good to get back into the GOTM again. Getting horses and the SoZ was probably the key to a fast military victory in this game. However, for those of us not interested in a speedy victory, it was lots of fun with stacks of artillery and foot soldiers.

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

Open class.

The Industrial ages started with the world at war, after the Celts had declared on me and I had persuaded the rest of the world to ally with me. During this war I just kept my troops for defense and went leader farming on the border, the celts were never a threat as they faced war from all sides.

In 1320 ad the one city civillization of carthage foolishly declared war on me, and was duly destroyed a turn later. I gained a leader which I used to rush the palace in Carthage. I then spent the rest of the IA improving my terrain and infrastructure, including building TOE and Hoover Dam.

The modern age started in 1730 ad in the same way as the IA had with the celts resuming their war with me over a spy scandal, 70 years later the celts were destroyed and I was clearly now the dominant power - ahead in tech, and with only the mongols capable to putting up a decent fight. Usually I would have carried on with war and gone for domination, but I am busy this week I decided to go for the spaceship as it would take less time to achieve. I managed to launch the ship in 1868, but not before I had some fun with the mongols, who had been annoying all game. The turn before the ship was to be launched I ROP raped him with a dozen nukes.

Here are the shots

Before Nuke

After Nuke

What I want to know is whether doing this reduced my score?

 

[AlanH]

What I want to know is whether doing this reduced my score?

Your Jason score is based on your Firaxis score with a modified victory bonus.

Nuking your friends has no effect on the victory bonus unless it changes the victory condition.

Firaxis score is based on territory and population, and is the cumulative average of your per-turn scores over the whole game. Nuking your friends has no effect on your territory or population, and in any case, the score effect of anything you do in the last turn of your game would be diluted by being averaged out over your total turns.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Nuking your friends...

I don't think the mongols are anyone's "friends."

 

[a space oddity]

Making my first and probably last attempt at Histographic victory, I noticed my Firaxis points gained per turn went down every few years:

1818 +35
1900 +29
1950 +25
1975 +23
2000 +20
2025 +19
2050 +16

I thought I'd be gaining in points but I guess I'm wrong. I've never looked for a good Histographic victory writeup though, so could someone explain why the points decrease.

It's indeed normal in a histo game to see your score increase decreasing.
It happens because the score is computed using the mean values. The firaxis score of any turn comproised of land ownership = number of tiles minus ocean tiles and number of happy & content citizens and specialists. Since you at some point can't expand without triggering domination the increase is reduced.

 

[Jason Fliegel]

Your Jason score is based on your Firaxis score with a modified victory bonus.

Nuking your friends has no effect on the victory bonus unless it changes the victory condition.

Firaxis score is based on territory and population, and is the cumulative average of your per-turn scores over the whole game. Nuking your friends has no effect on your territory or population, and in any case, the score effect of anything you do in the last turn of your game would be diluted by being averaged out over your total turns.

Does the use of Nukes create unhappiness within your cities? I assume everyone declared on Drugged_Unholy, which may have caused people to drop from happy or content to "Stop the aggression against our mother country." I've never been quite clear on how foreigners react when you go to war with their home civs.

Anyway, as AlanH points out, having 1 turn of additional territory/additional unhappiness will have a marginal effect on your entire score, which is averaged out over 350-or-so turns by 1868.

 

[CKS]

PTW Open, 20 K

Finally I have a 20K game where I don't run out of culture buildings halfway through the industrial age. Mostly, however, I think this is not due to my improving but to my culture city having a poor shield output and the regent AI not being able to keep up with my research.

I enter the IA in 850, getting nationalism as my free tech, and start on steam power. I don't have any iron yet, as Carthage settled a city on my iron while I was securing the ivory. I've been making do without it, but I need it for factories and railroads now. I send a settler up to some free iron between the Japanese and the Celts. I'm at war with the Dutch, but so is everyone else, so I guard my settler with an ancient cavalry and it arrives unscathed. Roading up to the city takes forever, though so I trade for iron for a while.

I learn steam power in 930. We have coal already hooked up, so I begin railroading like mad. In 1230 Sabratha finally flips to us, and we have our local iron. The same turn Carthage loses Leptis Magna and the reduced cultural boundaries give us rubber.

I trade techs for lots of money and luxuries every 20 turns throughout the IA and MA. Usually I don't do this, as I'm afraid of losing my tech advantage, but the AI remained nicely behind. This let me put off building the theory of evolution for a while, and I used it for electronics and flight. I got Fission as my free tech. Three turns later, my next tech deal was selling scientific method. I enjoyed being ahead in this game. (Regent is more my level than emperor.)

I ended the Dutch war uneventfully early in the IA. The rest of the world continues to squabble, so I expand into the areas they demolish. In 1190 the Celts demand nationalism. I'm currently expanding in their area, and I haven't protected new cities, so I give it to them. In 1440 they don't demand anything, they just declare on me. They take a couple of cities, but it ensures their doom. They have riflemen, I have tanks. I rush a bunch of tanks and ally the Dutch and Japanese against them, so that I won't end up fighting either of them. I don't care about anyone else because geography will be on my side; they won't be able to reach me before my military has built up enough to crush them easily.

I kill zillions of spearmen, swordsmen, MI, and longbows, and a few riflemen with my tanks. Finally in 1480 I get my first military great leader and use it to make a tank army. I slowly tromp through the Celts, doing a little leader fishing (and getting 2 more), and protecting their last city so that they don't die before my alliances expire.

I figure to wait out my deals before attacking anyone else, now that I have tanks and they don't, but the Dutch have other plans. They declare and I wipe them out. The Indians get dragged in on the side of the Dutch, so I wipe them out, too. Finally the Mongols declare on me and I chop them up until a few turns before the end of the game. Thanks to the idiot AI, I acquire a lot of land, ending up just short of the domination limit.

Culture-wise, P'yongyang slowly builds everything in sight. After leaving the Middle Ages I build: Newton's (940), Shakespeare's (1110), Bach's (1220), the FP (1255), Smith's (1365), ToE (1410), the UN (1490), a research lab (1495), the Heroic Epic (1515), Wall Street (rushed with a MGL, 1520), the Military Academy (1550), Battlefield Medicine (rushed 1555), the Internet (1625), Apollo (rushed in 1635), Longevity (1705), Cure for Cancer (1762), the Pentagon (1772), the Intelligence Agency (rushed in 1774), and SETI (1794). I hit 20K as we turned over to 1800. Besides culture I built a factory, a coal plant, and a nuclear plant, ending up with 100 uncorrupted shields per turn. (I built Hoover dam someplace else, so the coal plant got sold later.)

I ended up with 3190 Firaxis, 5373 Jason. Overall, I was pretty happy. I think that this is the earliest I've gotten to 20K by a fairly large margin, so I feel good about that, even though it was on regent.